0001
 1                   JUDICIAL MERIT SELECTION
 2                           COMMITTEE
 3   
 4                   EVALUATION OF CANDIDATES
 5                     BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS
 6                        OPEN SESSION
 7          PUBLIC HEARINGS ON JUDICIAL QUALIFICATIONS
 8   
 9   
10                    MONDAY, APRIL 13, 2009
11                 ROOM 209, GRESSETTE BUILDING
12                   COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA
13   
14                    COMMENCING AT 9:49 A.M.
15   
16   
17    REPORTED BY:   SHERI L. BYERS,
                     REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL REPORTER
18   
19   
20   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        COMPUSCRIPTS, INC.
21             A Full-Service Court Reporting Agency
                       Post Office Box 7172
22                Columbia, South Carolina 29202
                           803-988-0086
23                        1-888-988-0086
24                    www.compuscriptsinc.com
25   
0002
 1    MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE:
 2           SENATOR GLENN F. MCCONNELL, CHAIRMAN
 3           REPRESENTATIVE F.G. DELLENEY, JR., VICE CHAIRMAN
 4           SENATOR ROBERT FORD
 5           PROFESSOR JOHN P. FREEMAN
 6           JOHN DAVIS HARRELL
 7           SENATOR JOHN M. "JAKE" KNOTTS, JR.
 8           AMY JOHNSON MCLESTER
 9           REPRESENTATIVE ALAN D. CLEMMONS
10           REPRESENTATIVE DAVID J. MACK, III
11           H. DONALD SELLERS
12   
13    COUNSEL PRESENT:
14           JANE O. SHULER, CHIEF COUNSEL
15           BRADLEY S. WRIGHT
16           PATRICK G. DENNIS
17           BONNIE B. GOLDSMITH
18           ANDREW T. FIFFICK, IV
19           J.J. GENTRY
20           E. KATHERINE WELLS
21           NANCY COOMBS
22   
23                 (INDEX AT REAR OF TRANSCRIPT)
24   
25   
0003
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll call to order the
 2    meeting of the Judicial Screening Commission.  The
 3    Judicial Merit Selection Commission is called pursuant
 4    to Chapter 19 and Title 2, South Carolina Code of Laws,
 5    requiring the review for candidates of judicial office.
 6              The function of the commission is not to
 7    choose between candidates but rather to declare whether
 8    or not the candidates who offer for positions on the
 9    bench, in our judgment, are qualified to fill the
10    positions they seek.  The inquiry we undertake is a
11    thorough one.  It is centered around the commission's
12    nine evaluative criteria and involves a complete
13    personal and professional background check on every
14    candidate.
15              These public hearings are convened for the
16    purpose of screening candidates for the following
17    positions:  One vacancy on the Supreme Court; two
18    vacancies on the Circuit Court; two vacancies on the
19    Family Court; and two vacancies on the Administrative
20    Law Court.
21              For today, we will screen one vacancy on the
22    Supreme Court and one vacancy on the Circuit Court.  It
23    is on the advice of counsel that I understand we need
24    to go into executive session for the purposes of taking
25    care of a couple of legal matters.
0004
 1              SEN. KNOTTS:  So moved.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Do I hear a
 3    second?
 4              REP. FORD:  Second.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  With a move and a second,
 6    we'll move into any discussions.
 7              Again, no discussion.  We will go immediately
 8    into a vote.  All in favor please say "aye."
 9              (Members respond.)
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Opposed by nay.
11              Ayes have it.  And the veil will be dropped.
12              (The members went into executive session at
13    9:50 a.m.)
14              (The hearing was continued under a separate
15    restricted record.)
16                       *  *  *  *  *  *
17   
18   
19   
20   
21   
22   
23   
24   
25   
0028
 1              (The members came out of executive session at
 2    10:25 a.m.)
 3              MS. SHULER:  At the very outset, I would like
 4    to offer and have made exhibits to the record the
 5    following.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Laurie, you all need to open
 7    or let them know we're in open session.  I don't want
 8    them to --
 9              Let me go back on the record and state we
10    have lifted the veil.  We are back in open session, and
11    staff has been instructed to open the door.  And the
12    door is now open.  And we are back in the public
13    session.  So with that, I'll now call on Ms. Shuler.
14              MS. SHULER:  At the outset, I would like to
15    offer and have made exhibits to the record the
16    following:  The Citizens Committee report for the
17    Spring 2009 from the Midlands Citizens Committee, the
18    Pee Dee Citizens Committee and the Upstate Citizens
19    Committee.
20              Also, I would like to offer and have made
21    exhibits to the record the following:  The Citizens
22    Committee report for the Upstate from the Fall of 2008
23    are Mr. Shealy, Mr. Stillwell, and Ms. McMahan, and the
24    Fall of 2007 for Judge Few, as well as the Low Country
25    Citizens Committee report for the Fall of 2008 for
0029
 1    Mr. Holmes and the Fall of 2007 for Judge Jefferson.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  I'd ask are there any
 3    objections or concerns to be raised at this point?
 4              Hearing none, I will ask at this time that
 5    the Midlands Citizen Committee report, the Pee Dee
 6    Citizens Committee and the Upstate Citizens Committee,
 7    Citizens Committee report for the Spring of 2009, the
 8    Upstate Citizens Committee reports for the Fall of 2008
 9    and Fall of 2007, the Low Country Citizens Committee
10    reports for the Fall of 2007 and Fall 2008 be marked as
11    exhibits and entered into the public hearing record
12    without objection.
13              (EXHIBIT 1, Committee Reports, admitted.)
14              (Judge Hearn enters the room.)
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We have before
16    us as our first candidate this morning the Honorable
17    Kaye G. Hearn.
18              Would you be so kind as to raise your right
19    hand.
20              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
21    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
22              JUDGE HEARN:  I do.
23              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Good to have you here with
24    us.
25              Have you had an opportunity to review the
0030
 1    personal data questionnaire?
 2              JUDGE HEARN:  I have.
 3              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is it accurate or does it
 4    need any additions or deletions?
 5              JUDGE HEARN:  I think it's accurate.  There
 6    may be one addition that we need to make, Ms. Shuler,
 7    regarding the -- I think it was the trip to Amelia
 8    Island with the Defense Trial Attorneys.  I initially
 9    forgot to list that.  I was down there as a speaker,
10    and I forgot to list that.  And we added it later.
11              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Do you object to our making
12    this summary a part of the record of your sworn
13    testimony, making that change for you?
14              JUDGE HEARN:  I do not.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.  It will be done
16    at this point in the transcript.
17              (EXHIBIT 2, Personal Data Questionnaire of
18    Kaye G. Hearn, admitted.)
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  The Judicial Merit Selection
20    Commission has thoroughly investigated your
21    qualifications for the bench.  Our inquiries focus on
22    our nine evaluative criteria.  It's included a survey
23    of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your
24    application materials, a verification of your
25    compliance with state ethics laws, a search of
0031
 1    newspaper articles in which your name appears, a study
 2    of previous screenings, a check for economic conflicts
 3    of interest.
 4              We have received no affidavit filed in
 5    opposition to your election, no witnesses are present
 6    to testify.  So I would ask if you have any brief
 7    opening statements you would like to make at this time.
 8    If not, I would turn you over to Counsel.
 9              JUDGE HEARN:  I would just like to thank the
10    commission for this opportunity to appear in front of
11    you today and for your service, and apologize to you
12    for my voice.  It's a combination of the pollen and a
13    very lengthy choir practice last Tuesday preparing for
14    Holy Week, and I apologize to you.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.
16              MS. SHULER:  Good morning, Judge Hearn.
17              JUDGE HEARN:  Good morning.
18              MS. SHULER:  I think you have somebody
19    special with you today.  Would you like to introduce
20    her to the commission?
21              JUDGE HEARN:  I would.  This is my daughter
22    Kathleen.  She is 20 years old and a junior at Wofford,
23    and she was able to be here with me today.
24              MS. SHULER:  Thank you.
25              Judge Hearn, you already stated that you had
0032
 1    an amendment earlier to your personal data
 2    questionnaire.  Are there any other additional
 3    amendments that you would like to make at this time to
 4    your PDQ?
 5              JUDGE HEARN:  I don't believe so.
 6              MS. SHULER:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
 7    would ask that Judge Hearn's PDQ be entered as an
 8    exhibit into the hearing record.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Is there any
10    objection?
11              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
12    will be entered into the record at this time.
13              (EXHIBIT 3, Personal Data Questionnaire of
14    Kaye G. Hearn, admitted.)
15              MS. SHULER:  Judge Hearn, you also have
16    before you a sworn statement you provided with detailed
17    answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial
18    conduct, statutory qualifications, office
19    administration and temperament.
20              Are there any amendments you would like to
21    make at this time?
22              JUDGE HEARN:  No, that's correct.  Thank you.
23              MS. SHULER:  Mr. Chairman, I would ask that
24    Judge Hearn's sworn statement be entered as an exhibit
25    into the hearing record.
0033
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 2              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
 3    entered into the record at this time.
 4              MS. SHULER:  One final procedural matter.  I
 5    note for the record that based on the testimony
 6    contained in the candidates PDQ, which is included in
 7    the record with the candidate's consent, Judge Hearn
 8    meets the statutory requirement for this position
 9    regarding age, residence and years of practice.
10    BY MS. SHULER:
11         Q.   Judge Hearn, after serving on the Court of
12    Appeals for 14 years and ten of those years as the
13    chief judge, why do you now want to serve on the
14    Supreme Court?
15         A.   I began my legal career as law clerk to then
16    Associate Justice Julius B. "Bubba" Ness in Bamberg,
17    and he was a terrific influence over my life and my
18    mentor.  He affected my life in so many ways.  So I've
19    always had a dream of ending my legal career back on
20    the court that I began working on, and that is the
21    Supreme Court.  I totally loved my time on the Court of
22    Appeals, and I am very grateful that the General
23    Assembly has seen fit to afford me the privilege of
24    serving as a judge there and as chief judge.  But after
25    14 years, I'm ready for a little bit of a new
0034
 1    challenge.
 2         Q.   Thank you.
 3              Judge Hearn, can you explain to the
 4    commission how you feel your legal and professional
 5    experience thus far will assist you in being an
 6    effective Supreme Court justice.
 7         A.   First of all, I have been doing the work of
 8    an appellate judge for 14 years.  I have a very large
 9    body of jurisprudence out there.  I have authored
10    hundreds, indeed, thousands of cases, but certainly
11    hundreds that are published.  With the exception of
12    those seven categories of cases that go directly to the
13    Supreme Court, the work of the Court of Appeals mirrors
14    the work of the Supreme Court in many ways, so I think
15    I have that experience going for me.
16              I also think the fact that I have been a
17    leader at the Court of Appeals for ten years.  Whenever
18    you're in a position of leadership, you learn a lot
19    about yourself but you also learn a lot about what it
20    takes to be part of a group.  And I think I am a very
21    good team player, and I would be a good part of the
22    team up there.  Even though I would not be in a
23    leadership role, I know how important it is to be a
24    team player after my tenure as being chief judge.
25         Q.   Judge Hearn, are there any areas, including
0035
 1    subjective areas of the law, that you would need to
 2    additionally prepare for to serve as a justice, and how
 3    would you go about that additional preparation?
 4         A.   Well, obviously, those seven categories of
 5    cases that go directly to the Supreme Court are not
 6    types of cases that I have dealt with personally;
 7    however, I'm not afraid of hard work.  I've always been
 8    a student.
 9              I went back to the University of Virginia
10    when I was in my 40s and did a two-year program
11    designed just for judges.  And let me tell you, it was
12    a very serious program at the University of Virginia.
13    It was law school all over again, only in your 40s.
14    And we had study groups and we had tests and none of us
15    wanted to be the first judge to fail out of that
16    program.  So we all worked very hard.  I'm not afraid
17    of studying.
18              So I pledge if I'm elected that I will
19    certainly do all I can to be familiar with those areas
20    of the law that I have not yet been able to touch.
21         Q.   Thank you.
22              Judge Hearn, although you address this in
23    your sworn affidavit, could you explain to the members
24    of the commission what you believe to be the
25    appropriate demeanor for a Supreme Court justice?
0036
 1         A.   Well, always courtesy.  Always courtesy.
 2    There's never a place for being temperamental, being
 3    short with the attorneys, certainly with the litigants
 4    or anybody.  I think poise, appropriate.  I think being
 5    a good listener is extremely important, and I've always
 6    tried to do that.  I do that with my fellow judges.
 7    Being chief judge of nine judges and two retired
 8    judges, there are really 11 of us altogether, that
 9    involves a lot of listening.  And I think it is very,
10    very important that the people that come before the
11    court, the lawyers feel that they've had an opportunity
12    to be heard.
13         Q.   Thank you.
14              Judge Hearn, if you were selected as a
15    Supreme Court justice and when you end your service,
16    what would you like your legacy to be known for on the
17    Supreme Court?
18         A.   That I was a fair, hard-working judge who did
19    good things in her personal life, as well.
20         Q.   Judge Hearn, although you briefly addressed a
21    question concerning judicial activism in your sworn
22    statement, that would be number 12, could you explain
23    your approach to your general judicial philosophy?
24         A.   I frankly think there's no place for judicial
25    activism at all.  I'm very well aware that in
0037
 1    South Carolina particularly, the way our constitution
 2    is set up, that the General Assembly is the law-giving
 3    body in this state.  The mantra in our chambers is
 4    always to follow the law and get it right.  So in my
 5    view, there's no really no place for judicial activism.
 6              Of course, there is an opportunity in those
 7    areas of the law where the General Assembly has not
 8    spoken for courts to develop the common law, but even
 9    then we adhere to precedent.  So I really don't see a
10    place for judicial activism.
11         Q.   Thank you.  Judge Hearn, have you sought or
12    received the pledge of any legislator prior to this
13    day?
14         A.   Absolutely not.
15         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
16    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
17    the outcome of your screening?
18         A.   I have not.
19         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
20    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
21         A.   I have not.
22         Q.   Have you contacted any members of the
23    commission?
24         A.   No.
25         Q.   Do you understand that you're prohibited from
0038
 1    seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the
 2    formal release of the commission's report?
 3         A.   I do.
 4         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
 5    on pledging?
 6         A.   I have.
 7         Q.   As a follow up, are you aware of the
 8    penalties for violating those pledging guidelines, that
 9    is, it is a misdemeanor and the violator must be fined
10    not more than a thousand dollars or imprisoned not more
11    than 90 days?
12         A.   Yes.
13              MS. SHULER:  I would note that the Pee Dee
14    Citizens Committee found Judge Hearn to be a highly
15    qualified candidate who would ably serve on the Supreme
16    Court bench.  I would just note for the record that any
17    concerns raised during the investigation regarding this
18    indicate were incorporated in the questioning of
19    Judge Hearn today.
20              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions for
21    Judge Hearn.
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Let's see if any member of
23    the commission has any questions.
24              Representative Clemmons.
25              REP. CLEMMONS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
0039
 1              Turn my microphone on so we can all hear.
 2              Judge Hearn, thank you so much for being here
 3    today and offering yourself for Supreme Court.
 4              It would help me if you could describe the
 5    responsibilities that you have as chief judge of the
 6    Court of Appeals as opposed to the other members of the
 7    Court of Appeals and the additional time constraints
 8    and work that that imposes on your responsibility.
 9              JUDGE HEARN:  Certainly.  My case load is the
10    same as all the other nine judges, all the other eight
11    judges, I guess, I should say, on the Court of Appeals.
12    And that translates to about a hundred cases a year
13    being assigned to be the author and another 200 on
14    which I sit and have a vote.  So I always read all of
15    those cases.  I'm not one of those people that can just
16    skim through a case and get a sense of it.  I have to
17    read it all, and I feel that I owe that to the lawyers
18    that appear in front of me.
19              In addition to that, though, as chief judge,
20    especially in the last few years when we've been
21    getting so many new judges on our court, it seemed to
22    me appropriate that we try to maintain consistency in
23    our motions practice.  We have about 4- to 5,000
24    motions filed a year at the Court of Appeals.  So
25    several years ago, I appointed myself as the duty judge
0040
 1    so there could be consistency.  I think the lawyers
 2    need consistency, they want consistency, and I think
 3    that's something we should aspire to.
 4              So I handle an awful lot of motions at the
 5    Court of Appeals as a single judge, and they run the
 6    gamut from, you know, motions for a continuance.  The
 7    first few motions of that nature go to the clerk's
 8    office, but after a lawyer has asked for several
 9    continuances, they come to me.  They run the gamut from
10    that kind of motion to a motion to dismiss the appeal
11    because there's some fatal problem with it.
12              So a lot of my time is spent handling motions
13    petitions for supersedeas, other emergency-type
14    matters.
15              In addition to that, I have a lot of
16    administrative responsibilities at the court.  I think
17    those include keeping my judges happy, so I do spend a
18    lot of time.  I have a lot of face time and telephone
19    time with all of my judges to make sure if they have
20    any concerns about anything, they feel that I've
21    listened to them and tried to resolve whatever issue
22    that they may have.
23              As chief Judge, I also have things like -- to
24    do meetings with the architects.  Tomorrow morning I
25    have a meeting with the architects who are looking at
0041
 1    our building.  We've had water problems there, moisture
 2    problems for many, many years.  And the building has
 3    never been renovated except the very first time, which
 4    was over 20 years ago.  So I have a lot of
 5    responsibilities like that, as well.
 6              Because I'm chief judge, I do spend more time
 7    in Columbia than any of the other judges, except those
 8    that live here.  I haven't figured out a way to run the
 9    court without being present, so I usually come up here
10    a couple of days each week.  It does take me away from
11    my home and my family, but I love it.  I really do love
12    it.  I just feel that after ten years as chief, it may
13    be time to let someone else take over the reigns.
14              REP. CLEMMONS:  Thank you, Judge.
15              One other question I would like to ask.  Many
16    of us, all of us rely very heavily upon very capable
17    staff.  I know you have great staff and very competent
18    clerks that assist you in your responsibilities.
19    Describe to us, if you would, the balance you see
20    between your clerks and your staff and the work that
21    you perform as a judge.
22              JUDGE HEARN:  I do rely on my clerks a lot.
23    I don't even hire an administrative assistant who's a
24    secretary.  I hire a young lawyer in that position, as
25    well.  And it's a good thing for them because it gives
0042
 1    them an opportunity to be at the Court of Appeals.
 2    They might not have the GPA to be a law clerk, but
 3    they're an administrative assistant and they do my
 4    administrative work in addition to serving as a
 5    part-time law clerk.
 6              But we all read all the cases that I have to
 7    vote on so that I can discuss those issues with them.
 8    They preliminarily do the bench memos for the cases,
 9    and those are distributed to the other members of the
10    panel.  I do a lot of the writing of my opinions
11    because I just like to write.  I'm one of those people.
12    I like to read and write.  So if it's an important case
13    particularly, I do the writing.  But because of the
14    volume of cases, they do some of the preliminary
15    writing, of course, but then I do the editing.
16              But we work very hard in my chambers.  As I
17    said, our mantra is we just want to get it right.  We
18    never approach a case with any kind of preconceived
19    notion or agenda.  We just want to follow the law and
20    get it right.  And I think we have.
21              I did have one of my law clerks check my
22    dissents over the last 14 years just to see how many
23    times I dissented, and I had dissented 20 times.  And
24    of those 20 times, the Supreme Court had taken
25    certiorari 15 times.  So out of that 15, the Supreme
0043
 1    Court took my view 13 out of 15 times.  So I thought
 2    that was a pretty good track record.  It's kind of hard
 3    to know how to evaluate yourself as a judge.
 4              You don't really have lawyers coming up to
 5    you saying, "Oh, great decision, Judge, way to go."  So
 6    it's a little hard to know if you're doing well or not.
 7    But at least by that yardstick, I think our chambers
 8    has gotten it right more times than not.  That's what I
 9    try to do.
10              REP. CLEMMONS:  Thank you so much.
11              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
12              Senator Knotts.
13              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you for applying for this
14    position, Chief.  And from what you're telling me and
15    from what I've been able to see myself, you have a
16    pretty busy workweek.
17              JUDGE HEARN:  I do.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  And I see you in Columbia
19    probably more than most judges.  Could you just tell me
20    about what your workweek consists of.
21              JUDGE HEARN:  Well, I usually get to the
22    office about 8:30 or earlier in the mornings.  I spend
23    about, I would say, two-thirds of my time at my Conway
24    chambers and at least a third of my time up here in
25    Columbia.  I spend my weekends reading the records
0044
 1    because I -- there are too many interruptions at the
 2    office to actually read the records or to do the
 3    writing, so I usually go into my Conway chambers, take
 4    my dog, and I go in one day out of the weekend and I
 5    usually work there because it's just -- it's quiet.  I
 6    don't have very many interruptions.
 7              I always have a record with me, whether I'm
 8    getting my haircuts or waiting at the dentist office, I
 9    always have a record because you never know when you're
10    going to have time to read.  And that's really good
11    uninterrupted time when you're sitting in a waiting
12    room.  I think I work really hard.  I feel like as
13    chief judge, I need to set the standard for hard work.
14    I need to be the most prepared of anyone on the panel,
15    and I try to be.
16              SEN. KNOTTS:  Obviously, you don't expect of
17    any other judge what you wouldn't do yourself.
18              JUDGE HEARN:  That's exactly right.
19              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you.
20              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
21              I just have one for you.  Can you give me --
22    do you have any, I guess, criteria or guideposts for
23    deciding whether to offer dissenting or concurring
24    opinions?
25              JUDGE HEARN:  I try to rarely dissent, and I
0045
 1    think 20 times in 14 years is not a great many
 2    dissents.  I really try to build consensus.  But if
 3    it's an issue that I feel very strongly about, then I
 4    will definitely dissent.  I try to never be -- to take
 5    potshots at the majority opinion or to make it
 6    personal.  I always try to be respectful in my dissent.
 7    But if it's something I feel strongly about, I will
 8    dissent.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  And in a concurring opinion?
10              JUDGE HEARN:  I almost never write a
11    concurring opinion.  I usually try to work with the
12    offering judge to tweak the language so I feel more
13    comfortable signing it.
14              We also do have the option of unpublished
15    opinions in our court.  We have a lot of opinions that
16    are unpublished.  They, by necessity, need to be more
17    memorandum style, more short opinions.  But sometimes
18    when we can't agree on the actual verbiage of an
19    opinion, although we all agree on the result, we'll opt
20    for an unpublished memorandum-style opinion.
21              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Anything further?
22              If not, this concludes this stage of the
23    screening process.
24              Several things very quickly.  One, I want to
25    thank you for cooperation with the staff, getting all
0046
 1    this paperwork done.
 2              JUDGE HEARN:  They have been great.  Thank
 3    you.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
 5              And secondly, the commission keeps a record
 6    open should anything come up that it feels it needs to
 7    look at.  It's not to indicate that there is anything
 8    outstanding until we vote.  We remind you of the
 9    48-hour rule, that we issue an informal report.  Does
10    not become formal until 48 hours thereafter.  No
11    commitments can be gotten.
12              Right now, the tentative schedule looks like
13    we will issue a report probably on April the 23rd and
14    which would indicate that probably around April the
15    28th at 12 noon, the 48 hours will expire.  And as
16    previously, it will be up to the General Assembly as to
17    when to vote.
18              With that, I want to thank you again for
19    coming and have a nice day.
20              JUDGE HEARN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
21    Members of the Commission.  Thank you very much.
22              (Judge Hearn exits the room.)
23              (Judge Jefferson enters the room.)
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We'll move to
25    the next judge which will be the Honorable Deadra L.
0047
 1    Jefferson also offering for seat number four, and
 2    Katherine Wells will be staff counsel.
 3              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Good morning.  How is
 4    everyone?
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  How are you doing?  Good
 6    morning.
 7              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I'm well.  How is everyone?
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We're all here.
 9              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  This weather doesn't help,
10    does it?
11              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Judge Jefferson, if you'll
12    be so kind as to raise your right hand.
13              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
14    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
15              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I do.
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
17              Have you had an opportunity to review the
18    personal data questionnaire?
19              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I have.
20              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is it correct, or does it
21    need any additions or deletions to it?
22              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  It needs an amendment.  It
23    came to my attention, I was not aware of this, that I
24    had been sued in federal court.  Actually, I
25    transitioned to the Circuit Court but was sued in my
0048
 1    official capacity in the federal court by a gentleman
 2    named King David Singletary.  He never affected
 3    service, however.  But I felt it prudent to go ahead
 4    and amend question number 34.
 5              So I have copies for you with that amendment
 6    indicating the date of the suit, and that it was
 7    dismissed without prejudice summarily by the federal
 8    court and the dates.  And I also have a letter
 9    indicating my amendment to the personal data
10    questionnaire.
11              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.
12              Is there any objection to accepting the
13    amendment?
14              Being none, so ordered.
15              Now, is there any objection to the personal
16    questionnaire being entered into the record at this
17    time?
18              There being none, so ordered.
19              (EXHIBIT 4, Personal Data Questionnaire of
20    Deadra L. Jefferson, admitted.)
21              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
22    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
23    bench.  Our inquiries focused on our nine evaluative
24    criteria.  It's included a survey of the bench and the
25    bar, a thorough study of your application materials, a
0049
 1    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
 2    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
 3    appears, a study of previous screenings, a check of
 4    economic conflicts of interest.
 5              We have received no affidavits filed in
 6    opposition to your election.  No witnesses are present
 7    to testify.
 8              I would ask you if you have any brief opening
 9    statements you would like to make prior to my turning
10    you over to Ms. Wells who has some questions for you?
11              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  No, sir.  In the interest
12    of time, and I know that you all would like to remain
13    on schedule, I would turn myself over to your able
14    hands.  And thank you for your time this morning.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
16              Ms. Wells.
17              MS. WELLS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
18              Judge Jefferson, we have already gone through
19    the personal data questionnaire and your amendment, and
20    that's now been submitted to the court reporter has an
21    exhibit.  You also have before you the sworn statement
22    you provided with detailed answers to over 30 questions
23    regarding judicial conduct, statutory qualifications,
24    office administration and temperament.
25              Are there any amendments you would like to
0050
 1    make at this time to the sworn statement?
 2              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  No, ma'am.
 3              MS. WELLS:  Mr. Chairman, at this time I
 4    would like to ask that Judge Jefferson's sworn
 5    statement be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
 6    record.
 7              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 8              Hearing none, the sworn statement and any
 9    amendments will be entered into the record at this
10    time.
11              (EXHIBIT 5, Sworn Statement of Deadra L.
12    Jefferson, admitted.)
13              MS. WELLS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14              I note for the record that based on the
15    testimony contained in Judge Jefferson's PDQ, she meets
16    the statutory requirements for this position regarding
17    age, residence and years of practice.
18    BY MS. WELLS:
19         Q.   Judge Jefferson, could you tell the
20    commission why you want to serve as a Supreme Court
21    justice?
22         A.   I have thought a great deal about this
23    question in the last few weeks, and I have to be very
24    frank.  I devoted some prayer to it and really
25    reflected on the matter.
0051
 1              Having served as a law clerk with
 2    Judge Fields, I realized -- and having never intended
 3    to stay in South Carolina after law school, I thought
 4    it would be far more exciting to go to Washington and
 5    work in those -- work in the Congress or in some other
 6    political area.  I realized very quickly after serving
 7    with him that the practice of law was my calling, my
 8    vocation, so to speak.  And I think it is very rare in
 9    this life when a person can find their vocation and to
10    walk in it.
11              I knew at some point after having been with
12    him that my life would come full circle and at some
13    point I would be involved in the judiciary in some
14    aspect.  And as it turned out, that inner voice was
15    correct.
16              And I served on the family court and then now
17    on the Circuit Court, with the Supreme Court, of
18    course, being our highest level that a judicial officer
19    can hold.
20              After having served as an associate justice
21    on the Supreme Court, it further instilled in me having
22    had that experience that performance on that bench
23    would be the highest honor of a judicial officer and
24    also the highest honor in upholding the rule of law and
25    integrity and fairness that that court is charged with.
0052
 1    I felt that it would be incredibly humbling as well as
 2    an awesome experience to have the opportunity to serve.
 3    And also having served the citizens of South Carolina
 4    in the Circuit Court has been the greatest honor of my
 5    life, and I think it would be an extension of that
 6    honor.
 7              In addition to that, the Circuit Court, as we
 8    know, is really a microcosm of what the Supreme Court
 9    does, and it had given me a greater opportunity to
10    serve at that level to do, to some extent, what I'm
11    doing now, just with a little more finality and to
12    serve in a greater responsibility both intellectually
13    and to serve the citizens of our state.
14              In addition to that, I believe that I can --
15    having observed the court for a number of years, and
16    not to sound immodest in any way, I believe that I can
17    contribute to the collegiality of that court.  I can
18    bring work ethic and intellect to that office.
19         Q.   Thank you, Your Honor.
20              Could you also explain to the commission how
21    you feel your legal and professional experience thus
22    far will assist you in becoming an effective Supreme
23    Court justice?
24         A.   I believe that, you know, I've started -- and
25    I clerked, which, of course, I think is your greatest
0053
 1    experience.  I often tell people and my clerks often
 2    tell me it is best job you will ever have.  I had a
 3    clerk recently who was in a bit of a hurry, because I
 4    would imagine the salary, I'm happy that it wasn't me,
 5    that she really loved being with me, which I believe
 6    she did.
 7              But I ran into her at the courthouse.  She
 8    was arguing one of her first motions.  And she was not
 9    the most emotional person, but she came running down
10    the hall and hugged my neck.  And she hugged me tighter
11    than she had ever hugged me, and she said, "This was
12    the best job I ever had.  I wish I had stayed with you
13    another year when you asked."
14              But, you know, until you have that
15    experience, you really don't know.  But being a
16    judicial law clerk, I think, is the greatest proving
17    ground, the greatest training ground that any lawyer
18    can have in service on the bench, especially if you
19    have a wonderful mentor, as I did.
20              In addition to that, having served on a
21    family court, if you had told me when I served on the
22    family court what a great proving ground that was,
23    every day I use the things that I learned in the family
24    court, although at the time I would not have realized
25    it.
0054
 1              And now having served on the Circuit Court,
 2    again, most of -- the majority of the things I would
 3    hear on the Supreme Court, I have heard on the Circuit
 4    Court and in some appellate capacity have ruled on in
 5    the Circuit Court.
 6              And having gotten a little ahead of myself
 7    and I apologize, after leaving Judge Fields, I went on
 8    into practice.  I went into a very small practice,
 9    which some may not have thought prudent because I could
10    have gone to work for a big firm.  I was a little
11    conflicted about it but made the decision to go to a
12    small firm.  And I learned from that experience, I grew
13    expedientially.
14              There are many things I learned very quickly.
15    And as I how often tell my clerks, you learn more from
16    what you don't do right than what you get right.  So I
17    learned a lot in that experience.  And within a month
18    after being in practice, I was trying my first case.
19    Within six months, I was in federal court trying a
20    case.  I don't think you really get that experience
21    anyplace else and with the full confidence of my law
22    partners allowing me that latitude and that flexibility
23    as well as that independence.
24              So I think all of those experiences, I draw
25    upon and would make me an effective Supreme Court
0055
 1    justice.  Because many of the things I've done, you
 2    know, I've tried a death penalty, many things I've
 3    already heard in an appellate capacity, and I think all
 4    of those things are just invaluable.
 5         Q.   Thank you.
 6              Are there any areas, Judge Jefferson,
 7    including any subjective areas of the law that you
 8    would need to additionally prepare for in order to
 9    serve as a Supreme Court justice?  And if so, how would
10    you handled that additional preparation?
11         A.   I would hate to say that I'm disingenuous and
12    would not want to.  I would not say that there are not
13    any areas I would not have to improve upon, but to
14    pinpoint one specific area, I don't think I can.  But I
15    will tell you my general philosophy.
16              My mentor always says the law is a growing
17    process, that's why we call it practice because we
18    never get it perfect.  And so every day I have a
19    practice of basically reflecting and thinking what
20    could I have done better today, what area of the law
21    could I have been better at, and really try to engage
22    in that reflection.  And when I do that, if there's an
23    area that I feel I need to improve upon, I will enroll
24    in a course at the National Judicial College,
25    otherwise, now there's so many other options.  Or
0056
 1    sometimes it's just as basic as me rereading the rules
 2    and reading -- you know, familiarizing, updating myself
 3    on case law related to those rules.
 4              So I think it's a growth process, and I think
 5    every day we have to reevaluate where we need
 6    improvement.  And so that is something I have
 7    implemented professionally for myself.
 8         Q.   Although you address this in your sworn
 9    affidavit, would you please explain to the members of
10    the commission what you think is the appropriate
11    demeanor for a Supreme Court justice.
12         A.   I think it is always the appropriate demeanor
13    for any judicial officer to be patient, to be
14    courteous, to be kind, to be fair and open-minded.  I
15    think the greatest travesty that any person could
16    experience coming into a courtroom is not to feel that
17    they have been heard.  So I think that any judicial
18    officer should make sure that that is their first
19    priority, that every litigant is heard, that the
20    lawyers are heard, that they feel you have been
21    patient, courteous, respectful and the utmost fair.
22              I also think, however, there are times when
23    the court must be stern, that the demeanor of the court
24    must at all times be preserved.  I think the public
25    expects it.  I think lawyers expect it.  Sometimes I
0057
 1    refer to myself as a hall monitor because sometimes
 2    that's necessary.  I have to referee, you know, because
 3    sometimes when people are advocating, they get very
 4    emotional.  And I think it is my responsibility to make
 5    sure that the decorum of the court is preserved at all
 6    times.
 7              Again, I've learned -- it is very
 8    interesting, I've observed in the gallery of my
 9    courtroom, people don't think I'm looking but I always
10    do for security reasons first and foremost because
11    people's emotions can run very high but also because
12    I'm just interested.  I'm a people person.  I like to
13    watch people.  And I have learned through my -- and I
14    speak to jurors when I release them.  I shake
15    everyone's hand and thank them for their service.  It's
16    very interesting the feedback that you get.
17              And I learned very early on that jurors and
18    the public expect the Court to maintain that decorum.
19    They expect a certain level of honor to be preserved
20    and to be projected to the public.  And so I think to
21    that extent sometimes that level of sternness is
22    necessary.
23         Q.   Thank you, Judge Jefferson.
24              When you leave the bench, what would you like
25    your legacy to be as a justice for the Supreme Court?
0058
 1         A.   I would like to believe that people would
 2    believe that I adhere to the rule of law, that I
 3    preserve the integrity and honor of the rule of law in
 4    this state, that I was open-minded, that I was fair and
 5    that I gave everyone an opportunity to be heard.
 6         Q.   Your Honor, although you briefly addressed a
 7    question concerning judicial activism in your sworn
 8    statement, would you explain to the commission your
 9    approach to your general judicial philosophy.
10         A.   I don't believe judicial activism is ever
11    appropriate.  We all play by a certain rule book, so to
12    speak, and that is precedent.  We are required to
13    adhere to it.  And to some extent as a judicial
14    officer, you have to remove any personal feelings you
15    may have about a subject.  It's almost as though you
16    come to it with a blank slate.  You review the law, you
17    review the arguments and you make a well-reasoned
18    decision based on law and precedent.  And that is my --
19    that is the way I approach those matters that are
20    before me.
21         Q.   Thank you, Judge Jefferson.
22              Have you sought or received the pledge of any
23    legislator prior to this date?
24         A.   No, ma'am.
25         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
0059
 1    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
 2    the outcome of your screening?
 3         A.   No, ma'am.
 4         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
 5    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
 6         A.   No, ma'am.
 7         Q.   Have you contacted any members of this
 8    commission?
 9         A.   No, ma'am.
10         Q.   Do you understand that you are prohibited
11    from seeking a pledge of commitment until 48 hours
12    after the formal release of the commission's report?
13         A.   Yes, ma'am.
14         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
15    on pledging?
16         A.   Yes, I have.
17         Q.   As a follow up, are you aware of the
18    penalties for violating the pledging rules, that is, it
19    is a misdemeanor and upon conviction, the violator must
20    be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more
21    than 90 days?
22         A.   Yes, I am aware of the penalties.
23              MS. WELLS:  Members of the Commission, I
24    would note that the Low Country Citizens Committee
25    submitted its November 2007 report for this candidate.
0060
 1    The committee found Judge Deadra L. Jefferson to be
 2    imminently qualified and a highly regarded candidate
 3    who would ably serve on the Supreme Court bench.
 4              I would also note for the record that any
 5    concerns raised during the investigation regarding the
 6    candidate were incorporated into the questioning today.
 7              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Does any member
 9    of the committee?
10              Representative Mack.
11              REP. MACK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12              Judge Jefferson, as you know, I know your
13    mentor very well --
14              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Yes.
15              REP. MACK:  -- Judge Fields.  And I'm a firm
16    believer that there's two parts of learning: one is the
17    formal education, the other is the life training.  What
18    are some of the things that you acquired over the time
19    that -- not from college, not from law school, not from
20    law books, any training, but some of the aspects you
21    got in that mentorship and that training you feel that
22    has been beneficial to you so far and would benefit you
23    as you seek to go higher?
24              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  You know, being with
25    Judge Fields helped refine a lot of things in me to
0061
 1    help reinforce and solidify things that my parents had
 2    taught me as a very young child.  One is work ethic.  I
 3    can't ever be working too hard.  One is courtesy to
 4    people.  Something we call people skills.
 5              There's a realm of the law that goes beyond
 6    the letter of the law.  It's people's lives, that's
 7    what we deal with every day.  And I try to every day
 8    balance that.  Because, you know, we can live with the
 9    consequences.  Sometimes we have to really think about
10    how those consequences effect someone, not just for one
11    day or two days, but possibly for the rest of their
12    lives.
13              In addition to that, through that mentorship,
14    and, again, these are things and principles my parents
15    reinforced in me.  There is no substitute for character
16    and integrity.  There's one thing for a person to know
17    what your reputation is, that's what people think of
18    you, but it's another to know what you would do when no
19    one is looking, and those things follow you throughout,
20    I think, your legal career.  Because it instills a
21    confidence in our system that people believe no matter
22    where I came from, no matter who I'm connected to, that
23    I'm going to be treated fairly.  That even if this
24    person does not -- and I say this person, but I really
25    mean the court -- even if my arguments are not accepted
0062
 1    and I'm not ruled for, that at least I was listened to
 2    and I was treated fairly.
 3              And I think all of those things go hand in
 4    hand, are interwoven within how a judicial officer
 5    performs.  And I think those are the things that I
 6    learned.  Those are the tangible things that you don't
 7    learn in school.  So I hope I answered your question.
 8              REP. MACK:  Yes.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Harrell.
10              MR. HARRELL:  Judge Jefferson.
11              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  How are you, Mr. Harrell?
12              MR. HARRELL:  I'm fine.  How are you?
13              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I'm well.
14              MR. HARRELL:  Judge, you're currently the
15    chief administrative judge in Charleston County?
16              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I just finished a term as
17    general sessions chief administrative judge and took a
18    term as chief administrative judge for the civil court.
19    And I think the more I protest doing it, the more I get
20    it.  The more gray hair I get.  It's an inside joke,
21    I'm sorry.
22              MR. HARRELL:  Judge, how do you balance that?
23    If you'll explain to me, how do you balance being the
24    chief administrative judge with, I guess, a ton of
25    attorneys would call in to try to get you to hear
0063
 1    scheduling orders or date certains or something like
 2    that, how do you go about balancing the duties of what
 3    you normally have going on and being the chief
 4    administrative judge?
 5              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  A lot of organization and
 6    gray hair.  I -- again, another inside joke.
 7              I am a bit of a perfectionist, a bit of an
 8    organizational -- I'm very structured.  I have to have
 9    things very organized, and I have my office pretty
10    much -- I've done it so many times now, it's almost
11    like a well-oiled machine.  I just come in a little
12    earlier and do status conferences before I go to court.
13              My office, whenever I have a law clerk, we
14    have a notebook that I prepare for them that deals with
15    ethical rules.  And I also do a short training with
16    them on ex parte communication.  Although we can have
17    ex parte communication to some extent in scheduling, I
18    find that it's a slippery slope.  And so I try to make
19    sure we talk to everybody at the same time.
20              So what we do, we have some administrative
21    weeks.  For example, I will be going back to Charleston
22    and doing status conferences tomorrow, all day.  But
23    what we do basically is I just design my life around
24    those additional responsibilities.  I have a policy
25    that all orders are signed the day they come in, so
0064
 1    sometimes that may mean we have to work late.  But I
 2    feel the lawyers need to get items in a timely manner.
 3              And for me, I have to admit it's a little bit
 4    of selfishness on my part.  I just don't like -- I
 5    can't really sleep well when I have all of those things
 6    not done.  For me, I need to have it resolved and done
 7    and taken care of.  So I'm a bit of a tough taskmaster
 8    sometimes, but my clerks, when they go into practice
 9    into the real world, they thank me.  So I feel it's an
10    appropriate tradeoff.
11              MR. HARRELL:  Well, does a lot of the
12    responsibility for that fall on the clerk, then, or do
13    you take it?
14              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  It falls me on me.  I take
15    care of it.  My staff and I take care of it.  I can't
16    take full responsibility because I have a great staff,
17    and they are wonderful.  We all work like a family.
18    It's like I pitch in and we all just work together.
19    And we have a system, and it works very well for us.
20              MR. HARRELL:  Okay.  So if something falls
21    through the cracks, you say the buck stops here?
22              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I do, absolutely.  And that
23    is my personal philosophy.  Even if I've delegated
24    something or even -- you know, I take the position even
25    if it has not fully come to my attention, the buck
0065
 1    stops with me.  I'm going to find out what happened.
 2    I'm going to find out where it went wrong.  And even if
 3    it is a mechanism in the clerk's office, I'm going to
 4    sit down with the clerk and make sure it never happens
 5    again.
 6              MR. HARRELL:  Okay.  Unrelated but just
 7    another quick question for you.
 8              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Sure.
 9              MR. HARRELL:  I appreciated your answer on
10    judicial activism and your willingness to follow
11    precedent, but at what point does -- are there certain
12    criteria that maybe are out there somewhere that would
13    require the overturning of a precedence, and if so, how
14    would you know when that approached you?
15              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I don't think it's ever
16    appropriate for the Circuit Court to overturn a
17    precedent.
18              MR. HARRELL:  No, ma'am, as a Supreme Court
19    justice would.
20              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Well, I think that that is
21    a decision that is made among you and your fellow
22    justices.  I don't think that's anything that one
23    justice makes a decision about.  I think that that --
24    and even if you look at the trend of case law this
25    year, there have been very few things, I think, that
0066
 1    have been overturned necessarily.  But I think there's
 2    been a consistency brought to our body of law for the
 3    last few years that required certain areas of the law
 4    to be clarified.
 5              Even, for example, in one of my cases, just
 6    the clarification for when a dying declaration is
 7    appropriate.  We have case law out there that said ten
 8    hours was appropriate.  We had some that said two hours
 9    was appropriate.  And so I think to some extent you
10    look at things like that and you say how do we bring
11    consistency to this body of law so that lawyers have a
12    blueprint of how they're approaching an area of the law
13    so that it is consistent throughout, so that we don't
14    have these cases sort of like all over the place.  I
15    don't really think that's activism.  I think that is
16    more bringing clarity.
17              I think, as I indicated, we all have a
18    blueprint that we follow.  We all have a rule book, so
19    to speak, that we play by.  That book has to be
20    consistent and as relates to, however, precedent.  And
21    I think there's some areas of the law that our court is
22    undertaking to clarify.  I know it's helping me a great
23    deal on the circuit bench, and I would think that many
24    of my colleagues feel the same way.
25              MR. HARRELL:  Thank you, Judge.
0067
 1              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  You're welcome.  Thank you.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Lexington,
 3    Senator Knotts.
 4              SEN. KNOTTS:  Good morning.
 5              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Good morning, Senator
 6    Knotts.
 7              SEN. KNOTTS:  I just want to tell you, you
 8    know, I've been over in your courtroom when you came to
 9    Lexington and observed you for a week.
10              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Yes, sir.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  And I saw the fact that you are
12    one of the few judges that I really got a call back
13    from jurors -- or I mean former jurors or people who
14    were just sitting there observing the court that really
15    liked the way you run a courtroom.
16              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Thank you, sir.  I
17    appreciate that.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  In fact, the matter of lawyers,
19    this was back months ago, I think you remember the case
20    that I'm talking about --
21              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Yes, sir.
22              SEN. KNOTTS:  -- that I sit and watched.
23              How do you feel that the way you do a -- that
24    they gave a high recommendation about the teamwork,
25    working with the Solicitor's Office, working with the
0068
 1    clerk's office and working with the law enforcement for
 2    the security of the courtroom, you included -- seemed
 3    like you included everybody in there.  Was that
 4    something that you do statewide, or you just did it
 5    because you were in Lexington?
 6              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Well, you know, Lexington
 7    is near and dear to my heart.  I've had many a chicken
 8    in Lexington with the bailiffs.
 9              SEN. KNOTTS:  They feed you well.
10              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  They do.  I always go on a
11    diet before I go to Lexington so I won't gain weight.
12              But levity aside, that is a policy I exercise
13    statewide.  I think it's very dangerous to go into any
14    situation where it's just me and modify it just for me.
15    I feel that we all have to work -- I really approach it
16    like a family.  I feel like we all have a job to do.
17    It's is very important, and I think it's so very
18    important for the public to have faith in what we do,
19    to know that we've done it right.  So that necessarily
20    includes including everybody.
21              I talk to the sheriff, I talk to the
22    solicitor, I talk to the public defender.  And usually
23    I have a meeting, especially with something like you
24    had in Lexington, a death penalty.  I have scheduling
25    orders, so we talk along as the case goes so that we're
0069
 1    on all on the same page.  And then when we get to the
 2    courthouse, there's nothing that we have not
 3    anticipated so that everything runs very smoothly.  So
 4    I do that in every county that I go into.
 5              SEN. KNOTTS:  It was just amazing to know
 6    that you were able to come into Lexington and bring all
 7    the dissenting factors of the local politics together
 8    and the local elected officials and everything together
 9    to be able to accomplish what you did that week.  I
10    said one day if I got a chance to ask you, I was going
11    to ask you.  Thank you for your answer.
12              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  You're kind.  I appreciate
13    that.  Thank you, Senator.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any further questions?
15              I have just one.  Concurring opinions and
16    dissenting opinions in the Appellate Court, I know
17    you've been a trial judge, I would ask you if you have
18    any thoughts as to what role those should have in the
19    appeals court?
20              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  I think that's a very
21    interesting question.  It's funny, I heard Alex
22    Sanders, who I just admire just a great deal, he gave a
23    talk about that one time.  And I was much younger, but
24    I still understood what he was saying.  Now I often
25    reflect on it.
0070
 1              Just based on the collegiality of any court,
 2    I just think that dissents really are a rarity unless
 3    you just feel so very strongly about a point that you
 4    are not able to reach consensus with the other members
 5    of your court.  Concurring opinions, almost along the
 6    same lines, unless there's some real distinction that
 7    needs to be made.
 8              Oftentimes, you see concurring opinions where
 9    they concur in result, don't concur in the reasoning.
10    And I'm not certain that I necessarily agree with that,
11    but I think that they should be -- you should be able
12    to reach consensus with your colleagues.  Precedent is
13    fairly clear, and I think that in most instances,
14    especially for purposes of collegiality, you should be
15    able to establish a majority opinion regarding the
16    case.  And having served on the Supreme Court, I've had
17    that experience and it's very interesting.  But I think
18    in most instances you can reach that.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
20              And I would agree with you, Judge Fields was
21    the first person when I worked at the Neighborhood
22    Legal Assistance Program and he was chairman of the
23    board.  I know the type of experience you get from him.
24              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Invaluable.
25              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  With that, that
0071
 1    concludes, then, this stage of the screening process.
 2    Several things very quickly.  One, I want to thank you
 3    for your cooperation with our staff, getting everything
 4    done; secondly, to tell you we keep the files open up
 5    until we vote, just for the purposes of if something
 6    comes up we feel we need to look at that, we have that
 7    option to do so.  It does not indicate there's anything
 8    outstanding.
 9              Lastly, I would remind you of the 48-hour
10    rule, and that is, of course, that we will issue an
11    informal report.  Right now we are looking like it will
12    probably be about Thursday, April 21st, which would
13    result in the report coming final about the 28th --
14    23rd, I'm sorry.  I can't even read my own writing down
15    here.
16              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Don't feel bad.  My writing
17    is getting horrible.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Which would take us to
19    around April 28th around 12 noon after that at which it
20    will become formal and then the commitments could be
21    received.
22              With that, that concludes it.  Thank you
23    again.  It's good to see you.  Take care.
24              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  Good to see you.  Thank you
25    all.  And I just want to -- kudos to your staff.
0072
 1    They're incredibly professional and accommodating.  I
 2    appreciate the kindness and respect with which they
 3    treated me.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you so much.
 5              JUDGE JEFFERSON:  You all have a wonderful
 6    day.  Bye.
 7              (Judge Jefferson exits the room.)
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Ladies and gentlemen, we
 9    need to take about a ten-minute break to make our
10    technical adjustments, and we'll be right back.
11              (A recess transpired.)
12              (Judge A.E. Morehead, III, enters the room.)
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We'll go back on
14    the record at this point.  And we have before us the
15    Honorable A.E. Morehead, III.
16              Good to have you here.
17              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Thank you, sir.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Before I begin yours, I
19    think staff wanted to make some statement for the
20    record, so I'll --
21              MS. SHULER:  I just wanted to advise the
22    commission members that it was the staff's error in
23    scheduling and Judge Morehead and the candidates
24    received a schedule with his time appearing before
25    Judge Williams.  So Judge Williams is not late.  It's
0073
 1    just there was a different schedule.  We flipped it.
 2              So thank you, Judge Morehead.
 3              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Yes, ma'am.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  With that, if
 5    you would be so kind as to raise your right hand,
 6    please, sir.
 7              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
 8    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 9              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  I do.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
11              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
12    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
13    bench.  Our inquiries focused on the nine evaluative
14    criteria.  It's included a survey of the bench and the
15    bar, a thorough study of your application materials, a
16    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
17    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
18    appears, a study of previous screenings and a check for
19    economic conflicts of interest.
20              We have received no affidavits filed in
21    opposition to your election.  No witnesses are present
22    to testify.  So I would ask you if you have any brief
23    opening statements you wish to make before I turn you
24    over to our staff counsel, Mr. Gentry, who will have
25    some questions for you.
0074
 1              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Well, Mr. Chairman, on the
 2    two previous races for the Supreme Court, I did waive
 3    an opening statement.  But if you don't mind, since
 4    this is my third and final time, I would like to make a
 5    brief statement.
 6              For those who have reviewed my application,
 7    you noted that I had the privilege of playing baseball
 8    in college.  And when you stepped in that box at home
 9    plate, you felt quite comfortable if you did not have
10    any strikes against you or if you possibly just had one
11    strike against you, but you got quite anxious when you
12    were standing there with two strikes against you.
13              But I learned from participating in that
14    sport that it was okay to strike out.  And when you
15    walked back to the dug out, you always kept your head
16    up high because you realized that you took the
17    opportunity to step in there and take your swings, and
18    you also knew that it might not be your particular
19    field and at a future date on another field, you might
20    go three for three or possibly hit a home run.  And I
21    was able to do that on an occasion.
22              So I think this is a similar situation in
23    that if I do strike out, I'll keep that head up high.
24    And I know that if the good Lord continues to bless me
25    with excellent health, in a future day in a future
0075
 1    field, maybe I'll be able to hit that home run.  And I
 2    don't regret this experience at all.
 3              My wife and I, for the past three years, have
 4    made new friends, have had an opportunity to rekindle
 5    old acquaintances.  And your staff, Ms. Shuler and
 6    Mr. Gentry, they've been most courteous and very
 7    professional, and I've enjoyed this experience.
 8              Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
10              Mr. Gentry.
11              MR. GENTRY:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the
12    Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take
13    care of regarding Judge Morehead.
14              If you will please hand a copy of the
15    personal data questionnaire --
16              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  She did.
17              MR. GENTRY:  Judge Morehead, you have before
18    you the personal data questionnaire you submitted as
19    part of your application.
20              Are there any amendments that you would like
21    to make to your PDQ?
22              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  The only possibility,
23    Mr. Gentry, in looking through this may be in section
24    26 where it talks about previous candidacies.  I may
25    have -- I get confused with the fall and spring terms,
0076
 1    but in section B and C, I said that I ran for the
 2    spring 2007 for seat 5, that was the one Justice Beatty
 3    received, and that was fall of 2008.  That possibly
 4    should have been spring of 2008 where Judge --
 5    Justice Kittredge won.  So that would be the only
 6    amendment that I would see.
 7              MR. GENTRY:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
 8    would ask that Judge Morehead's PDQ and his amendment
 9    be entered as an exhibit into the hearing record.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
11              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
12    and the amendments will be entered into the record at
13    this time.
14              (EXHIBIT 6, Personal Data Questionnaire of
15    A.E. Morehead, III, admitted.)
16              MR. GENTRY:  Judge Morehead, you also have
17    before you the sworn statement you provided with
18    detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding
19    judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office
20    administration and temperament.
21              Are there any amendments you would like to
22    make to your sworn statement?
23              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  No, sir.
24              MR. GENTRY:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
25    ask that Judge Morehead's sworn statement be entered as
0077
 1    an exhibit into the hearing record.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 3              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
 4    entered into the record at this time.
 5              (EXHIBIT 7, Sworn Statement of A.E. Morehead,
 6    III, admitted.)
 7              Mr. Gentry.
 8              MR. GENTRY:  One final procedural matter,
 9    I'll note for the record that based on the testimony
10    contained in Judge Morehead's PDQ, Judge Morehead meets
11    the statutory requirements for this position regarding
12    age, residence and years of practice.
13    BY MR. GENTRY:
14         Q.   Judge Morehead, why do you want to serve as a
15    Supreme Court justice?
16         A.   Well, Mr. Gentry, I've had 36 years in this
17    wonderful profession.  I had a wonderful time in
18    practicing law for 12 or 13 years, and I've been on the
19    trial bench -- I'm into my 25th year on the trial
20    bench.  And I've had the taste of appellate work and
21    Chief Justice Finney and Chief Justice Toal gave me the
22    opportunity to sit on the Court of Appeals for an
23    extended period of time due to some vacancies.  Even
24    Chief Justice Toal has allowed me to serve on the
25    Supreme Court when there was a conflict with some
0078
 1    justices.
 2              I feel as a trial judge for 25 years, I
 3    possibly have done everything I could.  In the family
 4    court bench, I've tried to work outside the box and
 5    create some alternatives.  I've been involved with a
 6    drug court program for six or seven years and have
 7    worked in different areas, and to have the opportunity
 8    to close out a career and not per se just dealing with
 9    the individuals that are directly in front of you but
10    possibly for generations to come with appellate
11    decisions, that's my primary reason for wanting to
12    conclude my career at this level.
13         Q.   Are there any areas including subjective
14    areas of the law that you need to prepare for in order
15    to serve as a justice and how would you go about that
16    preparation?
17         A.   If I would have to say a particular area of
18    substantive law, I don't believe I could give you a
19    particular area.  I think I could probably give you a
20    hundred particular areas.  But to me, that's the
21    exciting thing about it.  I know that some of the
22    members of this committee are here for the first time.
23    They've just recently been appointed this year.  And
24    they've probably been on other committees and then all
25    of a sudden they get appointed to a new committee, I
0079
 1    think there's some excitement in wanting to do right,
 2    to be involved when you're involved in a new situation.
 3              That happened like when I spent the six to
 4    eight months on the Court of Appeals back in 2000, I
 5    authored some cases.  One of the cases I think I
 6    included in my application, the Carlton case.  It dealt
 7    with unfair trade practice act and the manufacturers,
 8    distributors and mechanics act.  I'd never dealt with
 9    anything like that before.
10              But through hard work and research and
11    wanting to get it right, I authored that opinion in
12    Carlton Motors.  And about two or three years ago at a
13    bar convention, a couple of lawyers come up to me and
14    told me they were able to use that case in a case they
15    had in lower court.  That's how you deal with those
16    issues.
17              I had a case that dealt with Richland County
18    and it dealt with the recreational use act and the tort
19    claims act that you just don't see in family court, but
20    I was able to author that opinion.  And through hard
21    work, research and analyzing the problem in writing
22    coherent order, there's an excitement in that.
23              As I mentioned, 25 years on the trial bench,
24    it would be exciting to do something different.  And I
25    think you stay up on the law.  I get the bar blast on a
0080
 1    weekly basis.  I go to conventions, seminars, read the
 2    advance sheets, and I think that's how you stay up on
 3    it.
 4         Q.   Could you please explain to the members of
 5    the commission what you think is the appropriate
 6    demeanor for justice?
 7         A.   Well, a justice is somewhat different than a
 8    trial judge.  I don't think you have that daily contact
 9    with the public.  The justices are more isolated.  But
10    when they're on the bench and when they're off the
11    bench, there has to be that appearance that you would
12    do nothing improper.
13              As long as I've been doing this, I realize
14    that 24/7 somebody is watching me at all times.  People
15    in the community know that I'm a judge and whether I'm
16    on the bench or off the bench, out in public, I try to
17    carry the proper demeanor that nobody would ever think
18    that I would do anything improper, and especially if I
19    were hearing their case, that there would be any bias
20    on either side.
21         Q.   If elected, what would you like for your
22    legacy to be as a justice on the Supreme Court?
23         A.   That's a good question.  As much as I think
24    about this profession, I'm going to give you a double
25    answer.  If you looked at my application, you saw that
0081
 1    I have a son who's a lawyer in Charlotte.  He's a
 2    member of the South Carolina and North Carolina bar.
 3    And he has two children who are seven and five, and my
 4    daughter has a one-year-old in Washington.
 5              I think my greatest legacy would be if my
 6    grandchildren's grandchildren were using my opinions in
 7    decisions that they were dealing with.  Mathematically,
 8    quickly, I think about that with their age, I think
 9    that would take about a hundred years for their
10    grandchildren to be in this legal profession and using
11    decisions or opinions that I wrote while on the Supreme
12    Court.
13              If that were the case, then possibly I could
14    paraphrase a famous poem of prayer that General Douglas
15    MacArthur wrote about his son during World War II that
16    he had never seen.  The last sentence, I could
17    paraphrase it by saying, "Then I, as their great, great
18    grandfather, could dare whisper that I did not live in
19    vain."
20         Q.   Although you briefly addressed a question
21    concerning judicial activism in your sworn statement,
22    could you explain your approach to your general
23    judicial philosophy?
24         A.   Well, I don't think there's any place for
25    judicial activism.  I loved the recent dissenting
0082
 1    opinion that Justice Thomas just wrote two weeks ago,
 2    and he quoted a Chief Judge Alex Sanders by saying that
 3    the appellate courts don't answer a question that
 4    wasn't asked.
 5              I think the purpose of a justice is to follow
 6    the constitution and legal and constitutional statutes
 7    that were passed by the legislator, and it's totally
 8    inappropriate to change laws or be an activist justice.
 9         Q.   Thank you, Judge Morehead.
10              Have you sought or received the pledge of any
11    legislator prior to this date?
12         A.   No, sir.
13         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
14    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
15    the outcome of this screening?
16         A.   No, sir.
17         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
18    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
19         A.   No, sir.
20         Q.   Have you contacted any members of this
21    commission?
22         A.   No, sir.
23         Q.   Do you understand that you're prohibited from
24    seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the
25    formal release of the commission's report?
0083
 1         A.   I do.
 2         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
 3    on pledging?
 4         A.   I have.
 5         Q.   Are you aware of the penalties for violating
 6    the pledging rules, that is, it's a misdemeanor and
 7    upon conviction, a violator must be fined not more than
 8    $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days?
 9         A.   Yes, sir.
10              MR. GENTRY:  I would note that the Pee Dee
11    Citizens Committee found Judge Morehead to be a highly
12    qualified candidate that would ably serve on the
13    Supreme Court bench.
14              I would just note for the record that any
15    concerns raised during the investigation regarding
16    Judge Morehead were incorporated into the questioning
17    today.
18              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Does any members of the
20    commission have a question?
21              Mr. Sellers.
22              MR. SELLERS:  Judge Morehead, what is your
23    understanding of why you were selected by two chief
24    judges to serve periods of time on the Court of Appeals
25    in the Supreme Court?
0084
 1              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Mr. Sellers, I'm not -- I
 2    don't know what their thought process was.  When Chief
 3    Justice Finney asked me, Chief Judge Bill Howell had
 4    retired and there was going to be an extended vacancy.
 5    I think Judge Shuler was elected to replace him, and I
 6    sat on the Court of Appeals for eight months during
 7    that vacancy, two months in reading and then actually
 8    hearing cases for six months.
 9              And then the last opportunity was when Judge
10    Carroll Conner was ill and Chief Justice Toal asked me
11    to serve for a term.  But they did not -- when the
12    chief justice calls, I didn't ask questions.  I was
13    thrilled at the opportunity just to -- and I think it
14    made me a better trial judge.  When I went back, I had
15    a better understanding of what they experience, and it
16    also lit that fire for what I'm doing today.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Any other
18    questions?
19              Yes, sir.  Senator from Lexington.
20              SEN. KNOTTS:  Judge, what's your workweek
21    look like when you're on the bench?
22              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Sir, I get into the office
23    between 8:00 and 8:30, and our normal term of court
24    doesn't start till 9:30.  But we hear emergency cases
25    from 8:30 to 9:30.  And for some strange reason, we
0085
 1    have emergency cases, whether they're bench warrants,
 2    domestic abuse cases, et cetera.  So we begin about
 3    8:30 or 9:00 and have a full docket.
 4              If we travel around the state, different
 5    courts set dockets differently.  But we go to work on
 6    Monday and get that row and we hoe it until it's over.
 7    So it's a constant docket.
 8              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.  Thank you.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
10              Tell me what you think the role of dissenting
11    opinions and concurring opinions are in the appellate
12    court.  As a justice, how would you use those?
13              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  Well, I think they're
14    important, but it takes a lot to do that.  When you
15    disagree with the majority or you think they're wrong,
16    I think you should issue a dissenting opinion.
17              In 2000, the first three months on the Court
18    of Appeals, they rotate panels every three months.  I
19    sat on a panel with Justice Goolsby and Cureton, the
20    most experienced Court of Appeals judges, and I issued
21    a dissent.  In fact, I included that case in my
22    application.  It was on an armed robbery charge, and
23    that was the only dissent that I made while on the
24    Court of Appeals.  And it was appealed to the Supreme
25    Court and the Supreme Court reversed them and said I
0086
 1    was right on the armed robbery charge.
 2              But I think dissenting opinions are important
 3    because from the trial bench perspective, when you've
 4    got a dissent or a split opinion, I think the trial
 5    judges look at similar cases more closely because there
 6    is this split of opinion.  And if there are any
 7    situations where your factual situation might differ,
 8    you look at that.
 9              But I think it also from the state level is
10    beneficial to the legislature or the executive branch
11    because where you see there's a split of authority, if
12    it deals with a statute or something of that nature,
13    the legislature can go back and look at it to see if it
14    needs to be amended or if the true legislative intent
15    was interpreted because there's this dissent on the
16    appellate level.
17              So I do think it plays an important role.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
19              Any further questions?
20              If not, that concludes this stage of the
21    screening process.
22              First of all, I want to thank you for your
23    cooperation with our staff and getting all of this
24    stuff -- particularly all of this paperwork done.
25    Secondly, to remind you of the 48-hour rule again.
0087
 1    Tentatively, we're hoping to put out a report
 2    April 23rd, which 48 hours would take it us to about
 3    April 28, 2009, before any commitments could be gotten.
 4              Additionally, we keep the record open up
 5    until we publish the report so that if anything comes
 6    up, we reserve the right to reopen the record.  It's
 7    not to indicate there's anything out there pending or
 8    anything, it's just a practice of this commission.
 9              With that, we thank you for your time and for
10    your willingness to go out of order today to help us
11    keep on schedule.
12              JUDGE MOREHEAD:  All right.  Thank you.
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
14              (Judge Morehead exits the room.)
15              (Judge Williams enters the room.)
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll go back on the record
17    at this point.  We have before us the Honorable H.
18    Bruce Williams who is offering for Supreme Court seat
19    number 4.
20              If you'd be so kind as to raise your right
21    hand, please.
22              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
23    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
24              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  I do.
25              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
0088
 1              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
 2    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
 3    bench and our survey and inquiry has focused on our
 4    nine evaluative criteria and it had included a survey
 5    of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your
 6    application materials, a verification of your
 7    compliance with state ethics laws, a search of
 8    newspaper articles in which your name appears, a study
 9    of previous screenings and a check for economic
10    conflicts of interest.
11              We've received no affidavit filed in
12    opposition to your election.  No witnesses are present
13    to testify.
14              So I'd ask if you have any brief -- any brief
15    opening statement you would like to make before I turn
16    you over to Mr. Dennis who is going to have some
17    questions for you.
18              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Well, they tell me I'm on
19    time, so I checked on that.  I was a little worried
20    when I walked in they were looking for me, but I hear
21    I'm on time.
22              I would like to thank Ms. Shuler and Mr.
23    Dennis and Ms. Traywick, they've been most kind and
24    very professional during the process, in the
25    application process, and I appreciate their efforts and
0089
 1    cooperation.  Just to let you know they do a very good
 2    job.
 3              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.  We
 4    appreciate that.  We think they do, too.
 5              Mr. Dennis.
 6              MR. DENNIS:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the
 7    Commission, I've got just a couple of procedural
 8    matters to take care of with the candidate.
 9              Judge Williams, you should have before you a
10    copy of your personal data questionnaire.  You
11    submitted this as part of your application.  Is there
12    any amendment that you would like to make to this PDQ
13    at this time?
14              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  No, sir.
15              MR. DENNIS:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
16    would ask that Judge Williams' personal data
17    questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
18    record.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
20              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
21    will be entered into the record.
22              (EXHIBIT 8, Personal Data Questionnaire of H.
23    Bruce Williams, admitted.)
24              MR. DENNIS:  Judge Williams, also you have
25    before you a sworn statement you provided with detailed
0090
 1    answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial
 2    conduct, statutory qualifications, office
 3    administration and temperament.  Is there any amendment
 4    that you would like to make to this statement at this
 5    time?
 6              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  No, sir.
 7              MR. DENNIS:  Mr. Chairman, I would ask that
 8    Judge Williams' sworn statement be entered into the
 9    record as an exhibit.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
11              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
12    entered into the record at this time.
13              (EXHIBIT 9, Sworn Statement of H. Bruce
14    Williams, admitted.)
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Dennis.
16              MR. DENNIS:  One final procedural matter.  I
17    note for the record that based on the testimony
18    contained in the candidate's PDQ, which has been
19    included in the record with the candidate's consent,
20    Judge Williams meets the statutory requirements for
21    this position regarding age, residence and years of
22    practice.
23    BY MR. DENNIS:
24         Q.   Judge Williams, why do you want to serve as a
25    Supreme Court justice?
0091
 1         A.   For me, it's another opportunity to serve.  I
 2    think that growing up, whether it was -- starts back, I
 3    guess, at home and school and church, that's what I've
 4    been taught is looking for opportunities to serve the
 5    community.  I did that when I was growing up as a young
 6    person, as I got involved as a young practitioner and
 7    continued to do that practicing law.  And then as a
 8    judge, I've been able to do some things that I think
 9    allow me to contribute maybe my experiences and
10    thoughts about how we do things in the system.
11              So it's, for me, an opportunity to work on
12    improving the system and from a different point of
13    view.  You know, I guess I'm watching this process over
14    the years and just looking at how the public perceives
15    the system in general is something that we continuously
16    have to work on.  The public perception that they know
17    when they come into -- they being any person who walks
18    into a courtroom, they're being treated fairly, that
19    laws have been applied in an even-handed way and when
20    they leave, that's the feeling they have.
21              And I guess for me, it's to have an
22    opportunity from a different court to work on every
23    person who comes into a court, whether Magistrates
24    Court, Family Court, Circuit Court, Court of Appeal
25    Supreme Court, whether they're rich, poor, black,
0092
 1    white, Hispanic, their representing entity, whatever
 2    reason they're there for, that they come away knowing
 3    that we're trying to do things right.  We're trying to
 4    get it right.
 5              And I would like to have an additional
 6    opportunity to help educate the public in that regard.
 7    I've done that -- a lot of that, I think, my serving in
 8    family court and working with people, understanding how
 9    the family court system worked.  And for me, another
10    opportunity to just look at how the system in general
11    operates.
12              We've got 114 state judges.  We've got over
13    9,000 lawyers.  We have two law schools with lots of
14    professors and students, all the citizens in this state
15    that probably have some idea of how we do things, but
16    maybe we look at how we do them better.  I know every
17    court I've ever been in, that's what we do every day.
18    Walk in, how do we do this better?  I think serving on
19    the Supreme Court will be an opportunity to look for
20    some of those answers.
21              I'm already trying to do a little bit of
22    that, I guess, in working with alternative courts, drug
23    courts.  I think the public sees that some of the
24    alternative courts that's being created are good,
25    positive things.  And I think we need to continue to
0093
 1    work on that, and I want the opportunity to assist in
 2    that.
 3              So it's just a different way to contribute as
 4    a lawyer and as a judge and just as a member of the
 5    community, trying to give something back in public
 6    service.  And that's what I've always tried to do.
 7         Q.   Judge, you touched on this in your last
 8    answer, would you mind in a little more detail explain
 9    to the commission how you feel your legal and
10    professional experience up to this point has prepared
11    you for this job?
12         A.   I've got a pretty broad background in
13    practicing law.  I practiced some 13 years and with a
14    small firm, representing folks in magistrate's court,
15    family court, Circuit Court, before the Supreme Court,
16    and represented all different types of individuals --
17    as individuals from both corporations and others.
18              During that 13 years, I also had the
19    opportunity to serve four years as an associate town
20    judge in Irmo, again, giving me some additional
21    experience in seeing how local community courts work as
22    well as working -- seeing the local law enforcement and
23    what happens in a town judge setting.
24              Then I served nine years on the family court,
25    and I served five years on the Court of Appeals.  Both
0094
 1    of those give me a great deal of experience in looking
 2    at how the courts work as a practitioner, when I was
 3    practicing law, and then going back as a judge and the
 4    family court working with helping, again, something
 5    that's important to me, developing, working with drug
 6    courts.  I've been working with the juvenile drug court
 7    for some 12 years.  I still do that.  I worked in adult
 8    drug court for three.
 9              I think what that experience gives me as I've
10    represented clients, it's a very practical experience
11    of understanding what clients go through when they walk
12    into a courtroom.  What people feel and making certain
13    that they're well represented.  It's also understanding
14    from a judge's point of view, again, what I said
15    earlier, it's why I want to be on the Supreme Court.
16    That background helps me understand that every person
17    who walks in that courtroom needs to have that feeling
18    when they walk out, that that's in fact the case.
19              The town judge, again, gives a little local
20    background.  Family court, dealing with some of the
21    most personal problems that you would ever have in your
22    life.  And applying the law, which is the academic side
23    of things, to those very personal issues and then for
24    those litigants to feel like when they walk out of
25    there, that you've listened, you care about what you do
0095
 1    and that you're trying to do the right thing and make
 2    the right decision.
 3              In serving on the appellate court, again,
 4    it's a different way for me to learn about judging from
 5    a different perspective.  In the trial court, in the
 6    family court, it wasn't a jury, it's just a judge, so
 7    you're making a decision.  In the appellate court,
 8    working with other judges, listening to the give and
 9    take that goes on, listening to their ideas and them
10    listening to you.  So it's a different perspective as
11    an appellate judge.
12              So you learn from that.  I think I have and
13    that's another reason I wanted to move to that
14    particular court is to give me that experience.  And
15    I've enjoyed doing that.
16              I think over the years in being involved in
17    these courts, I've had the opportunity to serve in some
18    leadership positions.  My fellow family court judges
19    were very kind and elected me as president of their
20    group.  I served in that capacity, and I also served as
21    chairman of the advisory board to the chief justice and
22    did that right before I came to the Court of Appeals.
23              In doing those particular jobs, I had the
24    opportunity to serve on a couple of joint committees
25    here in the legislature.  Served on joint committees
0096
 1    dealing with adoption and also worked with, I guess,
 2    Senator Martin when there was issues about guardian ad
 3    litems at one point in time and helped and assisted in
 4    looking at that particular issue which resulted in some
 5    subsequent legislation resolving some issues in that
 6    particular area.
 7              So in serving those different capacities,
 8    I've had the opportunity to work with members of the
 9    legislature.  Now I serve as president of the State
10    Drug Court Association.  That's given me some
11    opportunities to stay involved in the community, and,
12    again, the court system doing something that's a little
13    bit different but still within its role of judiciary.
14    Been involved in helping assist drug courts grow across
15    the state.
16              So I guess I just want the opportunity to use
17    the experience as, I guess, a private citizen, as a
18    practitioner and as a judge in the various courts to
19    see if I can contribute again and, again, make the
20    system better.
21         Q.   Judge, do you feel that there are any areas,
22    including subjective areas of the law, that you would
23    need some additional preparation for in order to become
24    Supreme Court justice or be an effective Supreme Court
25    justice, and how would you go about handling those
0097
 1    additional preparations?
 2         A.   I think just as a practical matter there are
 3    certain areas, and it's probably the same answer I gave
 4    in the Court of Appeals, just in that I didn't do a lot
 5    of probate work or property law and some of those
 6    matters.  So when I come across issues, I probably
 7    spend a little extra time trying to look at those
 8    because that's not something I did as much of in
 9    practicing.
10              But as far as the particular area, no, sir,
11    other than the appellate court, you see different
12    issues all the time that you prepare for, work with the
13    law clerks, get the research done and anything that I
14    may not have experienced over the years as a
15    practitioner or as a judge in any other courts, just
16    work a little harder in being preparing the case when
17    it comes up.
18         Q.   Judge, you addressed this in your sworn
19    affidavit, would you please tell the commission what
20    you think the appropriate demeanor for a Supreme Court
21    justice is.
22         A.   Same demeanor that every judge in the state
23    should have, and that's that you're attentive, that you
24    care about what you do.  But again, it goes back to
25    something that's been very important to me over the
0098
 1    years is that when someone walks in the courtroom, they
 2    really know that you care about what you do, that
 3    you're trying to do the right thing, that you treat
 4    every person who walks in there with great respect.
 5              I was very fortunate nine years in family
 6    court, never had to sanction a lawyer or a litigant
 7    because of their conduct.  Part of that, I hope, is
 8    because they understood that I had great respect for
 9    the lawyer, for his or her role in the courtroom and
10    the litigant, great respect for them as a person in
11    looking to us to help resolve a problem and in making
12    certain that -- or trying my best to make certain that
13    they knew that.
14              And I think it really makes a difference.
15    And I'll tell you this story is just something that
16    impressed me as to why I still try to do that, whether
17    it's in the courtroom or out.  I guess a couple of
18    years ago I was in the gym and a gentleman walked over
19    and asked me if you're Judge Williams.  And as a former
20    family court judge, I kind of hesitated a little bit
21    because I wasn't so sure it was a friendly question or
22    not.
23              But I responded, "Yes, sir, I am."
24              And he said, "Well, you heard my divorce
25    case."
0099
 1              "I hope you're doing well, sir."
 2              And he said, "Well, I lost."
 3              I said, "Well, I'm really sorry about that."
 4              But he said, "I just wanted to thank you.
 5    You listened, you seemed to care about what you were
 6    doing.  You took the time to explain your decision to
 7    us, and I think you were right."
 8              And I guess if that's what doing your job is
 9    every day, and, you know, certainly I know there's some
10    folks I'm sure I've ruled against that are not as happy
11    with me as he was, but at least that person on that day
12    felt like that the fact even though he lost in a very
13    emotional setting something that's very important to
14    him, he came away with that feeling.  And certainly
15    that's something that I strived for then and still
16    strive to do.
17              And that I would tell any judge, when I ran
18    the new judge's school as far as my job as chair of the
19    advisory committee and work as president of the
20    association, that's what I explained to new judges.  I
21    think that's what you strive to do.  Even when you have
22    to rule against someone, that you take the time to
23    listen and you give them an opportunity to hopefully
24    understand what you're doing and why you're doing it
25    and they know that you care about what you're doing.
0100
 1    If you do that, I think the person appreciates it and
 2    leaves the system feeling better about it even though
 3    they may not come away with exactly what they want.
 4         Q.   Judge, if you have the opportunity to serve
 5    on the Supreme Court, what would you like your legacy
 6    to be upon leaving that court?
 7         A.   The highest compliment I think you pay any
 8    judge, and I don't think it has to be a fancy word, if
 9    you leave the bench and the lawyers and folks know you
10    and who appear before you and say, "He was a good
11    judge," that is quite a compliment.
12              I had an opportunity to speak a Judge Brown,
13    who died a couple of years ago from cancer.  He's a
14    wonderful judge, good man, good judge, and just
15    everybody talked to -- anybody about Judge Brown, he
16    was a good judge.  I think any time you can leave and
17    people just say that you're a good judge, I don't think
18    you have to have that flowery language all of a sudden.
19    Then it's more about you.  I think it's just that you
20    do your job and you're not the center of the issue
21    other than that the lawyers and litigants come away
22    with that.  He was a good judge.  I think if I can
23    leave and folks say, "Judge Williams was a good judge,"
24    then I think I've done my job all these years.
25         Q.   Judge, you also addressed in your sworn
0101
 1    statement the concept of judicial activism.  Could you
 2    explain for the commission a little bit about your
 3    general judicial philosophy and what role activism
 4    would play in that.
 5         A.   I think as judges, we have to understand the
 6    limited role of judges.  And I think it goes to not
 7    just judges but everyone understanding their role,
 8    whether it be the judges, the legislative branch and
 9    the executive branch.  The judges aren't there to
10    legislate.  They're not there to execute.  The
11    legislation comes from you.  That's your role.  The
12    governor in there in this state, and that's the
13    executive branch.  He's there to execute the laws.
14              I think from my point of view, it's more of
15    an understanding of, as I said, the limitations of a
16    judge and the judge's role.  Because if we don't do
17    that, we lose credibility.  If any of the three
18    overstep, then the whole system loses credibility.  And
19    that would be my fear.  Not to say, though, that I'm
20    not interested in things that you do in the law, going
21    back to my interest in seeing us improve the system.
22    And I think we can do that, we can, whether it's out
23    working, helping people to understand what we do, how
24    we do it and why we do it.
25              And that's been part of the problem is making
0102
 1    sure the public understands what's going on in the
 2    course -- and again, my interest outside the courtroom
 3    has been in some of the alternative courts in helping
 4    them over the years.
 5         Q.   Finally, Judge Williams, you have noted in
 6    your PDQ and spoken to the commission a little bit this
 7    morning about your involvement in the drug court
 8    program, particularly in Richland County.  Would you
 9    offer a little bit of an explanation of how drug court
10    works and exactly what your involvement with it is.
11         A.   Drug court is an alternative program.  It
12    started about 12 years ago.  The first one was started
13    by Judge Billy Keesley over in Lexington.  Solicitor
14    Donnie Myers.  And within the next few months, there
15    were three -- there were really four of us working on
16    it about the same time.  Judge Keesley got started with
17    his; Judge Joe Wilson, who is now retired circuit
18    judge, was working on adult drug court in Richland
19    County; I was working on a juvenile drug court in
20    Columbia; and Judge Segars-Andrews was working on a
21    juvenile court down in Charleston.
22              And these are courts that are for, again,
23    adults or juveniles who have committed crimes.  They're
24    nonviolent crimes.  And the reason we learn they
25    committed the crimes is because of they're either
0103
 1    addicted or chemically dependent on drugs.  It's an
 2    alternative court.  And it's all about accountability
 3    ultimately, but they get a lot of help.
 4              And so over the years, I think those of us
 5    who got involved in the beginning stayed very active.
 6    I'm president of the association now and stayed active
 7    in doing that.  But we watched them grow from the
 8    original four and all circuits now have at least an
 9    adult drug court, at least one, nine have juvenile drug
10    courts, two more of those in the planning stages.
11    There are some family drug courts as well that are up
12    and running, as well as mental health courts.
13              And so I guess the short version of drug
14    court, and I won't -- because I know you have a
15    schedule, I could go on a long time because it truly is
16    my passion.  They work, they save money, but it
17    involves the young person doing the juvenile court that
18    I'm involved in coming to court every week.  In
19    between, though, they're going to counseling two to
20    three days a week.  They're accountable to the
21    probation officer.  There are counselors that they go
22    and touch each week.  They drug test them numerous
23    times during the week.
24              They're on Monday nights.  And after I leave
25    here today, that's what I'm going to go do.  I do night
0104
 1    court on Monday nights and still do that and enjoy all
 2    12 years of doing it.  As long as the chief justice
 3    lets me do it, and she's been kind enough to let me
 4    continue do it, that's where I'll be.
 5              But they have to account for their conduct.
 6    If it's positive, you let them know that.  If it's
 7    negative, there's immediate response.  There may be
 8    something that was a sanction for curfews or house
 9    arrest, but it may be on that end they get locked up
10    right then and there.  And their response is, "I'm
11    going to see you next Monday."  They're in there about
12    nine to fifteen months usually and costs about 6,000 a
13    year to do a drug court, costs about 43- to send a
14    young person to the Department of Juvenile Justice.  So
15    it saves money as well.
16              It is about accountability ultimately and
17    helping the parents take charge again, the court
18    playing a role in that in the beginning.  But it's a
19    process that takes a while, but it's worked.  It's kept
20    my involvement over the years.  And again, not just in
21    my local court but trying to help see them grow when we
22    could without trying to compete with monies because
23    it's just -- as you all know, this year in particular,
24    monies have been tight, but we've continued drug court
25    through different grants and some local funding, other
0105
 1    things over the years.
 2              So it's just something that seems to work and
 3    gets great results ultimately.  I wish all of them were
 4    successful, they're not.  But the percentages are
 5    higher than those who are incarcerated, those who are
 6    on regular probation.  But it keeps them home.  You're
 7    working with both a young person and the parent.  With
 8    the adults, you're working with the adult and their
 9    family a lot of times.  So that's the short version of
10    drug court, and I stay involved with it.
11         Q.   Thank you, Judge Williams.
12              I've got just a few more housekeeping issues
13    to run through with you.
14              Have you sought or received the pledge of any
15    legislator prior to this date?
16         A.   No, sir.
17         Q.   Have you sought or been offered a conditional
18    pledge of support of any legislator pending the outcome
19    of your screening?
20         A.   No, sir.
21         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
22    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
23         A.   No, sir.
24         Q.   Have you contacted any members of this
25    commission?
0106
 1         A.   No, sir.  In passing, I'm here on some of the
 2    very social functions certainly saying hello or good
 3    evening at some of the social events, that sort of
 4    passing contact around the legislature at times where
 5    some of the events in the evenings.  Other than that,
 6    no, sir.
 7         Q.   Do you understand that you are prohibited
 8    from seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours
 9    after the formal release of the commission's report?
10         A.   Yes, sir.
11         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
12    on pledging?
13         A.   Yes, sir.
14         Q.   As a follow up, are you aware that the
15    penalties for violating pledging rules are a
16    misdemeanor and upon conviction, the violator must be
17    fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than
18    90 days?
19         A.   Yes, sir.
20         Q.   I would note that the Midlands Citizen
21    Committee reported that Judge Williams is a very
22    imminently qualified and most highly regarded candidate
23    and that he would most ably serve in this position.
24              I would just note for the record,
25    Mr. Chairman, that any concerns raised during the
0107
 1    investigation regarding the candidate were incorporated
 2    into the questioning of the candidate today.
 3              And, Mr. Chairman, I have nothing further.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Does any member
 5    of the commission have a question?
 6              Senator from Lexington.
 7              Senator Mack is yielding to the House.
 8              REP. MACK:  Thank you.  I am honored.
 9              Judge Williams, I was listening and first of
10    all, let me say I know of and was very impressed with
11    your work with drug court.  That's a very important --
12    very important entity.
13              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Thank you, sir.
14              REP. MACK:  Does good work.
15              When you made comments concerning the
16    perception of judges, and we live in a very cynical
17    society right now.  Folks are cynical as it relates to
18    banks and lending institutions, financial institutions,
19    judges, even, I don't know why, politicians.  But the
20    question is, I see that you do a lot of teaching and a
21    lot of work with young attorneys.  What would be some
22    of the things that you would try to impart to them as
23    relates to the law and in particular being a judge, to
24    try to deal with that perception because very
25    oftentimes perception is reality.  And I would imagine
0108
 1    you would want people to come into a judicial setting
 2    and, as you mentioned, feel at least they're going to
 3    get a fair shake, that the person -- the judge sitting
 4    in that chair is going to be impartial, fair.
 5              How do you deal with that perception that
 6    people have?
 7              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  I think that the best advice
 8    that I can give to young lawyers and young judges is
 9    just don't get in a hurry.  When I come over here over
10    the years, and even with the citizens screening or just
11    going to talk to a public group, it always seems as
12    though the citizens who may be upset is because they
13    feel like we get in a hurry.  We're not taking our
14    time, we're not listening, we don't care.  And that's
15    why I said there earlier that I think that's something
16    that we need to work on, that you take the time.
17              And there's ways that you can do that in a
18    courtroom and so that the litigant doesn't feel that
19    that's happening, they're getting -- not getting the
20    time or that you just are sitting there going through
21    the motions.
22              And I think it's more of just about
23    educating.  I go and I speak to Dean Montgomery's
24    family law classes each year.  And he says, "When you
25    come, tell us about the real world, not just talk about
0109
 1    the cases but about how things really work in there."
 2              I go through and talk about the types of
 3    cases people think about divorce and the juveniles who
 4    may come through there and abuse and neglect cases to a
 5    point.  But when you start putting it down to a very
 6    real point of view of, gosh, if you don't take your
 7    time as a lawyer or you don't take your time as the
 8    judge and all of a sudden a child may not be at home
 9    where they should be or they're back home and they
10    shouldn't be there and no protection, something really
11    bad happens.  You know, you're going to be remembered.
12              I use a quote from someone famous, it's Elvis
13    Presley, he said, "Do something worth remembering."
14    And I remind them that you don't want to be remembered
15    by that young person who is somewhere they shouldn't be
16    because you got in too big a hurry because you were
17    appointed to this case maybe and you're not getting
18    paid but it's part of your obligation as a young
19    lawyer.  All of a sudden you start talking about that
20    with them.  They seem to understand.
21              I think we're doing a better job with young
22    lawyers now about trying to help them understand their
23    obligation to the community and to the public when they
24    go in and they're representing people, whether it be in
25    a family court case or a criminal cases, is take your
0110
 1    time, don't get in a hurry.  It may not be billable
 2    time that you're going to collect on, but it's probably
 3    the most important thing you do.
 4              Because if you're the reason that a mother's
 5    rights are terminated because you didn't do something,
 6    you didn't take your time, and she's told by a judge,
 7    "You're no longer the mother of that child," you know,
 8    you're going to be remembered.  That's not what you'll
 9    be remembered for, whether the child should have gone
10    home or the child who gets hurt again.
11              I think the judges understand that and are
12    working really hard, but that's what I've always told
13    the young judges is take your time, don't get in a
14    hurry.  And the other thing is remember that you're
15    still a lawyer because sometimes you have to understand
16    the folks on the other side of the bench, the lawyers.
17              It's tough practicing law, so you've got to
18    balance all those things that you know how tough it is
19    and the lawyers, give them the opportunity to do their
20    jobs.  Don't get in such a hurry that they're missing
21    something that's going to hurt the litigant.  I guess
22    that's how I think.  Over the years -- and I guess the
23    story I told you from the gentlemen, I ruled against
24    him, but whatever perception I gave him, which I'm very
25    proud of that, was something he thought was good.  I'm
0111
 1    sure that didn't always happen, but I tried.
 2              I think that's what we tell all the judges,
 3    whether it be the magistrates, Family Court, Circuit
 4    Court and the appellate judges, I think that's what we
 5    have to do.  I think that's how we get that credibility
 6    back for all of us.  And I think we do have good
 7    credibility.  I don't think I'm going to say it's all
 8    negative.  I think a lot of folks do realize what we do
 9    in the court system and how we do it.  But it's
10    something I think we -- that we can improve on so they
11    understand why we are doing -- understand the thousands
12    of hours that lawyers and judges give of their time
13    outside the courtroom.  They're not initially appointed
14    when they have to do it, the pro bono cases, when
15    they're doing it free, they want to help and are
16    volunteering to help.  Just thousands and thousands of
17    hours.
18              So I think if we can do those things, that
19    will help us with the public perception.  And again,
20    taking the time.  Everyone's busy.  We got to take the
21    time.  Go talk with the class at the law school, go
22    talk to the Kiwanis Club or Sertoma Club, go talk to
23    whoever wants to hear about what we do in the system.
24    I think if we keep doing that and use all this talent,
25    like I say, there are 114 statewide judges out there
0112
 1    available to do this and as well as all the lawyers,
 2    take the time in the community.  I think that's how we
 3    improve that perception.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Lexington.
 5              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 6              Judge, I'm going to ask this question and
 7    it's not to embarrass you or anything like that, but I
 8    think it's something that needs to be answered to clear
 9    up some of the rumors and some of the innuendos that's
10    been going on since the last Supreme Court race.  And
11    in no way is it meant to create you any hardship.
12              I know the answer now, but I feel like in
13    order to get it out in the open because I'm sure this
14    will be something to -- for certain people to rely on
15    in any upcoming race if you are qualified and
16    nominated.
17              In the last race, there was campaign tactics
18    that was used in the upstate mainly, I didn't see any
19    of them around here, but it was a lot of campaign
20    tactics that was deemed inappropriate in a judgeship
21    race that went on.  And what I wanted to do, in order
22    to clear the air, is to ask you, were you directly or
23    indirectly involved in any of the campaign tactics
24    mainly in the upper part of the state in the last
25    Supreme Court race or did you have any prior knowledge
0113
 1    of those tactics before they were issued and put on the
 2    airways?
 3              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Based on the last part of
 4    your question, the airways, I'm assuming you're
 5    referring to a television ad that was placed?
 6              SEN. KNOTTS:  Yes, sir.
 7              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  No, sir.  I didn't seek
 8    anyone to do such an act and wouldn't condone such.
 9    And it wasn't necessarily for me.  If anyone saw the
10    ad, it had three legislators in there, one of the
11    legislators, in fact a supporter of mine, Mr. Mahathey,
12    who had already committed to me, I think there was one
13    that was uncommitted still and one who was Judge
14    Beatty, as I recall.  I wouldn't encourage anyone to do
15    anything that would be perceived as being negative or
16    being perceived as being negative.
17              But that is, again, I think that third
18    parties have always had some interest in judicial
19    elections, and apparently, that group took it to a
20    different level.  But that's not something I asked for
21    or condoned.
22              SEN. KNOTTS:  Do you know what group it was?
23              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Based on the newspaper
24    reports, Randy Page, I think, and the School Choice is
25    the group that I recall.
0114
 1              SEN. KNOTTS:  South Carolina Citizens for
 2    Responsible Government?  Randy Page -- is that Randy
 3    Page?
 4              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  I thought it was School
 5    Choice.
 6              SEN. KNOTTS:  Well, that is him.
 7              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  That was the gentleman who
 8    made the quote in the newspaper.
 9              SEN. KNOTTS:  The guy is from New York City,
10    that group.
11              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Again, that's something
12    that -- other than what I read in the newspaper, yes,
13    sir, it was Randy Page is the one who gave the quotes
14    as to the ad.  I think it was by School Choice.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  And you had nothing to do with
16    it or any prior knowledge or anything and wouldn't
17    condone it?
18              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  No, sir, I wouldn't condone
19    it and didn't ask for it.  And my philosophy around
20    here is trying over the years just to -- to be as
21    cordial and nice and take the time, as you know, you
22    had even commented, I worked pretty hard over the years
23    around here trying to spend time with legislators so
24    they know who I am, what my interests are, what I stand
25    for.
0115
 1              I think anyone who knows my background in the
 2    community from working with children in the community
 3    since I was 15 years off of River Drive in North
 4    Columbia to Key Club to working with drug courts.  I
 5    don't think that -- I think they know what's important
 6    to me and that's not something that I would want done.
 7              I think looking at what I do, my past, my
 8    background, my history, and again, that ad wasn't for
 9    me in particular.  But I could tell it had nothing for
10    me related in there.  In fact, it had a particular
11    legislator who was already for me that would have hurt
12    him.  So that wouldn't be a positive for me, I think,
13    going after a legislator who has already committed to
14    me.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  Yes, sir.  With that said, with
16    the other people, with Judge Beatty who is on the
17    Supreme Court and Judge Hearn, who is the chief justice
18    of the appeals court, and you serving on this appeals
19    court, I'm sure that you have probably since that time
20    had a chance to talk with those other candidates and
21    sort of clear the air up on that to make sure that they
22    understand that you had no involvement in any of that.
23    And I just want to know if -- make sure that that won't
24    have any effect on your working relationship with those
25    judges.
0116
 1              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  It hasn't so far, Senator.
 2    I see Judge Hearn on a regular basis.  I'm treasurer of
 3    our group so we talk about where the money has to go
 4    and make sure the flowers get sent to the right places.
 5    And we seem to get along fine and we work together in
 6    that regard.  We work together and haven't been on a
 7    panel since the last race, but we've worked together in
 8    the agenda meetings and certain motions and agree and
 9    disagree with each other at times.  So that's probably
10    the normal relationship.
11              I've seen Justice Beatty several times, and I
12    think we get along just fine, the best I can tell.
13              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.  I appreciate you
14    answering those questions.  It was basically for
15    clearing the air so we don't have that rumor mill out
16    there in this next race.  So thank you for answering
17    the question.
18              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Thank you, sir.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
20              I just have one for you.  What do you think
21    is the role of concurring and dissenting opinions in
22    the appellate court?
23              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Sir, I have to be honest
24    with you, I have been fortunate enough, for whatever
25    reason, I haven't necessarily -- I haven't dissented on
0117
 1    an opinion at this point after five years.  I have
 2    tried to, as I heard years ago, work in a collegial
 3    atmosphere on Court of Appeals and/or any appellate
 4    court and sometimes avoided having to do that by
 5    talking about the opinion and working to bring
 6    everybody together as all of the panel and have not had
 7    to do that.  I have a couple who dissented in the
 8    opinions I've been involved in.
 9              But I think it is such that it is important
10    enough, there's a significant difference in an area of
11    law that you believe needs to be pointed out.  The law
12    is such that when you apply the law, that you just are
13    certain that it's right, as you should be in all cases,
14    but that the panel, you just can't agree.  But it's not
15    something I think you should use too often because I
16    think everybody loses credibility.  If you use the
17    dissents too often, then the bar doesn't have the
18    guidance it needs on particular issues.
19              Same with concurring.  Concurring opinions,
20    again, if there's something important enough to maybe
21    clarify a position, then I think would be helpful as
22    guidance to the bench and bar.  But I'm probably
23    cautious about the dissent.  But certainly it's because
24    I haven't had the issue, but I will have no doubt and
25    have no problem dissenting.  But thus far I've been
0118
 1    fortunate enough to talk with the members of the panels
 2    to get the opinion and position where I felt
 3    comfortable enough that I could sign on with them.  But
 4    certainly at any point in time that I felt like the
 5    majority was wrong, I would have no problem filing a
 6    dissent.
 7              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  And in the role
 8    of concurring opinion.
 9              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Again, concurring for me
10    would be trying to clarify that I agree with the
11    result, but, I mean, I initially agree with the
12    application of law they used to get there.  In doing
13    that, could use more explanation than -- sometimes than
14    others in trying to get to that.  But ultimately, I'm
15    agreeing with the result, but I want to explain I might
16    have gotten there a little bit differently.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Professor.
18              PROF. FREEMAN:  Judge, just following up on
19    what Senator Knotts was asking.  What I'm hearing is
20    that when you're a sitting judge and should you be
21    elevated to the Supreme Court, that you will be
22    deciding cases based on your view of the facts and the
23    law without any partiality to any group, whether it's
24    plaintiffs, plaintiffs' lawyers, big business, business
25    interests, anything of that sort, that everybody who
0119
 1    comes in the courtroom, when you're the judge, has an
 2    equal chance with no partiality whatever.
 3              Is that what I'm hearing?
 4              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Absolutely.  And, Professor,
 5    if you look at what the bar said over the years and the
 6    ratings that I've gotten, and to some degree, I wonder
 7    if that's the question you asked about businesses even,
 8    is that that's what I've done.  That the bar, the
 9    ratings have said that the parties -- I'm not
10    influenced by the parties, I'm not influenced by the
11    lawyers.  And that's what the bar has said.  That's
12    what I've always done and have no reason to think that
13    I would have no plans to change.
14              PROF. FREEMAN:  And that what's the public
15    deserves.
16              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Absolutely.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any further questions?
18              If not, that includes this stage of the
19    screening process.  Number one, I want to thank you for
20    your cooperation with the staff getting all the
21    paperwork done; secondly, to remind you of the 48-hour
22    rule.  Right now, tentatively, we expect to have a
23    report delivered April 23rd.
24              Using the 48-hour period, would probably be
25    April the 28th at 12 noon, the commitments could be
0120
 1    gotten unless we come across something which causes us
 2    to have to shift those dates.
 3              Either case, we keep the record open until we
 4    publish a report.  That is not that there's anything
 5    pending, but we reserve the right to reopen these
 6    hearings if anything comes to our attention which
 7    requires us to take a look.  With that, I want to thank
 8    you for your cooperation and have a good day.
 9              JUDGE WILLIAMS:  Thank you very much.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.  We'll go
11    off the record.
12              (Judge Williams exits the room.)
13              (Off the record.)
14              (Judge Few enters the room.)
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We'll go back on
16    the record at this point.  We have before us the
17    Honorable John C. Few who is offering for Supreme
18    Court, seat number 4.
19              If you be so kind as to raise your right
20    hand.
21              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
22    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
23              JUDGE FEW:  I do.
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
25              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
0121
 1    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
 2    bench.  Our inquiry has focused on the nine evaluative
 3    criteria, and it's included a survey of the bench and
 4    the bar, a thorough study of your application
 5    materials, verification of your compliance with state
 6    ethics laws, search of newspaper articles in which your
 7    name appears, a study of previous screenings and a
 8    check for economic conflicts of interest.
 9              We have received one affidavit filed in
10    opposition to your election.  My understanding is there
11    is a witness that presented themself, Mrs. Nancy
12    Lockhart, from 185 Browntown Lane in Yemassee,
13    South Carolina.  Zip is 29945.  I'll have staff address
14    that question with you shortly.
15              I would ask you if you have any brief opening
16    statements you wish to make before I turn you over to
17    our staff for any questions.
18              JUDGE FEW:  No, sir, I don't have an opening
19    statement.
20              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  With that, if
21    you would be so kind as to answer any questions
22    Ms. Goldsmith has for you.
23              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
24              Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, I
25    have a few procedural matters to take care of first.
0122
 1              Judge Few, you have before you your personal
 2    data questionnaire that you submitted as part of your
 3    application.  Is there any amendment that you would
 4    like to make at this time to that?
 5              JUDGE FEW:  To question 40 of the personal
 6    data questionnaire, I would like to submit an amendment
 7    that lists four relatively minor expenses that I have
 8    incurred in furtherance of my application for the
 9    Supreme Court, and I have placed it in letter form.
10              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Okay.  Thank you.
11              At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to
12    ask that Judge Few's personal data questionnaire and
13    his amendment be entered as an exhibit into the record.
14              (EXHIBIT 10, Personal Data Questionnaire of
15    John C. Few, admitted.)
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
17              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
18    and the amendment will be entered into the record at
19    this time.
20              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Judge Few, you have before
21    you the sworn statement you provided with detailed
22    answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial
23    conduct, statutory qualifications, office
24    administration and temperament.
25              Is there any amendment you would like to make
0123
 1    to your sworn statement at this time?
 2              JUDGE FEW:  No, ma'am.
 3              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Mr. Chairman, I would like to
 4    ask that Judge Few's sworn statement be entered as an
 5    exhibit into the record.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 7              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
 8    entered into the record at this time.
 9              (EXHIBIT 11, Sworn Statement of John C. Few,
10    admitted.)
11              MS. GOLDSMITH:  One final procedural matter,
12    I note for the record that based on the testimony
13    contained in Judge Few's personal data questionnaire,
14    which has been included in the record with his consent,
15    Judge John Few meets the statutory requirements for
16    this position regarding age, residence and years of
17    practice.
18    BY MS. GOLDSMITH:
19         Q.   Judge Few, why do you want to serve as
20    Supreme Court justice?
21         A.   Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed being a
22    circuit judge.  It's been almost nine years, and I feel
23    that it has been a great experience for me.  And when I
24    look at all of the things that I do as a circuit judge
25    and most of them I enjoy thoroughly, the one that
0124
 1    really gets me the most excited and gets me the most
 2    charged up about what I do is the academic part of it
 3    which involves mostly what Supreme Court justices would
 4    be doing.  The studying of the law, the discussing the
 5    law in a sort of an academic environment with other
 6    justices and with lawyers in oral argument and then the
 7    writing of opinions to express the court's decision
 8    applying the law to the facts of the case.  And because
 9    it is, of course, important when -- to enjoy what you
10    do.
11              And then when I look at where I am in my
12    career and where it is that a circuit judge might go in
13    the law, of course, the Supreme Court is the top.  And
14    like everyone else who has -- well, like everybody in
15    this room who has made success and excellence an
16    important part of my career, I want to succeed in my
17    career.  I want to do well.  I want to do what I enjoy.
18    And I believe in applying those two concepts together,
19    that being on the Supreme Court is where I can serve
20    the state most effectively.
21         Q.   Thank you.
22              Can you explain to the commission how you
23    feel your legal and professional experience thus far
24    will assist you in being an effective Supreme Court
25    justice?
0125
 1         A.   Yes, ma'am.  Both during the time that I was
 2    practicing law and also during the time that I had been
 3    on the Circuit Court, I had been involved in complex
 4    litigation involving difficult legal issues all the way
 5    from the tort side of the law to the business side of
 6    the law to environmental law to lots of different
 7    areas.  And since I've been a circuit judge, of course
 8    that has included a very large percentage of criminal
 9    law.  And as a judge, I have sought out and I have been
10    sought out to handle complex cases that come before the
11    Circuit Court.
12              These are the types of cases that really are
13    the vast majority of what the Supreme Court does.  And
14    I think that handling those types of cases on the trial
15    court level, doing things like personally listening to
16    expert witnesses and the lawyers try to lay the
17    foundation to get the testimony of an expert witness
18    admitted into evidence, personally handling criminal
19    cases including I've handled -- I'm not sure exactly
20    how many but approximately seven or eight death penalty
21    cases, three of which have gone all the way to trial
22    and all the way to verdict.
23              Personally handling those types of cases
24    gives me a solid background to do the types of things
25    and handle the types of cases that the Supreme Court
0126
 1    handles because the vast majority of what the Supreme
 2    Court does comes from the Circuit Court.
 3         Q.   Judge, are there any areas, including
 4    subjective areas of the law, that you would need
 5    additional preparation in order to serve as a justice
 6    and how would you handle that additional preparation?
 7         A.   Well, there are some areas of law where I
 8    have never practiced and where I have not worked as a
 9    judge, including particularly family law.  And I have
10    done less work in the area of appellate procedure.
11              I don't really think that I have to prepare
12    more to be a justice.  Those are the types of things
13    that I would be aware of as those issues arose before
14    the court, and I would make sure that I was adequately
15    prepared.  But as I think about this question and think
16    about my sort of philosophy of being a lawyer and
17    certainly my philosophy of being a judge, is that even
18    though I may know a lot of law in some of areas where I
19    practice law where I have handled a lot of cases, I do
20    know a lot of law, I would nevertheless not attempt to
21    do my work as a Circuit Court judge or my work as an
22    appellate court judge without, again, studying it,
23    pulling the cases out, reading them, thinking about
24    them in terms of the facts of the case that is before
25    me and then working through how the resolution of that
0127
 1    case fits into the legal issues that are involved.
 2              So I'm not going to go on the law that I know
 3    already no matter whether it's something that I have
 4    practiced and worked as a judge heavily in or whether
 5    it's something that is relatively new to me.
 6         Q.   Thank you.
 7              Although you address this in your sworn
 8    statement, could you please explain to the members of
 9    the commission what you think is the appropriate
10    demeanor for a Supreme Court justice.
11         A.   Well, all judges, of course, should be
12    courteous and polite to the litigants that appear
13    before them.  In a Supreme Court situation, there's not
14    as much personal interaction between -- I mean between
15    justices and litigants.  There is, of course, personal
16    interaction between justices and lawyers and so it is
17    just as important there as it is where I sit now to be
18    courteous and polite.
19              I think that it is important to show
20    confidence.  It's important to the people who come into
21    my courtroom as a circuit judge for them to have
22    confidence that their case is going to be handled
23    fairly and intelligently and in an orderly fashion that
24    is designed to get a fair resolution as efficiently as
25    possible.  And so my attitude about my demeanor not
0128
 1    only includes those things, but I want the people who
 2    are before me to believe that I have worked hard to
 3    understand the issues that are before me and that I
 4    have worked hard to understand what their position is
 5    on those issues and that I will work hard to try and
 6    get a fair and correct resolution of the case and the
 7    issues that are in the case.
 8         Q.   Thank you, Judge.
 9              When you leave the bench, what would you like
10    your legacy to be as a justice on the Supreme Court?
11         A.   Well, I would like -- I would like for the
12    bar and for the public and for my family and for myself
13    to be able to think of me as sort of a model judge,
14    someone who is defined -- whose career is defined by
15    hard work, by integrity and fairness and also by a
16    dedication to the rule of law that we are sworn to
17    uphold.
18              I want my legacy to include the image that I
19    was a leader in the bar.  And I think that the bar now
20    probably more than ever is in a situation where it
21    needs leadership, it needs people at the top, the men
22    and women who are on the Supreme Court to demonstrate
23    professionalism in a way that the members of the bar
24    will be led to follow but also to demonstrate
25    competence.
0129
 1              There is a distressing development in my
 2    opinion among the bar to not pay attention to
 3    competence and to working hard on the individual cases.
 4    So leadership in those areas is one of the ways that I
 5    would like for my legacy -- my legacy to contain.
 6         Q.   Although you address this briefly in a
 7    question concerning judicial activism in your sworn
 8    statement, could you explain your approach to your
 9    general judicial philosophy and judicial activism?
10         A.   I'm sorry, the question is my philosophy
11    about judicial activism or my general judicial
12    philosophy?
13         Q.   Well, your general judicial philosophy and
14    how you view judicial activism.
15         A.   Okay.  Well, my general judicial philosophy
16    is to make sure that I, as a judge, and I, if I am
17    elected as a justice, understand in the very beginning
18    of the process what is the limited role of the
19    judiciary in the governmental process.
20              We have three branches of government.  It's
21    very important, I think, for government to work
22    correctly, for the judiciary to understand its role as
23    opposed to, say, the legislature.  The legislature goes
24    out and sees things that need to be fixed and will
25    aggressively take steps to solve problems in that way.
0130
 1              The judiciary does not work like that.  The
 2    judiciary sits and waits for an actual case or
 3    controversy to be presented before it.  And then when
 4    the actual case or controversy is presented before it,
 5    the thing that is most fundamental, I think, to what
 6    lawyers do and what judges do, is to work hard to
 7    identify the precise issue that needs to be resolved in
 8    order to resolve this particular controversy and
 9    focusing on the issue that is decided to be the one or
10    the several that need to be resolved and to work
11    through the law that relates to those issues, to work
12    through very carefully applying the law to the facts,
13    and then to work and very carefully to explain the
14    court's ruling in such a way that the public and the
15    bar can understand how it is that the court has
16    interpreted the law.
17              Now, on the specific question of judicial
18    activism, which I think is related, when a judge or
19    when a justice confines himself or herself to that
20    limited role of the judiciary, then the judge is not an
21    activist judge.  And there are two primary ways that I
22    think that is important for me as a judge on the
23    Circuit Court and for me as a justice on the Supreme
24    Court to understand.
25              First of all, confining what the court does
0131
 1    to the one or the several issues that actually need to
 2    be resolved to resolve the case.  And you all are
 3    familiar with the phrase dicta which means a decision
 4    or a statement by a court that was not necessary to
 5    make in order to resolve a case.  That is akin to
 6    judicial activism because it was not necessary for that
 7    judge or that court to make that judgment in order to
 8    resolve that case.
 9              The other way in which judicial activism
10    is -- comes up and in which it is very important that I
11    and I think all judges and justices understand not to
12    be judicially active is in interpreting the
13    constitution, in interpreting statutes, in applying the
14    law to specific facts, it is critical that a judge not
15    allow personal philosophies, legal or social or
16    whatever to color that judge's decision in interpreting
17    and in deciding the law.
18              And it's really sort of easy to sit here and
19    say that, but to actually sit there on the bench and to
20    test yourself and make sure that as your mind naturally
21    in human ways starts to go one way to stop and say wait
22    a minute, am I thinking this way because of some
23    personal predisposition in that direction, or am I
24    thinking this way because in is the -- these rules of
25    statutory construction lead me this way?
0132
 1              And that's a somewhat different balance to
 2    strike.  Really, it's not a balance at all.  It's a
 3    somewhat difficult trap not to fall into, and it takes
 4    discipline.  And that's one of the things I have
 5    focused on over my nine years as a judge is to develop
 6    that discipline and to make sure that I don't allow
 7    myself to let my personal philosophies color my
 8    interpretation of the law.
 9         Q.   You noted in your personal data questionnaire
10    that you have been sued by Mr. Donald Strable after you
11    were assigned as administrative judge for several
12    lawsuits that Mr. Strable filed against other judges.
13              Could you please describe the nature and the
14    current status of that lawsuit.
15         A.   Yes, ma'am.  I was assigned as the chief
16    administrative judge for all of the lawsuits that
17    Donald -- I had always called him Donald Strable -- had
18    filed.  I think that they were mostly in Laurens
19    County.  He would file lawsuits against a judge and he
20    could file -- I think he filed lawsuits against 11
21    judges or so.
22              When Judge Jim Johnson was still alive, he
23    had been given the responsibility of handling all of
24    those lawsuits, and then he sued Judge Johnson.  So the
25    Supreme Court assigned me to the case and said you
0133
 1    handle all of these cases, and if he sues you, don't
 2    recuse yourself.
 3              So before I even scheduled the first hearing,
 4    I got sued in federal court.  And fortunately, in
 5    federal court they don't allow the summons and
 6    complaint to be served when the plaintiff is not
 7    represented by a lawyer unless a federal magistrate
 8    approves it.  And in that situation, the federal
 9    magistrate did not approve it.  I was never served with
10    a summons and complaint and never answered.
11              I went to Laurens.  I scheduled the hearings
12    down there, and I went to Laurens to hold status
13    conferences and hearings on all pending motions in all
14    of his cases.  He didn't show up, and I heard the
15    motions and ruled and that was the end of it.  That was
16    three or four years ago.
17         Q.   Thank you, Judge Few.
18              I just want to address the complaint that was
19    filed against you.  I advised the commission earlier
20    this morning that Ms. Nancy Lockhart had filed a
21    complaint against you for candidacy for the Supreme
22    Court.  She also filed a complaint against you a couple
23    of years ago in 2007 when you were screened.
24              Due to the nature of her complaint and the
25    allegations that were raised, the commission decided
0134
 1    not to take testimony from her today.  They are going
 2    to rely on the testimony that was presented to them in
 3    2007 concerning those allegations.
 4              As far as any new allegations that were
 5    raised in the complaint, the commission has also
 6    decided that those did not present any substantial
 7    issues, and so they're not going to take any testimony
 8    concerning her complaint today.
 9              Just a few more housekeeping issues for you.
10    Have you sought or received the pledge of any
11    legislator prior to today?
12         A.   No, ma'am.
13         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
14    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
15    the outcome of your screening?
16         A.   No, ma'am.
17         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
18    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
19         A.   No, ma'am.
20         Q.   Do you understand that you are prohibited
21    from seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours
22    after the formal release of the commission's report?
23         A.   I do understand, yes.
24         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
25    on pledging?
0135
 1         A.   I have.
 2         Q.   Are you aware that the penalties for
 3    violating the pledging rules is that it is a
 4    misdemeanor and upon conviction, the violator would be
 5    fined not more than a $1,000 or imprisoned not more
 6    than 90 days?
 7         A.   Yes, ma'am.
 8              MS. GOLDSMITH:  I would note that the Upstate
 9    Citizens Committee reported that they have found no
10    additional information that would alter its most recent
11    report concerning Judge Few.  And for the information
12    of the committee, the most recent Upstate Citizens
13    Committee report for Judge Few stated that he was a
14    most competent and excellent jurist.  And the report
15    also stated that Judge Few's qualifications greatly
16    exceeded the expectations set forth in the evaluative
17    criteria.
18              I would also note for the record that any
19    concerns raised during the investigation regarding
20    Judge Few were incorporated into the questioning of him
21    today.
22              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
23              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Does any member of the
24    commission have a question?
25              Representative Mack.
0136
 1              REP. MACK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 2              Judge Few, in listening to your opening
 3    comments you mentioned "competence."  Am I to
 4    understand that you found sections of the judicial
 5    community in South Carolina to be incompetent?  Is that
 6    what you were saying, that you identified some
 7    incompetence?
 8              JUDGE FEW:  Well, sir, let me explain it a
 9    little further.  And in short, yes, sir.  And I think
10    it particularly comes up in criminal cases, and it is
11    particularly true in cases where defendants are
12    indigent and they have been given appointed counsel.
13    And many of the cases that we deal with are routine.
14              And really, I shouldn't say that because my
15    philosophy is that none of them are routine, but
16    because we have so many of an individual type of case
17    that is relatively minor in the course of what we do, I
18    think there's a tendency on the part of the lawyer
19    sometimes to just gloss over making sure the defendants
20    understand all the things that they need to understand
21    and kind of -- the lawyers are -- I mean, you all are
22    aware very well of the stresses that are on our legal
23    system, and particularly on the indigent defense side
24    of the legal system.  And those lawyers who get called
25    in to defend these people are given a very large
0137
 1    quantity of work to do for a very small amount of
 2    money.
 3              And there's just a natural tendency to try to
 4    sort of short circuit, I think, some of the cases.  And
 5    in many cases, it doesn't show up in court.  But other
 6    times I've seen many trials, many guilty pleas where
 7    lawyers have not done things that are important to that
 8    defendant's constitutional right to be able to freely
 9    and voluntarily make a decision about whether or not to
10    plead guilty.
11              And I mean, I can sit here all day and give
12    you examples.  I know you probably don't want to hear
13    those.  But one of the things that I think leads to
14    that is this notion that a -- or some lawyers have
15    forgotten the notion or the truth that we are not here
16    as lawyers for our benefit.  We are given the sanction
17    of the state, we are admitted into the bar of our state
18    because we have a role to play in society and it is
19    important for each individual lawyer in each individual
20    case to adhere to that lawyer's role in representing
21    that defendant.
22              It's a very disheartening thing, sir, to sit
23    and see this happen in court, and my response to it in
24    individual cases varies depending on what the situation
25    is.
0138
 1              REP. MACK:  I really perked up when you said
 2    "competence" because judgment and decision making is
 3    one thing which is -- you know, can be problematic, but
 4    competence goes to the core as to whether you feel
 5    members of the judicial community basically know what
 6    they're doing.
 7              So you -- but you would stand by the term
 8    "competence" as relates in not being properly trained
 9    and just not knowing, or do you think it's more
10    judgment and decision making?
11              JUDGE FEW:  Well, sir, I think it's Rule 1.1
12    of the Code of Professional Conduct that governs all
13    lawyers.  It has the title of "Competence" and the
14    concept of competence there takes on at least two
15    characteristics or two categories of characteristics.
16              One is what you mentioned, which is training,
17    education and keeping up with the law and doing this
18    type of thing so that you're ready to handle a case
19    when it comes in.  The other aspect of competence is
20    actually working hard on the case once it comes in,
21    learning the facts, learning that individual
22    defendant's concerns and being ready to address them.
23              Actually we do see some lawyers who are sort
24    of fundamentally incompetent, they don't know what
25    they're doing, but we also see lawyers who are
0139
 1    competent lawyers but who have not worked hard on an
 2    individual case to get it ready.  And it was really
 3    more that second one that I was talking about, although
 4    both are true.
 5              REP. MACK:  All right.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
 7              Mr. Sellers.
 8              MR. SELLERS:  Judge Few, as I sit and
 9    listened to you just now, I think there was some
10    miscommunication here.  You were talking about lawyers
11    in cases that appear before you, not judges.
12              JUDGE FEW:  Oh, yes.
13              REP. MACK:  Okay.
14              MR. SELLERS:  You were talking about
15    lawyers --
16              JUDGE FEW:  Yes.
17              MR. SELLERS:  -- who actually appear before
18    you and not your fellow --
19              JUDGE FEW:  I meant to make absolutely no
20    comment about other judges.
21              MR. SELLERS:  And when you were describing
22    your views about judicial activism, I'm not sure that I
23    fully understood them.  Do you think that there is a
24    time or that there is a place for the judiciary to make
25    law?
0140
 1              JUDGE FEW:  There are certain -- as you know,
 2    Mr. Sellers, we inherited the common law from England
 3    and where we inherited aspects of the common law that
 4    have not been taken over by legislative action --
 5    there's actually a decision recently written by Judge
 6    Kittredge in which he is relating to the dog bite case
 7    issue that explains it.  Then it is more within the
 8    province of the courts to do what you said, make law.
 9    That's a complicated phrase that I really would like to
10    tread carefully before I say I'm ready to make law.
11    But so in common law situations, it's a little bit
12    different situation.
13              There is also issues that relate to court
14    procedure, rules of evidence, things that are uniquely
15    related to actually being in court.  And while there is
16    a mechanism that those are submitted to the legislator
17    for approval, there are generally begun with the courts
18    themselves.  So in that way, yes, the courts are
19    involved in making law.  And there even are some
20    situations when it can happen without legislative
21    action.
22              But I understood the question initially to
23    relate to the idea that a judge -- or whether or not a
24    judge should feel free to step outside of that judge's
25    view of what the legislature has said in a statute or
0141
 1    what the government has said in a constitutional
 2    provision and add that judge's own personal perspective
 3    to it in order to see that a case turns out one way or
 4    the other.  And that, I believe, is judicial activism
 5    that is to be avoided.
 6              MR. SELLERS:  Thank you, judge.
 7              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
 8              I just have one more for you.  Tell me what
 9    you think the appellate court role of concurring
10    opinions and dissenting opinions are.
11              JUDGE FEW:  Many times there's going to be
12    disagreement.  There is disagreement among judges who
13    are on appellate court as to what is the significance
14    of what a majority opinion says.  And when an
15    individual justice or two individual justices believe
16    that that significance needs further explanations, then
17    a concurring opinion might be warranted.
18              And there are also going to be times when a
19    judge or a justice, I should say, agrees with the
20    outcome of a case but disagrees as to how the court
21    should get there and in that situation a concurring
22    opinion could be appropriate.
23              I don't think that a judge, just because they
24    have minor or relatively minor disagreements with what
25    the writer of the majority opinion says, should write a
0142
 1    concurring opinion all the time.  I believe that the
 2    members of the court should work hard to try to reach
 3    one opinion if they can.
 4              Now, moving to dissenting opinions, I mean,
 5    the role of a dissenting opinion is when there is
 6    disagreement about the outcome of a case.  And I
 7    simplify this, but when there is disagreement as to how
 8    a case should come out, then that would warrant the
 9    filing of a dissenting opinion.
10              But I think it's important, if I can just
11    follow up a little bit.  Because one of the most
12    important roles that the Supreme Court plays is to give
13    guidance to the bar and to the public as to how future
14    questions of law on a particular subject will be
15    decided.  So I do think it's important for justices to
16    work together when they can to have an opinion that is
17    not fragmented out into dissenting and concurring
18    opinions but rather as one opinion when that is
19    consistent with what each individual justice believes
20    to be the law.
21              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.  Senator from
22    Lexington.
23              SEN. KNOTTS:  Judge, I'm pretty well clear on
24    your answer there about the role of the judge and
25    whether -- in separation of power issues and the making
0143
 1    of laws and interpretation of law.  I need you to
 2    clarify that for me just one time on the role of a
 3    Supreme Court justice.  Is it to interpret the law?
 4    And I believe I heard you say in some cases they can
 5    actually -- should be authorized to make law?
 6              JUDGE FEW:  No, sir, I really didn't intend
 7    to say that.
 8              SEN. KNOTTS:  I need to know exactly what you
 9    intend to say on that issue.
10              JUDGE FEW:  No, sir.  I do not believe that
11    justices should make law.  I pointed out in response to
12    Mr. Sellers' question that there are areas of the law
13    where the Supreme Court is in more of a position of
14    having to say what the law is.  In other words, it
15    takes a common law question, such as this dog bite law,
16    there was never any statutory -- the legislature never
17    acted until a certain point in time on what is the rule
18    for dog bites.  And we inherited it from many, many
19    years ago.  And so the case comes before the Supreme
20    Court, there is no legislation to interpret.  There
21    simply is this rule of law that has been passed down
22    over the years by Supreme Courts.
23              SEN. KNOTTS:  Basically you're just
24    interpreting what you perceive to be the common law?
25              JUDGE FEW:  Yes, sir.
0144
 1              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.
 2              JUDGE FEW:  But to answer your question
 3    because you appear to have concern of it, no, sir, I do
 4    not believe it is the role of the Supreme Court to make
 5    law except in those very minor, limited situations.
 6    And really that's not even making law.  When I was
 7    talking about the rule making procedure, that's just
 8    initiating rules and then it goes through the
 9    legislature to see whether or not the legislature will
10    approve it.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  In other words, you are
12    interpreting -- you would be interpreting what you
13    perceive to be the common law with the hopes of sending
14    a signal to the legislature to make a legislative law;
15    is that what you're saying?
16              JUDGE FEW:  Yes, sir.  And actually I
17    think -- I personally think that the role of the
18    Supreme Court in a common law situation has changed
19    over time because of the fact that we now have
20    legislation in almost every area of the law.  So I
21    really don't think -- now maybe a hundred years ago the
22    role of the Supreme Court might be a little more active
23    in a common law situation.  But now I would be inclined
24    to think that if the legislator has not acted in an
25    area where the common law defines the rule, then that
0145
 1    would be evidence that the legislator did not intend to
 2    act and it would not be the province of the court to
 3    change what has been the common law all this time.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
 5              If not, this concludes this stage of the
 6    screening process.  Number one, I want to thank you for
 7    your cooperation with the staff, getting all the
 8    paperwork and stuff done; number two, to remind you of
 9    the 48-hour rule.  Right now we are hoping to have a
10    report out on Thursday, April the 23rd.  So the 48-hour
11    rule, that would probably open it up for commitments
12    around April 28th at around 12 noon, if the schedule
13    holds.
14              Lastly, I need to remind you that we keep the
15    record open until we publish a report, and we reserve
16    the right to go back and look at anything that we feel
17    we need to.  That's not to indicate there's anything
18    out there hanging around, but just to make that clear.
19              With that, we want to thank you for your
20    cooperation and wish you to have a good day.
21              JUDGE FEW:  Thank you, sir.  Thank you.
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  This concludes at this point
23    the morning session, so we will break for lunch and
24    resume at a later time.
25              (A lunch recess transpired.)
0146
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We're going to go back on
 2    the record.  I think that we need to go into executive
 3    session --
 4              SEN. FORD:  So moved.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  -- to tend to the review.
 6    It's been moved.  Do I hear a second?
 7              MR. SELLERS:  Second.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  There being a second, the
 9    floor is open for discussion.
10              There being no discussion, all in favor
11    please say aye.
12              (Members respond.)
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Opposed by nay.
14              Ayes have it.  Unanimous vote.  And with that
15    closed, I'm going to cut this off.
16              (The members went into executive session at
17    1:49 p.m.)
18              (The hearing was continued under a separate
19    restricted record.)
20   
21   
22   
23   
24   
25   
0170
 1                       *  *  *  *  *  *
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  The veil is lifted.  We're
 3    back in open session.  And the staff -- yes, Professor.
 4              PROF. FREEMAN:  I'm sorry, I was just going
 5    to make a motion that we find them all qualified, but I
 6    didn't mean to cut you off.  That's my motion.
 7              MR. SELLERS:  Second.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  The motion is that we find
 9    all five candidates qualified and has been moved and
10    seconded.
11              All in favor of that, please raise your hand.
12              (Members respond.)
13              MS. SHULER:  You're voting Clemmons' proxy?
14              REP. DELLENEY:  Yeah.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
16              So all have been found qualified.
17              Now, under the statute we have to select,
18    what is it, three, as the three most qualified from our
19    review of the testimony and the files.  So with that, I
20    guess I'll ask staff to call each name and we'll vote
21    and see where we are at the end of that voting until
22    three candidates get a majority.
23              MS. SHULER:  Judge Kaye Hearn.
24              Ten.  Ten counting Clemmons' proxy for
25    Delleney.
0171
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.
 2              MS. SHULER:  Honorable John C. Few.
 3              Six counting a proxy by Clemmons.
 4              Honorable Deadra L. Jefferson.
 5              Four.  Four.
 6              Honorable A.E. Morehead, III.
 7              Four, counting the proxy.
 8              Honorable H. Bruce Williams.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  I'll ask counsel
10    to announce the results.
11              MS. SHULER:  The Honorable Kaye G. Hearn with
12    ten.  The honorable John C. Few with six.
13    Judge Jefferson has four.  Judge Williams has five.
14    Judge Morehead has four.  So we have a runoff between
15    Jefferson, Williams and Morehead.
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Proceed to call the names.
17              MS. SHULER:  Judge Deadra L. Jefferson.
18              Three.
19              Judge A.E. Morehead, III.
20              Four, counting the proxy.
21              Judge H. Bruce Williams.
22              Four.
23              So it's Judge Jefferson with three,
24    Judge Williams with four and Morehead with four.  That
25    can't be.
0172
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is something wrong?  Go back
 2    and vote again, then, just to get it right.  It should
 3    be ten votes.
 4              MS. SHULER:  Let's start again.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We miscounted or something.
 6              MS. SHULER:  Second round, Judge Jefferson.
 7              Three -- four.
 8              Judge Morehead.
 9              Four, with the proxy.
10              You only get one vote.
11              MR. FIFFICK:  Did you vote twice?  Did you
12    vote for Jefferson the first time?
13              MS. MCLESTER:  Right.
14              MR. FIFFICK:  You can only vote for Jefferson
15    or Morehead.
16              MS. MCLESTER:  Okay.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Everybody only gets one vote
18    on this one.  Not everybody gets three like we did
19    before.
20              MS. SHULER:  So four for Judge Jefferson and
21    three for Judge Morehead.  And Bruce Williams, three.
22              So four, three and three.
23              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll have to continue.  All
24    right.
25              MS. SHULER:  Let's vote again.  All right.
0173
 1    Let's try again.
 2              Judge Jefferson's third ballot.  One vote
 3    each.
 4              And it's six to a majority.
 5              One, two, three.
 6              Judge Morehead.  Three.
 7              Judge Williams.  Four.
 8              Fourth ballot.  Judge Jefferson.
 9              Judge Morehead.  Three.
10              Judge Williams.  Three.
11              Four for Jefferson, three for Williams, and
12    three for Morehead.
13              Fifth ballot.  Judge Jefferson.
14              One vote each, six to win.
15              Four.
16              Judge Morehead.  One, two, three, four.
17              Judge Williams.  One, two.
18              All right.  Four, four and two.
19              Sixth ballot.
20              SEN. FORD:  Who's left?
21              MS. SHULER:  The same three.
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  What was that vote total on
23    that last one?
24              MS. SHULER:  Jefferson was four; Morehead was
25    four; and Williams was two.
0174
 1              SEN. FORD:  You don't eliminate nobody or
 2    what?
 3              MS. SHULER:  Sixth ballot.
 4              Judge Jefferson.  Four.
 5              Judge Morehead.  Four.
 6              Judge Williams.  Two.
 7              Same vote, four, four and two.
 8              Seventh ballot.  Judge Jefferson.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  This is which ballot now?
10              MS. SHULER:  Seventh.
11              One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
12              Judge Morehead.  Three.
13              And Judge Williams.
14              All right.  Judge Jefferson prevails with
15    seven votes; Judge Morehead, three; Judge Williams,
16    zero.
17              Judge Jefferson is the third candidate.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Everybody
19    satisfied with the procedure?
20              Thank you all for deliberation.  All right.
21    We will stand at ease momentarily while we get a
22    candidate.
23              (Off the record.)
24              (Mr. Campbell enters the room.)
25              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll go back on the record
0175
 1    at this point.  We have before us Mr. Rame L. Campbell
 2    who is offering for the Circuit Court, Tenth Circuit,
 3    seat number 1.
 4              Good afternoon, sir.  If you would be so kind
 5    as to raise your right hand.
 6              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
 7    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 8              MR. CAMPBELL:  I do.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
10              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
11    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
12    bench.  Our inquiries focused on our nine evaluative
13    criteria and has included a survey of the bench and the
14    bar, a thorough study of your application materials, a
15    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
16    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
17    appears, a study of previous screenings and a check for
18    economic conflicts of interest.
19              We have received no affidavits filed in
20    opposition to your election, no witnesses are present
21    to testify.  I would ask you if you have any brief
22    opening statement you would like to make at this time
23    prior to my turning you over to counsel for a few
24    questions.
25              MR. CAMPBELL:  I appreciate the opportunity
0176
 1    of being here and thank the commission for the time and
 2    effort you put into this.  I feel this is a fair
 3    process for screening out the most qualified judicial
 4    applicants.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
 6              Ms. Wells.
 7              MS. WELLS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 8              Mr. Campbell, you have before you the
 9    personal data questionnaire you submitted as part of
10    your application.  Is there any amendment you wanted to
11    make at this time?
12              MR. CAMPBELL:  No, ma'am.
13              MS. WELLS:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
14    would like to ask that Mr. Campbell's personal data
15    questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
16    record.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Is there any
18    objection?
19              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
20    will be entered into the record at this time.
21              (EXHIBIT 12, Personal Data Questionnaire of
22    Rame L. Campbell, admitted.)
23              MS. WELLS:  Thank you.
24              Mr. Campbell, you also have before you the
25    sworn statement you provided with detailed answers to
0177
 1    over 30 questions regarding judicial conduct, statutory
 2    qualifications, office administration and temperament.
 3              Is there an amendment you want to make at
 4    this time to your sworn statement?
 5              MR. CAMPBELL:  No, ma'am.
 6              MS. WELLS:  Mr. Chairman, I would ask at this
 7    time that the sworn statement be admitted into the
 8    record as an exhibit.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
10              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
11    entered into the record at this time as well.
12              (EXHIBIT 13, Sworn Statement of Rame L.
13    Campbell, admitted.)
14              MS. WELLS:  Thank you.
15              I note for the record that based on the
16    testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ,
17    Mr. Campbell meets the statutory requirements for this
18    position regarding age, residence and years of
19    practice.
20    BY MS. WELLS:
21         Q.   Mr. Campbell, could you please tell the
22    members of the commission why you would like to now
23    serve as the Circuit Court judge?
24         A.   Yes, ma'am.  As you can probably see from my
25    PDQ, I come from a family that's been public-service
0178
 1    oriented.  And in the 12 years that I've been
 2    practicing since 1997, one of the things I have found
 3    and discovered is that lawyers can make a difference in
 4    the communities, and people look up to lawyers to make
 5    a difference.
 6               And one of the things I feel I can do, bring
 7    to the bench is that I've been exposed to both areas of
 8    the law, civil and criminal.  I've been in public
 9    service.  I've been in the private sector.  I've
10    handled -- I dealt with clients and I've handled
11    positions in Magistrate Court, Circuit Court, Federal
12    Court, Family Court.  And I feel like I'm bringing that
13    unique perspective, at least being exposed and touched
14    on both areas of the law.
15              And one of the things is is that when you're
16    a prosecutor, and you've all heard it, a prosecutor's
17    job is to do justice and not seek just convictions.
18    And I take that serious because one of the things in my
19    profession is that I deal with a person's liberties and
20    constitutional rights.  I have basically the power to
21    take it away, and I make decisions every day that
22    affects people's lives.
23              And I feel I can bring that type of sense of
24    responsibility because I do feel it's very important.
25    And I feel I can bring that to the bench along with my
0179
 1    work ethic, demeanor, temperament and character and
 2    make a difference in my community.
 3         Q.   Thank you, Mr. Campbell.
 4              Although you addressed this in your sworn
 5    affidavit, would you please tell the members of the
 6    commission what you think is the appropriate demeanor
 7    for a Circuit Court judge.
 8         A.   Yes, ma'am.  I think the Circuit Court judges
 9    in court should be firm, that they're in charge of the
10    courtroom, but should be courteous and polite to all
11    the court personnel, the attorneys, the litigants.  A
12    lot of times this is the only times the litigants will
13    have their opportunity to be heard in court and the
14    only exposure to it.  You want them to come out of it
15    with at least win, lose or draw, a positive -- positive
16    feeling that they can have their matters heard no
17    matter who they are.
18              And to accomplish this, I feel the judge is
19    approachable, maybe a little bit predictable.  And by
20    that, means that such as pleas, a person can enter into
21    a plea of a prosecutor, as well as a defense attorney,
22    enter into a plea and a judge they've never been before
23    comes in and then doesn't take the recommendation they
24    had worked out.  And that effectively can shut down the
25    court for the entire week.
0180
 1              I feel that if the attorneys can approach the
 2    judge and talk to them and get a sense of how things
 3    are going to run and work and that he is fair and
 4    courteous to everybody, that it just makes the whole
 5    process run smoother and cases will move through.
 6         Q.   With that in mind, Mr. Campbell, what
 7    suggestions would you offer for improving the backlog
 8    of cases that currently exist on the docket in Circuit
 9    Court both for the common pleas and for the general
10    sessions?
11         A.   Of course, the obvious answer is you need
12    more people on the bench, but that's not -- you know,
13    that's just one solution.  That's not going to happen
14    during these times of economic hardship we're having.
15    Because you also -- besides more judges, you'd have to
16    have more prosecutors and more defense attorneys and
17    more P.D.'s to help move the system.
18              So one of the things is, since that's not
19    going to happen at this point in time, is the judge has
20    to be available, has to work basically Monday through
21    Friday.  One of the areas is -- especially in civil
22    court is the use of pretrial conferences, roster
23    meetings, ADR, mediation to help move things along.  I
24    think in the civil court that has helped.
25              In criminal court, I feel that maybe the use
0181
 1    of some roster meetings to help facilitate bringing the
 2    parties together.  The judge is in a unique position
 3    that he can get the parties together and has the
 4    influence to get the P.D., solicitor's office to make
 5    sure they're there, the public and private bar to talk
 6    about how things are going to run.
 7              One of the areas, I think, in alleviating
 8    problems is we can build as many prisons as you want,
 9    but you don't have them if everybody gets back out, is
10    that we have to look at alternative methods of moving
11    cases.  And I call them diversion programs as the use
12    of PTI, pretrial intervention, mental health court.
13    The big one I think and that I'm a fan of is drug court
14    because most of our cases deal with drugs in the
15    criminal world.  If you can get people out and off of
16    drugs, then hopefully they'll quit committing crimes.
17    The use of programs such as that I think would help.
18         Q.   When you leave the bench, Mr. Campbell, what
19    would you like your legacy to be as a judge of the
20    Circuit Court?
21         A.   Well, I'd always like it to be that he was
22    faithful to God, family and country.  That he could be
23    talked to, he was fair to everybody no matter who they
24    are, their social or economic backgrounds.  He treated
25    everybody like he -- that I would want to be treated.
0182
 1    And I feel that if you leave that type of legacy,
 2    you've done a good job.
 3         Q.   I have a few housekeeping matters.
 4              Mr. Campbell, have you sought or received the
 5    pledge of any legislator prior to this date?
 6         A.   No, ma'am.
 7         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
 8    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
 9    the outcome of your screening?
10         A.   No, ma'am.
11         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
12    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
13         A.   No, ma'am.
14         Q.   Have you contacted any members of the
15    commission?
16         A.   No, ma'am.
17         Q.   Do you understand that you're prohibited from
18    seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the
19    formal release of the commission's report?
20         A.   Yes, ma'am.
21         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
22    on pledging?
23         A.   Yes, ma'am.
24         Q.   As a follow up, are you aware of the
25    penalties for violating the pledging rules, that is, it
0183
 1    is a misdemeanor and upon conviction, the violator must
 2    be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more
 3    than 90 days?
 4         A.   Yes, ma'am.
 5              MS. WELLS:  Mr. Chairman, I would note that
 6    the Upstate Citizens Committee reported that based on
 7    the evaluative criteria that his committee is charged
 8    with examining regarding each candidate, Mr. Campbell
 9    meets and exceeds the requirements in each area.  I
10    would also note for the record that any concerns raised
11    during the investigation regarding the candidate were
12    incorporated in the questioning of the candidate today.
13              I have no further questions.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Any member of
15    the commission have a question?
16              Senator from Charleston.
17              SEN. FORD:  Mr. Campbell, tell me about the
18    backlog in your circuit.  That's Anderson including
19    what counties?
20              MR. CAMPBELL:  Anderson includes Oconee and
21    Anderson.
22              SEN. FORD:  So you don't have no serious
23    backlog?
24              MR. CAMPBELL:  We have a backlog.  Things
25    seem to be running pretty smooth.  On the criminal
0184
 1    side, we have about 10,000 cases pending between both
 2    counties.  And I think our circuit is one of the best
 3    in the state -- the last numbers to come out of moving
 4    cases and keeping them in the 180 days on the general
 5    sessions side.
 6              SEN. FORD:  Do you all have any serious crime
 7    in that area?
 8              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
 9              SEN. FORD:  What do you consider serious
10    crime?
11              MR. CAMPBELL:  Homicides and armed robberies.
12              SEN. FORD:  In Anderson and Oconee?
13              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
14              SEN. FORD:  Would you ever assign a public
15    defender to a murder case?
16              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, they normally receive as
17    part of their position, if the person doesn't qualify
18    to retain or has the ability to retain a private
19    counsel, so, yes, sir, they automatically do unless
20    there's a conflict.
21              SEN. FORD:  What about a capital punishment?
22              MR. CAMPBELL:  If they meet the criteria and
23    the code is set out to sit first or second chair, yes,
24    sir.
25              SEN. FORD:  A public defender?
0185
 1              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  They have to meet a
 2    minimum of -- whether it's five years of experience.
 3    You have to have a number of felony cases they have had
 4    to try.  I forget, I can't remember all the entire
 5    criteria.  But if that person meets it, yes, they can
 6    handle a capital murder case and sit first chair.
 7              And then second chair, usually is it either
 8    goes to another private attorney or another member of
 9    the bar who will handle it and usually does not have
10    that much experience that can qualify for a capital
11    case.
12              SEN. FORD:  But usually on capital cases,
13    don't the solicitor himself handle those cases?
14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
15              SEN. FORD:  You wouldn't sign no five-year,
16    six-year, seven-year public defender to a capital
17    punishment case?
18              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, it depends.  You know,
19    people talk about the public defender's office that
20    they're like second-rate lawyers but that's not the
21    case.  Public defenders are in the courtroom every week
22    trying cases.  They're involved in the litigation and
23    handling the cases, whether it's a violent crime or
24    nonviolent crime.  So the fact that they may have only
25    practiced six or seven years, my -- what I have
0186
 1    observed doesn't really matter because they have had
 2    the experience that other private attorneys can't get
 3    because they are in the courtroom.  They deal with the
 4    legal issues such as your Sperber issues, getting
 5    bodily fluids from an individual.  You know, in your
 6    Jackson v. Deno hearings, if they did a voluntary
 7    statement, they had to get all of that evidence in or
 8    at least cross-examine that stuff.
 9              Competency hearings, you know, they have --
10    they're exposed to that so they know what's going on
11    and how to handle it and deal with it.  Identification
12    type hearings.  And a lot of people, you know, you can
13    have a person who's been in private practice for 20
14    years and has not been involved in the courtroom that
15    much.  So the public defenders can handle the matter
16    and most of them do and do a good job.
17              SEN. FORD:  Okay.  Now, can the Senate
18    have -- I think it was five or six years ago we
19    appointed a task force to look at the whole judicial
20    system.  And Anderson usually -- I mean, you all never
21    came up, your circuit never came up for any kind of
22    discussion because -- maybe because of the type of
23    crimes.
24              Let's say you have to visit a circuit like
25    Charleston.  And would the answer remain the same,
0187
 1    would you use a public defender in a capital punishment
 2    case?
 3              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
 4              SEN. FORD:  In Charleston?
 5              MR. CAMPBELL:  I don't know the background of
 6    what's going on in Charleston.
 7              SEN. FORD:  They have about 35,000 pending
 8    cases.  I think the public defender office, they have
 9    thousands of cases per person.  How would a public
10    defender go up against the kind of lawyers that we have
11    in Charleston?  I mean, you've got some of the best --
12    we have some of the best prosecutors probably in the
13    state in Charleston.  They worked in that Solicitor's
14    Office for almost 20 years.  You got about seven of
15    them been working there as long as 20 years.  And you
16    would put a public defender up against those type guys?
17              MR. CAMPBELL:  If they meet the statutory
18    requirements and are qualified --
19              SEN. FORD:  You mean the statutory
20    requirement of like five, six, seven, eight years?
21              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  If they can meet
22    the requirements and they have met the requirements and
23    they can handle themselves and show they can handle
24    felony-type cases, I have no problems with it.
25              SEN. FORD:  Even with the backlog of cases
0188
 1    that each one of them have?
 2              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  That's typically
 3    what their job is.
 4              SEN. FORD:  We're talking about capital
 5    punishment cases.
 6              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  I'm involved in one
 7    of them right now.  In this case, the one I'm dealing
 8    with is going to be tried July 6.  The first chair
 9    initially was the public defender's office.  They
10    handled the first case and then they conflicted out.
11    And now the judge appointed private attorneys to handle
12    the first chair, but the second chair is a public
13    defender.
14              And like I said, public defenders, people
15    give them a bad rap, but most of them are very
16    competent and able.  I've always had -- my personal
17    experience with them has been very good.  And they know
18    how to do the job they're doing.  They don't get enough
19    credit for what they're doing.
20              SEN. FORD:  Mr. Campbell, I would never give
21    them a bad rap.  That's why we're trying to equalize
22    them with solicitors and everything else.  We're trying
23    to give them what they need to practice with.
24              But in Charleston, you're talking about a
25    whole different monster.  Almost 35- to 40,000 cases
0189
 1    that is pending, five, six, seven years.  We want to
 2    lock them up if they're guilty and throw away the key
 3    if necessary.  But we don't want no six, seven, eight,
 4    nine-year public defender that is going to get thrown
 5    out by some court because they didn't have enough
 6    experience going up there against a capital punishment.
 7    Next thing you know, that puts them back in the street
 8    because of the fact that they didn't have good defense.
 9    That's why I want to find out, would you really do
10    that?
11              I'm not talking about Anderson because I
12    can't even imagine crimes in Anderson.  But in
13    Charleston, we have serious, serious crimes.
14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
15              SEN. FORD:  If you ever come to Charleston,
16    would you assign a young public defender to one of
17    those prosecutors that is well greased, 20 years, 30
18    years experience?
19              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  If that person met
20    the criteria, I would.  One of the things is that I
21    thought was good is that the public defender's office
22    went to the same type of system that the solicitor's
23    office has.
24              SEN. FORD:  No, we did that.  We did that.
25    Senator McConnell and Senator Knotts and myself,
0190
 1    because we want to see people, if you commit a crime,
 2    you need to go to jail.  But we don't want no cases
 3    thrown out because of no --
 4              MR. CAMPBELL:  One of the things you have is
 5    that it's not just the defense.  A lot of the cases in
 6    capital have been overturned based on what the
 7    Solicitor's Office has done, based on what the judge
 8    has done or said on the bench as well as the defense.
 9              Typically the way it seems to be going in
10    capital litigation cases is that you try it the first
11    time and it comes and gets overturned for some reason
12    and you try it again.  And capital litigation is a
13    whole unique beast in and of itself.
14              SEN. FORD:  Let me ask you another question.
15    Last question.  Tell me about your work habits and what
16    type of work habits judges have in your circuit.  Do
17    they work five days a week?  Do they work eight hours a
18    day?  12 hours a day?  Or do they have Thursdays and
19    Fridays off?
20              MR. CAMPBELL:  My experience in Anderson is
21    they're there five ways a week.
22              SEN. FORD:  What time?
23              MR. CAMPBELL:  Usually start at 9:00 on
24    Monday morning.  And you know like --
25              SEN. FORD:  They start at 9:00 Monday
0191
 1    morning?
 2              MR. CAMPBELL:  They're there around 9:00.
 3              SEN. FORD:  No, I know they're there.  Do
 4    they start working at 9:00 Monday morning?
 5              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, it depends.  If you're
 6    talking about working taking the bench or are they in
 7    chambers working on cases?  They're there and they're
 8    doing something.  That's always been my experience.
 9    Just because a judge is not on the bench doesn't mean
10    they're not working.  A lot of times they're in
11    chambers working on issues between whether it's a civil
12    case, the plaintiff's attorney or defense attorney, or
13    another criminal case upcoming, talking about the legal
14    issues that may need to be addressed before they go out
15    on the bench or on the record.
16              So Anderson, I think we have been blessed
17    with the quality judges that work.  You can find them
18    on Friday afternoons signing orders and finishing up
19    paperwork that they haven't had time to get to during
20    the week.
21              And personally, like my work ethic is I drop
22    my daughter off at day school a block from the
23    courthouse at 8:30.  I go straight to the courthouse,
24    and I work until 5:00 or 5:30, depending on what type
25    of court.  If I'm in a trial, of course, you stay in
0192
 1    there until the job is done.
 2              If it's pleas, it's when the judge breaks.
 3    It's usually between 5:00 and 5:30.  And then because
 4    like you talk about case load, a lot of times I take
 5    work home and work on the weekends.  It's about the
 6    only way you can keep up with it because there's so
 7    much of it.
 8              SEN. FORD:  All right.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Lexington.
10              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
11              As a follow up to that question with the
12    senator, I think you were talking about your resident
13    judges, right?
14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  I'm talking about judges
16    throughout the state that are filtered in through your
17    county to handle cases.  What has been your opinion of
18    some of the judges that come in, their work ethics,
19    when do they start court and when do they leave for the
20    week?
21              MR. CAMPBELL:  Most of the judges that we've
22    had come in, you know, we've had Judge Lloyd, Judge
23    Welmaker.
24              SEN. KNOTTS:  I don't care about the names.
25    I just want to know what's your opinion of the way
0193
 1    judges start court in order to take care of the case
 2    load.
 3              MR. CAMPBELL:  I think the judges we've had
 4    in Anderson and Oconee, I can especially speak for
 5    Anderson.
 6              SEN. KNOTTS:  I'm not talking about Anderson
 7    and Oconee.  I'm talking about these judges -- you
 8    think you're going to get elected to a judge just to
 9    serve Anderson and Oconee?
10              MR. CAMPBELL:  No, sir.  When I was
11    working --
12              SEN. KNOTTS:  I mean, you're going to be
13    going around the state.
14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Right, you travel.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  You're going to travel.  These
16    traveling judges that come into your county, what is
17    their work ethic?
18              MR. CAMPBELL:  What I have observed is they
19    do pretty good.  They show up on Monday mornings and
20    they work until the work is finished.  I haven't had
21    any complaints.  You know, you hear about --
22              SEN. KNOTTS:  You are a prosecutor, right?
23              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
24              SEN. KNOTTS:  You would see it?
25              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.
0194
 1              And one of the things is is that especially
 2    on my experience and what I have observed, but, you
 3    know, they work until the court -- if they come in,
 4    whether from Columbia or Charleston or Myrtle Beach and
 5    they come in and they hear our cases and we start on
 6    Monday, they stay there till we're done.
 7              SEN. KNOTTS:  When is that usually?
 8              MR. CAMPBELL:  Usually starts at Monday
 9    morning, they're usually there at 9:00.  Well, the
10    roster meeting -- not the roster, but the jury, if
11    we're doing jury trials that week, they start, they
12    come in and they qualify the jury at 9:30 and we go
13    from there.
14              And it's been my experience that the outside
15    visiting judges have stayed and worked until either
16    trials are finished, and if they finish on Wednesday,
17    they're there Thursday working on pleas.  And then on
18    Fridays, a lot of times they're doing probation
19    revocation.  That's typically how our court schedules
20    them.
21              And I know what you're talking about and
22    getting at.  I have seen and had experienced in the
23    past where judges would come and things would break
24    down and they would leave.  But in my recent memory,
25    the judges I have had and been before, they have been
0195
 1    prompt and done the job they have been asked to do.
 2              SEN. KNOTTS:  What would be your work ethic
 3    if you were, say, a traveling judge, not just in your
 4    county because you being in your county, I expect you
 5    to be there all the time and be available, but in
 6    traveling throughout the state, what would be your work
 7    ethic and when would you show up in, say, Myrtle Beach
 8    or Charleston and Florence, how would you stay?
 9    Because all of them, from what we understand, they got
10    plenty of cases to try all week long.
11              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir.  The same as my work
12    ethic now.  I would show up and start -- typically
13    around 9:00 is when court normally starts.  Because,
14    like, our courthouse opens at 8:30 and most courthouses
15    do open around 8:30.  By the time your court personnel
16    gets everything situated and ready, it's usually around
17    9:00 when things start rolling.
18              I'm always early.  I was early for this
19    hearing.  And you get there early so you can deal with
20    the issues that may crop up prior to taking the bench.
21    And you take the bench and you stay on the bench.  In
22    my opinion, I'd work until they got finished with what
23    they needed to do.  And then when court breaks down --
24    you can take a term of court in general sessions.  You
25    got 15 trials on the docket, that court all of a sudden
0196
 1    the first case pleads, the rest of them all of a sudden
 2    plead.  So what do you do next?
 3              Well, typically bring people in over at the
 4    jail, work some pleas, work probation.  If you talk to
 5    your clerk ahead of time and things happen to break
 6    down, have a backup plan available such as you can
 7    have, you know, conference hearings, status conference
 8    hearings on the civil side and have those attorneys
 9    come in, have some rulings made and have some hearings
10    heard.
11              Because that court time is basically precious
12    and you've got to use it to its maximum ability to get
13    rid of the backlog.  That's the only way we are going
14    to move cases.  So my work ethic is -- I'm there until
15    the job is done and how long it takes.
16              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.  Let me ask you one more
17    question.  I noticed in your personal data
18    questionnaire that you were not admitted to practice in
19    Georgia.
20              MR. CAMPBELL:  That's correct.
21              SEN. KNOTTS:  Why?
22              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, back then you could take
23    the Georgia and South Carolina bar at the same time.
24    At the point in time I did not know where I was going
25    to practice.  I had sent out applications to Georgia
0197
 1    and South Carolina.
 2              Solicitor Randolph Murdaugh down in Hampton
 3    called me up and said, "I'm offering you a job."
 4              At this point it was too late for me to get
 5    my money back from the Georgia bar, and I did not even
 6    study for it.  I had concentrated strictly on South
 7    Carolina's bar, which I passed on the first try.  But
 8    it was too late at that point in time for me to back
 9    out and get my money back on the Georgia bar.
10              SEN. KNOTTS:  Did you take the bar?
11              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir, I did.
12              SEN. KNOTTS:  Did you pass it?
13              MR. CAMPBELL:  The South Carolina I did.
14              SEN. KNOTTS:  No, the Georgia --
15              MR. CAMPBELL:  No, I didn't.
16              SEN. KNOTTS:  You did not?
17              MR. CAMPBELL:  No, sir.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is that all the questions?
20              Any further questions?
21              MR. SELLERS:  Could I ask him one?
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes, sir, Mr. Sellers,
23    please.
24              MR. SELLERS:  Mr. Campbell, I heard a lot
25    about your experience in criminal court.  What is your
0198
 1    experience in civil court?  What have you done?  Have
 2    you tried civil cases as well?
 3              MR. CAMPBELL:  Yes, sir, I have.  I did
 4    around four years, I was in a general practice law
 5    firm.  You take everything that walks through the door
 6    and handle it.  Basically on the civil side, I had
 7    tried civil cases in the civil area.  Soft-tissue-type
 8    cases, personal-injury-type cases.  I was exposed to a
 9    broad area of the general practice.  You go in business
10    law, personal injury, wrongful death, workers' comp, so
11    I handled a whole bunch from both sides, whether it was
12    the plaintiff's side or at times the defense side.
13    Mainly from the plaintiffs, but I had represented
14    people as a defense attorney.
15              And besides being exposed to the trial work,
16    I've done a lot of the discovery, the interrogatories,
17    going through mediation, depositions, that type work,
18    so I have had experience and have done a lot of that
19    type of work.
20              MR. SELLERS:  What percentage of your
21    practice would you say was devoted to the civil side?
22              MR. CAMPBELL:  When I was in private
23    practice, I would say approximately 40 percent.  It
24    was -- you know, I was doing a lot of criminal defense
25    work at the time, and I was doing the private practice
0199
 1    and also had a good family practice going, too.
 2              MR. SELLERS:  Thank you.
 3              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any further questions?
 4              SEN. FORD:  Yeah, Mr. Chairman.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes, sir, Senator.
 6              SEN. FORD:  Charleston.  I mean, I know this
 7    is just not a Charleston thing, but that's where I'm
 8    from.  We have a serious problem.  We're building
 9    another jail.  When you look at the type of people in
10    jail now in Charleston that's I think the Ninth
11    Circuit, you have a lot of domestics.  A lot of not
12    misdemeanor but what we consider small drug cases, not
13    the serious stuff.
14              MR. CAMPBELL:  Right.
15              SEN. FORD:  And they're crowding the jail and
16    you got all of backlogs.  I mean hardcore criminals in
17    Charleston in the Ninth Circuit.  What kind of
18    suggestion would you come up with to aid us in that if
19    you make it to the bench?
20              MR. CAMPBELL:  Well, one of the things is,
21    especially dealing with drug cases, is most of the -- I
22    would say most of your crimes -- I would say 70,
23    80 percent of your crimes all relate back to drugs,
24    whether a person is shoplifting, forging checks,
25    financial transaction, card fraud, larcenies or
0200
 1    burglaries all to support a habit.
 2              A lot of your offenders that are locked up
 3    have a drug habit.  I mean, there's no question about
 4    it.  My opinion has always been on those who have the
 5    habit, try to facilitate a sentence in order to get
 6    them some help so they can get them off of dope and
 7    quit committing crimes.  At least that's what you would
 8    hope they would do.
 9              And your drug dealers, the ones that are
10    pushing it to make money, they need to stay in prison.
11    They're the ones that are ruining our community, making
12    our streets unsafe, making our neighborhoods unsafe,
13    those people need to be in prison.  But the ones that
14    got the habit and have a problem they're trying to
15    overcome, I'm a believer in the drug court system.
16    That is, I know it's in just a couple of areas that has
17    been going on to try to get these people who want help
18    to get off the dope.  And that's a way that doesn't
19    cost the taxpayers as much money.
20              You can build as many prisons as you want,
21    but I think you have to have some other programs
22    because these people, as you go in, they have a drug
23    habit, if you stick them in, when they come out, all
24    they're going to know is crime.
25              SEN. FORD:  You have a lot of child support
0201
 1    in the prison.  What would you do about that?
 2              MR. CAMPBELL:  I couldn't --
 3              SEN. FORD:  Child support case.
 4              MR. CAMPBELL:  Child support?  Well,
 5    typically that's handled in family court, it's not a
 6    circuit level.
 7              SEN. FORD:  Okay.  Let's say Charleston
 8    people want to end crime, put these guys in jail.  The
 9    jail is crowded with drugs, drug support -- drug cases
10    and a lot of child support cases.  I mean at the
11    prisons, a little of bit goes down deep.  And those
12    kind of hardcore criminals are still on the street.
13    Would you have some kind of relationship maybe with
14    other judges and solicitors to try to resolve that?  I
15    mean, we need help bad in this Ninth.
16              MR. CAMPBELL:  Everybody has to work together
17    with the system.  Like I said earlier, you can have as
18    many judges as you want, but if you don't have the
19    public defender's office staff, the solicitor's office
20    staff, the private bar and the clerk's office working
21    together, you're not going to move cases and help
22    alleviate the backlog that you have.  There's not a
23    quick-fix solution to what our problem we're currently
24    facing, especially in times of the budget crunches.
25              The thing the judges have to look at is the
0202
 1    type of programs without having to send people to
 2    prison.  Restitution centers have always been a good
 3    idea to try to get people back their money and help the
 4    person that committed the crime.  The drug courts, you
 5    have the mental health courts, the diversionary type
 6    programs are good to get the soft-type criminals.  But
 7    the hard criminals, the ones that are doing the
 8    burglaries, the armed robberies, the shootings and the
 9    stabbings and the killings, you know, they need to be
10    behind bars to make our communities a safer place.
11    Because a lot of times you have and a lot of the crimes
12    are committed by repeat offenders, and there's no
13    question about that.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Any further
15    questions?  All right.
16              This concludes this stage of the screening
17    process.  Several things.  One, we want to thank you
18    for your cooperation with our staff with getting things
19    done; secondly, remind you of the 48-hour waiting
20    period.  Right now, we're hoping to have a report out
21    on April 23rd.  If that holds, then around April the
22    28th at around 12 noon I think will probably be when
23    that 48-hour period will run.  We will confirm that to
24    you or you can call the staff for confirmation on that.
25              Lastly, we keep the files open until we issue
0203
 1    a report.  That's not to indicate there's any
 2    outstanding matter, but we retain the liberty of
 3    calling you back should a question arise.
 4              With that, we thank you for your time and for
 5    coming.  Thank you, sir.
 6              Take a moment's break.
 7              (Mr. Campbell exits the room.)
 8              (A recess transpired.)
 9              (Mr. McIntosh enters the room.)
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll go back on the record
11    at this point.
12              We have before us Mr. Lawton McIntosh.  He is
13    running for Circuit Court, Tenth Circuit, seat number
14    1.
15              Good afternoon, sir.
16              MR. MCINTOSH:  Good afternoon.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  If you would be so kind to
18    raise your right hand.
19              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
20    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
21              MR. MCINTOSH:  I do.
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
23              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
24    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
25    bench.  Our inquiries focused on our nine evaluative
0204
 1    criteria that's included a survey of the bench and the
 2    bar, a thorough study of your application materials, a
 3    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
 4    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
 5    appears, a study of previous screenings, if any, and a
 6    check for economic conflicts of interest.
 7              We have received no affidavits filed in
 8    opposition to your election.  No witnesses are present
 9    to testify.  So I would ask you if there's any brief
10    opening statement you wish to make before I turn you
11    over to our counsel, Mr. Wright, who has some questions
12    for you.
13              MR. MCINTOSH:  I would waive opening
14    statement.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right, sir.
16              MR. WRIGHT:  Good afternoon, Mr. McIntosh.
17              MR. MCINTOSH:  Good afternoon.
18              MR. WRIGHT:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the
19    Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take
20    care of with this candidate.
21              Mr. McIntosh, you should have before you a
22    copy of your personal data questionnaire, which you
23    submitted as your application.  Is there amendment you
24    would like to make at this time or oral amendment to
25    your PDQ?
0205
 1              MR. MCINTOSH:  I would like to make a oral
 2    amendment as far as the Debutante membership.  I have
 3    resigned from that organization.
 4              MR. WRIGHT:  That's number 47C, I believe, of
 5    your PDQ. you resigned your position in the --
 6              MR. MCINTOSH:  My membership and position,
 7    yes, sir.
 8              MR. WRIGHT:  What is the effective date of
 9    that resignation?
10              MR. MCINTOSH:  That actually didn't take
11    place until this morning.  I had been chairman of the
12    club.  They were out of town last week, but I did it
13    this morning orally and in writing.
14              MR. WRIGHT:  Thank you.
15              At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to
16    ask that Mr. McIntosh's personal data questionnaire and
17    his amendment be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
18    record.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
20              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
21    will be entered into the record at this time.
22              (EXHIBIT 14, Personal Data Questionnaire of
23    Lawton McIntosh, admitted.)
24              MR. WRIGHT:  Mr. McIntosh, you had the sworn
25    statement you provided with detailed answers to over 30
0206
 1    questions regarding judicial conduct, statutory
 2    qualifications, office administration and temperament.
 3              Is there any amendment you would like to make
 4    at this time to your sworn statement?
 5              MR. MCINTOSH:  No, sir.
 6              MR. WRIGHT:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
 7    would like to ask that Mr. McIntosh's sworn statement
 8    be entered as an exhibit into the hearing record.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
10              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
11    entered into the record at this time.
12              (EXHIBIT 15, Sworn Statement of Lawton
13    McIntosh, admitted.)
14              MR. WRIGHT:  One final procedural matter.  I
15    note for the record that based on the testimony
16    contained in the candidate's PDQ, which has been
17    included in the record with the candidate's consent,
18    Mr. McIntosh meets the statutory requirements for this
19    position regarding age, residence and years of
20    practice.
21    BY MR. WRIGHT:
22         Q.   Mr. McIntosh, why do you now want to serve as
23    a Circuit Court judge?
24         A.   I grew up, my father was an attorney.  I grew
25    up in a household around attorneys.  The judiciary was
0207
 1    an esteemed position.  It's a position that you strive
 2    for as an attorney to try to get.  For me, to be a
 3    Circuit Court judge would be a great honor.  It would
 4    be a great responsibility.  And I think I could bring a
 5    positive influence to the office and to the position.
 6         Q.   Mr. McIntosh, could you please tell the
 7    members of the commission what you think is the
 8    appropriate demeanor for a judge.
 9         A.   I think that a judge should always be
10    even-handed, should show courtesy to not only to the
11    attorneys but to the staff and the general public and
12    to all people who come before the court.
13         Q.   Mr. McIntosh, when you leave the bench, what
14    would you like your legacy to be as a judge on the
15    Circuit Court?
16         A.   You know, I've read those.  I would think
17    that one of the things I would like would be somebody
18    that gave everybody an open chance to say what they
19    wanted to say and heard them.  I gave fair, unbiased
20    decisions.
21         Q.   What suggestion would you offer for improving
22    the backlog of cases on the docket in Circuit Court for
23    common pleas and general session?
24         A.   Well, from a practical standpoint, I think we
25    get to work on an early basis and working late as you
0208
 1    can.  You don't have to always be in court to be
 2    working.  I think that's important.  I try to keep the
 3    week going Monday through Friday as opposed to letting
 4    it break down.  But if it happens to do that, there's
 5    other things you can always do.
 6              From a more legal standpoint, in Anderson
 7    County, we have been very successful.  We were part of
 8    the mandatory alternative dispute resolution counties.
 9    I was checking with our clerk of court in anticipation
10    for here and our dockets on the civil side are holding
11    up pretty well.  On the criminal side, I think there's
12    some pretrial diversion programs, the drug courts seem
13    to be doing pretty good for those who qualify.
14              I think that updating and becoming more
15    computerized would be something that would be laudable.
16    I think that having effective pretrial meetings with
17    people, not necessarily on Monday morning but
18    potentially if you do it on the Friday before, so you
19    can get to court and start working and work the whole
20    day through without breaking down or spending so much
21    before you get to the business at hand.
22         Q.   Mr. McIntosh, you disclosed in your personal
23    data questionnaire that you were charged with driving
24    under the influence in 1991 and again in 1993.  Can you
25    briefly explain to the commission the nature and
0209
 1    disposition of these charges.
 2         A.   Yes, sir.  In 1991, I pled to a reckless
 3    driving.  In 1993, I went before a jury and was found
 4    not guilty.
 5         Q.   Mr. McIntosh, in your PDQ you listed three
 6    lawsuits in which you had been named as a party.  One
 7    was a 1997 suit between Melvin Julius Robinson versus
 8    the Perpetual Bank; another was a 1999 suit involving
 9    your health insurance company which you were named as a
10    plaintiff; and a third was a 2005 suit between National
11    City Mortgage Company versus Jerry Garton.
12              Can you briefly explain to the commission the
13    nature and disposition of these lawsuits?
14         A.   Certainly.  The first suit by Mr. Robinson, I
15    was named as a defendant.  I was the bank's attorney.
16    There wasn't anything culpable I had done.  And we
17    filed a motion and had other individual defendants
18    dismissed from that lawsuit.  Ultimately that case was
19    dismissed.  I think Mr. Robinson died during the
20    pendency.  But it stemmed around some use of a money
21    card at one of the teller machines.  And so I was named
22    as -- just because I was a lawyer for the bank.
23              The second suit was a case where I've had
24    four knee surgeries, went back to school, I was having
25    my knee surgery again, and my health insurance turned
0210
 1    down my claims, said I had a preexisting condition that
 2    was unreported.  I asked them for my application.  They
 3    didn't have it.  They refused to pay the claim.  So I
 4    brought that suit.
 5              Ultimately, during discovery, I had a copy of
 6    my application that I submitted and they realized
 7    somehow they transposed it, paid the claim.  The case
 8    was dismissed.
 9              Third case, the National City, I was just a
10    lawyer for a judgment holder, and so in the statute
11    they named me as an attorney for the bank.
12         Q.   Thank you, Mr. McIntosh.  I have a few
13    additional housekeeping issues.
14              Have you sought or received the pledge of any
15    legislator prior to this date?
16         A.   I have not.
17         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
18    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
19    the outcome of your screening?
20         A.   No, sir.
21         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
22    the members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
23         A.   No, sir.
24         Q.   Have you contacted any members of the
25    commission?
0211
 1         A.   I have inadvertently when I first decided I
 2    was going to run for this position, I wrote a letter to
 3    all of the legislators.  And so inadvertently that
 4    would have included some of the legislator members of
 5    the commission and that was my mistake.
 6         Q.   Do you understand you are prohibited from
 7    seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the
 8    formal release of the commission's report?
 9         A.   Yes, sir, I do.
10         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
11    on pledging?
12         A.   I have.
13         Q.   In follow up, are you aware of the penalties
14    for violating the pledging rules, that is, it's a
15    misdemeanor and upon conviction, a violator must be
16    fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than
17    90 days?
18         A.    I'm aware of that.
19              MR. WRIGHT:  I would note that the Upstate
20    Citizens Committee reported that based on the
21    evaluative criteria this committee is charged with
22    examining regarding each candidate, Mr. McIntosh meets
23    and exceeds the requirements in each area.
24              I would just note for the record that any
25    concerns raised during the investigation regarding
0212
 1    Mr. McIntosh were incorporated into the questioning of
 2    him today.
 3              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
 5              Any members of the commission have a
 6    question?
 7              Senator from Lexington.
 8              SEN. KNOTTS:  Just two quick ones.
 9              You say Mr. Lawton McIntosh --
10              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  You said you were charged in
12    Cayce, South Carolina, with DUI in '93?
13              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir.  Yes, sir.  That was
14    1991.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  '91?
16              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir.
17              SEN. KNOTTS:  And also up in Anderson or
18    somewhere?
19              MR. MCINTOSH:  In Greenville in '93, yes,
20    sir.
21              SEN. KNOTTS:  Did you take a breathalyzer in
22    either one of those?
23              MR. MCINTOSH:  The first one I did; the
24    second one I did not.
25              SEN. KNOTTS:  Second one, did you -- were you
0213
 1    penalized for not taking it?
 2              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir.
 3              SEN. KNOTTS:  Did you lose your license?
 4              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir, I did.
 5              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.
 7              Representative Mack.
 8              REP. MACK:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 9              Mr. McIntosh, I just wanted to follow up on
10    that question.  At that time, did you, in your
11    estimation, have a drinking problem?
12              MR. MCINTOSH:  No, sir, I didn't.  I tell you
13    what, I was young and I was not married and I let
14    myself get in positions probably that I shouldn't have.
15    Especially the case in charge.  The second charge,
16    quite frankly, the reason I did go to trial was because
17    I did not believe that the charge was appropriate for
18    me under the circumstances.  So I went to trial with
19    that.
20              REP. MACK:  But on the first charge, did you
21    take responsibility for it?
22              MR. MCINTOSH:  Sure.  Absolutely.  I learned
23    from my lesson.
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Any other
25    questions?
0214
 1              Just follow up on one.  I thought the Senator
 2    from Lexington would follow up on this one, so I'll
 3    follow up.
 4              You said that judges don't have to be at the
 5    courthouse to be working.  Could you follow up on that
 6    for me, what you meant by that.
 7              MR. MCINTOSH:  I'm sorry I wasn't clear.  I
 8    think you have to be at the courthouse to be working.
 9    I don't think you have to be in the courtroom.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  In the courtroom.
11              MR. MCINTOSH:  Yes, sir.  I'm sorry I wasn't
12    clear.  You have a lot of orders and things to take
13    care of outside the courtroom agenda.
14              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes, sir.
16              Any other questions?
17              All right.  Thank you, sir.
18              This completes this stage of the screening
19    process.  I want to thank you for your cooperation with
20    your staff on getting things done.  Secondly, remind
21    you of the 48-hour rule.  Right now the commission is
22    trying to hopefully have a report by August -- I mean
23    by April 23rd, which would allow the 48-hour period to
24    begin around April the 28th for commitment.  That may
25    be subject to change if we don't get our report ready
0215
 1    in time.
 2              With that, I want you to understand also we
 3    keep the files open until we vote and make a report
 4    also.  In the event should something come up, we would
 5    be back with you and we'd retain the right to continue
 6    to ask the questions.  That does not indicate there's
 7    anything outstanding.
 8              MR. MCINTOSH:  Sure.
 9              SEN. MCCONNELL:  With that, we thank you for
10    being with us this afternoon.  Have a good day, sir.
11              MR. MCINTOSH:  Thank you for letting me be
12    here.
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes, sir.
14              MR. MCINTOSH:  Thank you.
15              (Mr. McIntosh exits the room.)
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We move to the
17    Thirteenth Judicial Circuit.  We'll stand at ease until
18    the arrival of the candidate.
19              (Off the record.)
20              (Mr. Englebardt enters the room.)
21              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll back on the record at
22    this particular time.  We have before us Mr. Eric K.
23    Englebardt.  He is offering for the Thirteenth Judicial
24    Circuit, seat number 3.
25              If you would be so kind as to raise your
0216
 1    right hand.
 2              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
 3    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 4              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  I do.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, sir.
 6              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
 7    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
 8    bench.  Our inquiries focused on our nine evaluative
 9    criteria.  It has included a survey of the bench and
10    the bar, a thorough study of your application
11    materials, a verification of your compliance with state
12    ethics laws, a search of newspaper articles in which
13    your name appears, a study of any previous screenings,
14    if there were any, and a check for economic conflicts
15    of interest.
16              We've received no affidavits filed in
17    opposition to your election.  We have no witnesses
18    present to testify.  Therefore, I would ask if you have
19    any brief opening statement you wish to make before I
20    turn you over to Ms. Coombs who will have some
21    questions for you on behalf of the panel.
22              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Thank you,
23    Senator McConnell.  Only just to introduce my wife,
24    Judge Beth Burris, who is here with me today.  And I
25    thank to all for the courtesies extended to me and all
0217
 1    the candidates during the course of this process.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, and we're
 3    delighted to have her with us.
 4              With that, Ms. Coombs.
 5              MS. COOMBS:  Thank you.
 6              Mr. Chairman and members of the commission, I
 7    first have a few procedural matters to take up with the
 8    candidate.
 9              Mr. Englebardt, I think you have before you
10    your personal data questionnaire that you submitted as
11    part of your application.  Do you have any amendments
12    that you would like to make to the PDQ?
13              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  No, ma'am.
14              MS. COOMBS:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
15    would like to ask Mr. Englebardt's personal data
16    questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
17    record.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Is there any
19    objection?
20              If there's not, at this point the personal
21    data questionnaire will be entered into the record.
22              (EXHIBIT 16, Personal Data Questionnaire of
23    Eric K. Englebardt, admitted.)
24              MS. COOMBS:  Mr. Englebardt, you also have
25    before you the sworn statement that you provided with
0218
 1    your application with detailed answers to over 30
 2    questions regarding judicial conduct, statutory
 3    qualifications, office administration and temperament.
 4              Is there any amendment that you would like to
 5    make to that sworn statement?
 6              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  No, ma'am.
 7              MS. COOMBS:  Mr. Chairman, at this time I
 8    would ask that Mr. Englebardt's sworn statement be
 9    entered as an exhibit into the hearing record.
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
11              Hearing none, it will be done so at this
12    point in the record.
13              (EXHIBIT 15, Sworn Statement of Eric K.
14    Englebardt, admitted.)
15              MS. COOMBS:  One final procedural matter.  I
16    note for the record that based on the testimony
17    contained in the candidate's PDQ, which has been
18    included in the record with the candidate's consent,
19    Mr. Englebardt meets the statutory requirements for
20    this position regarding age, residence and years of
21    practice.
22    BY MS. COOMBS:
23         Q.   Mr. Englebardt, why do you now want to serve
24    as a Circuit Court judge?
25         A.   I thought long and hard about the answer to
0219
 1    this question and trying to remember what I said when I
 2    sat here I think about five years ago.  And five more
 3    years down the road, I guess I've changed that answer a
 4    slight bit.  My wife says that she knows that when I'm
 5    going to be in the court because my eyes tend to light
 6    up a little bit more that morning because I still find
 7    being in the courtroom the best part of my practice.
 8              I went to law school to be a trial lawyer and
 9    to be in the courtroom.  And more and more as you all
10    know these days, we spend less and less time in the
11    courtroom.
12              But also, I have found that I like solving
13    problems.  I like solving problems for my clients, but
14    I also like solving problems for other people.  I spend
15    a great deal of my time these days serving as a
16    mediator or as an arbitrator in alternative dispute
17    resolution, and I believe I can further that enjoyment
18    of solving those problems by being on the Circuit Court
19    bench, if I'm honored enough to be elected.
20              I do think that I've always felt that public
21    service was something that was in my future.  People
22    ask me why do you want this job when truth be told it's
23    a pay cut?  And I say, you know, the ability to serve
24    the people in a way that also furthers my profession is
25    a rare opportunity, and it's one that I hope I get the
0220
 1    opportunity to take.
 2         Q.   Mr. Englebardt, you've already addressed this
 3    in your sworn affidavit, but would you please tell the
 4    members of the commission what you think is the
 5    appropriate demeanor for a judge.
 6         A.   One of the -- I tried a case a few weeks ago
 7    that was very -- the parties were -- there was a lot of
 8    anger and there was a lot of accusations flying back
 9    and forth, and not just between the parties but between
10    the lawyers involved.  And I remember my wife said to
11    me before I went to the courtroom that day, she said,
12    "Remember to be the most reasonable person in the
13    room."
14              And I think that that is one of those -- I
15    don't know a better way to answer that because the
16    judge needs to be the most reasonable person in the
17    room at all times.  I don't -- I don't have any qualms
18    about my demeanor in terms of how I would translate it
19    to the bench.  I think the judge needs to keep order
20    and needs to be stern when sternness is appropriate.
21    It also needs to include a sense of humor when a sense
22    of humor is appropriate.  The seriousness of what goes
23    on in the courtroom can also be tempered by the human
24    element that's necessary.  That's what a judge needs to
25    be.  A judge needs to have a demeanor that shows that
0221
 1    he remembers what it's like to be a lawyer and that a
 2    judge is a lawyer running the courtroom, but that's all
 3    he is.
 4         Q.   If elected, when you leave the bench, what
 5    would your like your legacy to be as a judge on the
 6    Circuit Court?
 7         A.   I think the best way to answer that is -- and
 8    those of you who know me know that I'm sort of a sports
 9    addict.  I would hope that as a judge I wouldn't -- I
10    don't want people to -- let me put it this way.  When
11    you watch a basketball game, you want the referees to
12    be there but not be the ones whose names you remember.
13    You want them to run the show but not put themselves
14    ahead of the parties or put themselves ahead of the
15    process.  And I hope that's the kind of judge I would
16    be.  I want people to say if they -- if I'm lucky
17    enough to make it to the bench, that they got a fair
18    shake from me, that I ran a calm courtroom where
19    justice could be above all else, but that I did not
20    intrude upon the process.
21         Q.   What suggestions would you offer for
22    improving the backlog of cases on the docket in Circuit
23    Court in civil or in criminal matters?
24         A.   You mean absent finding billions of dollars
25    to have more judges and more court time?  I think that
0222
 1    there are a lot of ways to do it.  I think last time I
 2    was asked that question, I talked about technology and
 3    use of technology in the courtroom and obviously that
 4    can still happen with more to free up time by use of
 5    video teleconferencing, things like that.
 6              I also think that -- and maybe this is the
 7    mediator in me coming out, is I think there's an
 8    element of the use of mediation that can push things,
 9    particularly on the criminal side, and in terms of
10    having neutrals work with the defendants and
11    Solicitor's Office and the defense counsel on plea
12    deals where perhaps having a neutral sit down with the
13    parties to talk about what might or might not happen in
14    the courtroom and see whether there's a way to work
15    deals out that would stop some of those cases from
16    going to trial.
17         Q.   According to your personal data
18    questionnaire, your experience in criminal matters has
19    been limited.  I believe it's 2 percent over the last
20    five years.  What have you done and what would you do
21    to make up for your lack of experience in handling
22    criminal matters?
23         A.   I think that's a very fair question.  And I
24    think that it doesn't -- sort of I don't think that it
25    is any kind of disqualification.  I do think, though,
0223
 1    that I have spent a great deal of time when I get the
 2    advance sheets focusing on the criminal side of things
 3    because that's not what I see all the time.
 4              I've gone and spent time in the courtroom
 5    watching plea days and watching a couple of criminal
 6    trials.  But what I've also done is I've started
 7    volunteering for youth court, which is a criminal court
 8    that's held in Mauldin, South Carolina.  In fact, I'm
 9    going to court there tomorrow, as a judge, in
10    misdemeanor criminal cases with students.  And they try
11    the case.  The students try the case as if it was a
12    regular trial.  The juries are their peers and they
13    have to choose among a potential set of sentences.
14              But that's been a good exposure for me to the
15    processes.  The rules of criminal procedure,
16    thankfully, are not the more complicated half of the
17    rules, and so studying during the course of this I've
18    come to realize that it's not an obstacle that I think
19    I can't overcome.  I'm usually a pretty quick study.
20         Q.   Thank you.
21              Mr. Englebardt, have you sought or received
22    the pledge of any legislator prior to this date?
23         A.   No, ma'am.
24         Q.   Okay.  Have you sought or have you been
25    offered a conditional pledge of support of any
0224
 1    legislator pending the outcome of your screening?
 2         A.   No, ma'am.
 3         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
 4    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
 5         A.   No, ma'am.
 6         Q.   And have you contacted any members of this
 7    commission?
 8         A.   Only in passing being here to campaign and
 9    cocktail parties, no direct contact.
10         Q.   And do you understand that you're prohibited
11    from seeking a pledge or a commitment until 48 hours
12    after the formal release of the commission's report?
13         A.   Yes, ma'am.
14         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
15    on pledging?
16         A.   I have.
17         Q.   And are you aware that violating the pledging
18    rules is a misdemeanor and upon conviction, a violator
19    must be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not
20    more than 90 days?
21         A.   Yes, ma'am.
22              MS. COOMBS:  I would note that the Upstate --
23    Mr. Chairman, I would note that the Upstate Citizens
24    Committee reported that based upon the evaluative
25    criteria that the committee is charged with examining
0225
 1    regarding each candidate, Mr. Englebardt meets and
 2    exceeds the requirements in each area.  And I would
 3    also note for the record that any concerns raised
 4    during the investigation regarding Mr. Englebardt were
 5    incorporated into the questioning of the candidate
 6    today.
 7              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Let me see if
 9    any members of the commission have any questions.
10              All right then.  Oh, Senator from Lexington.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  What would be your work ethic
12    on the bench?  When you would you go to work and how
13    many days a week would you work?
14              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  One of the questions asked
15    earlier was about the backlog, and so I certainly
16    understand that being a judge doesn't mean that you
17    have days off every week.  My expectation,
18    Senator Knotts, is that I would be there in ample time
19    to prepare before court, whether that means -- I'm
20    usually at the office by 8:15 every morning.  I don't
21    see why that would change once I went on the bench.
22    Especially during school, I drive carpool and go
23    straight to the office.  That wouldn't change.
24              But I think the judge needs to -- any judge
25    needs to have time to go through the docket and
0226
 1    especially if you're nonjury and have a chance to be
 2    prepared for whatever motions.  So my expectation is I
 3    would work regular workdays, and I would be prepared
 4    early before court every morning.
 5              SEN. KNOTTS:  Do you insist on working a
 6    five-day week?
 7              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  As long as there's work to
 8    be done, I would expect I would do it.  Yes sir.
 9              SEN. KNOTTS:  As long as there's a backlog,
10    there's work to be done, right?
11              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  That's absolutely correct.
12              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you.
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
14              SEN. FORD:  Just one quick.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Charleston.
16              SEN. FORD:  Mr. Englebardt, you know that
17    most of the crimes are done by repeaters throughout the
18    state?
19              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Yes, sir.
20              SEN. FORD:  And you're going to help us with
21    that?
22              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  That would be my intent,
23    sir.  I would follow the law the best I can.  I think I
24    answered that question in my sworn statement, that that
25    is certainly a concern.
0227
 1              SEN. FORD:  What type of law do you practice
 2    now?
 3              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Now, I think if you asked me
 4    five years ago, I would have said I was a litigator who
 5    does some mediation; now I would say I'm a mediator who
 6    still does some litigation.  But most of my practice in
 7    my career has been on the civil defense side of things,
 8    though I've handled all sorts of cases on both sides.
 9              SEN. FORD:  Is this stuff going to be boring
10    to you?
11              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  I don't think so, Senator.
12    I love being in the courtroom.
13              SEN. FORD:  I mean the types of cases you'll
14    be handling.
15              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  One of the great parts about
16    being a circuit judge is you get to hear all sorts of
17    different kind of cases.
18              SEN. FORD:  You're going to help us clean the
19    streets?
20              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Meaning in terms of sitting
21    in general sessions court, sir?
22              SEN. FORD:  Sitting and also working.
23              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Yes, sir.  Working to clear
24    the docket, absolutely.
25              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  Any further
0228
 1    questions?
 2              If not, this concludes this stage of the
 3    screening process.
 4              A couple of things.  First of all, we want to
 5    thank you for your cooperation with our staff, getting
 6    the paperwork done; secondly, remind of the 48-hour
 7    waiting period.  Right now we are shooting for a date
 8    of having a report out by April the 23rd, which would
 9    probably result in a formal process of being able to
10    get commitments around noon of April the 28th.  Should
11    that change, you might want to check back with the
12    staff.  It looks like that right now is at least our
13    target.
14              Lastly, I would remind you that we reserve
15    the right to reopen these hearings up until we issue a
16    formal report should any matter come up.  That's not to
17    indicate there's anything pending, but it's just one of
18    the practices of this commission.  With that, we thank
19    you for your cooperation and you all have a nice day.
20              MR. ENGLEBARDT:  Thank you, Senator.
21              (Mr. Englebardt exits the room.)
22              (Off the record.)
23              (Mr. Fretwell enters the room.)
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We'll go back on
25    the record at this point.  And we have before us
0229
 1    Mr. Allen O. Fretwell.  He is offering for the
 2    Thirteenth Judicial Circuit, seat number 3.
 3              And if you'd be so kind as to raise your
 4    right hand.
 5              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
 6    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 7              MR. FRETWELL:  I do.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.  Do you have
 9    anybody here you want to introduce?
10              MR. FRETWELL:  Yes, Mr. Chairman.  I would
11    like to introduce my wife April.  April is a high
12    school art teacher in Greenville.  She's my best
13    friend.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  We're delighted
15    to have you here with us.
16              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
17    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
18    bench.  Our inquiry has focused on our nine evaluative
19    criteria that's included a survey of the bench and the
20    bar, a thorough study of your application materials, a
21    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
22    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
23    appears, a study to see if there were any previous
24    screenings and a check for economic conflicts of
25    interest.
0230
 1              We have received no affidavits filed in
 2    opposition to your election.  We have no witnesses
 3    present to testify.
 4              I would ask you if you have any brief opening
 5    statements you would like to make at this time before I
 6    turn you over to staff.  Counsel, Ms. Goldsmith, will
 7    have a few questions for you.
 8              MR. FRETWELL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I
 9    just want to thank the members of the commission for
10    the opportunity to be here and to participate in this
11    process.  In participating in this process, you learn a
12    lot about yourself.  And I think if nothing else, I
13    have become a better person for participating.  So I
14    appreciate the opportunity.
15              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
16              Mr. Chairman and Members of the Commission, I
17    have just a few procedural matters to take care of
18    first.
19              Mr. Fretwell, you have before you your
20    personal data questionnaire as submitted as part of
21    your application.  Is there any amendment that you
22    would like to make at this time to that document?
23              MR. FRETWELL:  Yes, ma'am.  I have an update
24    with respect to the expenses that I've had.
25              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Okay.  At this time,
0231
 1    Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that Mr. Fretwell's
 2    personal data questionnaire and his amendments be
 3    entered into -- or, I'm sorry, be entered as an exhibit
 4    into the hearing record.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 6              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
 7    and the amendment will be entered into the record at
 8    this time.
 9              (EXHIBIT 18, Personal Data Questionnaire of
10    Allen O. Fretwell, admitted.)
11              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Mr. Fretwell, you also have
12    before you your sworn statement in which you provided
13    detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding
14    judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office
15    administration and temperament.
16              Is there any amendment you would like to make
17    to that document at this time?
18              MR. FRETWELL:  Yes, ma'am.  Just the same
19    amendment with respect to the amount of campaign funds
20    that I expended.
21              MS. GOLDSMITH:  Thank you.
22              At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would like to
23    ask that Mr. Fretwell's sworn statement and his
24    amendments be entered as an exhibit into the hearing
25    record.
0232
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 2              Hearing none, the sworn statement and the
 3    amendment will be entered into the record at this time.
 4              (EXHIBIT 19, Sworn Statement of Allen O.
 5    Fretwell, admitted.)
 6              MS. GOLDSMITH:  I also note for the record
 7    that based on the testimony contained in Mr. Fretwell's
 8    personal data questionnaire, which has been included in
 9    the record, Mr. Fretwell meets the statutory
10    requirements for this position regarding age, residence
11    and years of practice.
12    BY MS. GOLDSMITH:
13         Q.   Mr. Fretwell, why do you want to serve as a
14    Circuit Court judge?
15         A.   I believe the short answer to your question
16    is that judges have had a significant impact on my life
17    during important turning points in my life.  And my
18    desire is to have that same impact on other people.
19              When I was young, a family court judge
20    allowed me to be adopted by my grandparents after my
21    mother passed away.  I don't really know where I would
22    be today if that had not happened.  I became interested
23    in the law in high school through speech and debate,
24    but it was after my interview of a federal district
25    judge for a college class that I made a decision to go
0233
 1    to law school.
 2              I had a scholarship competition dinner at the
 3    law school.  I was seated next to an appellate judge
 4    who at the end of that evening I had decided that I
 5    wanted to attend the University of South Carolina
 6    School of Law.  And I certainly don't regret that
 7    decision.
 8              While in law school, I had the opportunity to
 9    work for Judge Joe Anderson as an intern.  And working
10    with a federal judge and seeing that judge be
11    consistent both in the courtroom and in his chambers as
12    well as out to lunch with his interaction with members
13    of the bar.  He told me a lot about the life of a
14    circuit judge, kind of confirmed for me that was the
15    path I wanted to take.
16              And in fact I took my present job as an
17    assistant solicitor in large part on the advice of that
18    same initial federal judge, Judge Traxler, who told me
19    that his time as the prosecutor had been some of the
20    most rewarding of his life.
21              And finally, I'll tell you that I had the
22    opportunity as a trial lawyer to appear before judicial
23    role models such as Judge John Kittredge whose life
24    exemplifies for me what I would want to be as a circuit
25    judge.  In fact, my wife and I grew to respect and
0234
 1    admire Judge Kittredge so much that we asked him to
 2    officiate at our wedding.
 3              If I had the opportunity to have an impact on
 4    somebody else's life like that, I would consider myself
 5    greatly blessed.
 6         Q.   Thank you.
 7              Although you address this in your sworn
 8    statement, could you please tell the members of the
 9    commission what you think is the appropriate demeanor
10    for a judge?
11         A.   Yes, ma'am.  I think certainly a judge ought
12    to be respectful and respectful of all those with whom
13    he or she comes in contact.  A judge should never seek
14    to embarrass anyone that appears before him or her.  He
15    should always seek to be considerate of the time and
16    pay careful attention to the matter that's before him.
17              And that's another aspect of the demeanor
18    that I think would be appropriate, an attentiveness to
19    the proceedings.  Not having to be asked, kind of woken
20    up with an objection as to what's going on, but to
21    carefully watch the proceeding and be aware and be able
22    to make those timely objections to move the system
23    along and be considerate of the time of the jurors who
24    are waiting to participate in the process.
25              I also think that a judge ought to be
0235
 1    predictable.  That judge ought to be the same every
 2    single time you come in the courtroom.  You ought to be
 3    able to rely on that judge to apply the law as the law
 4    is written.  And you ought to be able to make decisions
 5    on what cases to take to trial based on what you know
 6    that judge will do, which is in accordance with the
 7    law.
 8              And finally, I think an important element of
 9    a judge's demeanor is to treat everyone like that judge
10    would want to be treated.  I have been in front of a
11    judge for the first time as a rookie lawyer, very
12    nervous in front of a jury, et cetera, and had a judge
13    who was patient with me, who was considerate of my
14    inexperience and that was very helpful to me.  And
15    those are some things that I think are appropriate for
16    the demeanor of a circuit judge.
17         Q.   When you leave the bench, what would you like
18    your legacy to be as a judge on the Circuit Court?
19         A.   I believe most importantly I would want
20    people to think with respect to me that I fulfilled my
21    oath.  That I was a judge who upheld the integrity and
22    the independence of the judiciary, and that I was a
23    judge who treated everyone with civility, fairness and
24    respect.
25         Q.   What suggestions would you offer for
0236
 1    improving the backlog of cases on the docket in the
 2    Circuit Court in civil or criminal matters?
 3         A.   My experience has been primarily criminal.
 4    And I can tell you that through my experience, cases
 5    become old for generally one of three reasons:  Number
 6    one, missing witnesses or evidence; number two,
 7    unreasonable plea offers; and number three, the failure
 8    of the prosecutor to do what I consider pulling the
 9    trigger.  And that means if you have a case where you
10    have the evidence and it's appropriate, put it on the
11    trial docket and get it tried.  If you don't have the
12    evidence or there's something wrong with it, there's a
13    time at which you have to make a decision to move on
14    and leave that case behind.  But those are some reasons
15    why we have backlogs in the criminal justice system, I
16    believe, based on my experience.
17              And I think it's important as anyone who
18    administers a docket, whether it be a solicitor in the
19    criminal field or a judge in the civil field, that you
20    not be afraid to consider new ways of looking at cases
21    positioned with a mind for a fair and efficient
22    movement of those cases.  I constantly reevaluate how I
23    process cases.
24              I make -- I take advantage -- I try to take
25    advantage, although I will point out to the commission
0237
 1    I think this is another area where the criminal docket
 2    could be further decreased by prosecutors who would
 3    take full advantage of the diversionary programs the
 4    legislature has set up.  I think the pretrial
 5    intervention program for first time offenders.  I think
 6    of the -- as an arson prosecutor, I'm especially
 7    familiar with mental health court, which seeks to give
 8    participants the tools that they need to deal with the
 9    disease and the affliction that they have and not
10    necessarily merely to treat the symptoms of that
11    disease.
12              And also the drug court program, the 18-month
13    intensive program that also seeks to address the real
14    problem of the drug addiction and not just the penal
15    aspect of that with respect to incarceration.  I think
16    that's something -- again, I'm not in a position to
17    tell the legislature what it should do, but I think
18    there are plenty of tools there that prosecutors can
19    take advantage of to further reduce the backlog.
20              I think the court administration has begun to
21    implement an electronic case administration system that
22    we use in Greenville, and it has made prosecutors and
23    defense attorneys deal with these decisions in a more
24    timely manner.  And I think we have yet to see what
25    that will produce across the state, but I think it's
0238
 1    going to be a positive result for the reduction of the
 2    backlog in criminal cases.  Much like I guess the
 3    mandatory mediation has done in civil cases.
 4         Q.   Thank you.
 5         A.   Yes, ma'am.
 6         Q.   Mr. Fretwell, in your PDQ you noted that you
 7    had been sued by a former criminal defendant in federal
 8    court in 2008.  Would you please describe the nature
 9    and current status of that suit?
10         A.   Yes, ma'am.  The answer that I gave in my
11    data questionnaire, I do not believe that suit is still
12    active.  My understanding at the time was that the
13    individual, who I did not know personally, I may have
14    remembered the name, but I believe it was a suit in
15    Section 1983 of the U.S. Code for violation of civil
16    rights.  It's not an uncommon suit, it's the only one
17    that I have experienced in a decade that I've been a
18    prosecutor.
19              But my understanding is that this was a suit
20    that was filed pro se or on the -- or the plaintiff's
21    own behalf and that the original pleadings were not in
22    conformance with what was required in the federal court
23    and that it didn't get any further than the initial
24    stage of the U.S. magistrate.  But it's my belief that
25    I am not a defendant in that action any longer.  If I
0239
 1    were to be, it is my understanding that my
 2    prosecutorial immunity would make me exempt from suit
 3    under that particular scenario.
 4         Q.   Okay.  According to your PDQ, your experience
 5    in the last five years has consisted of a hundred
 6    percent criminal matters.
 7         A.   Yes, ma'am.
 8         Q.   What have you done and what would you do to
 9    make up for your lack of experience in handling civil
10    matters?
11         A.   Well, in 2000, I became involved in a program
12    sponsored by the South Carolina Bar, the high school
13    mock trial program.  And I began working with the team,
14    and this program involves from the prospective of an
15    attorney coach, teaching student attorneys about the
16    rules of evidence and the rules of procedure as well as
17    explaining legal terms in a way that a student attorney
18    can then direct witnesses, cross-examine witnesses,
19    make opening and closing statements.  And that program
20    alternates each year with the criminal cases and civil
21    cases.
22              So every other year since 2000, I have been
23    responsible for teaching high school students the
24    concepts of civil law.  And I think that that has given
25    me some basis of connection with civil concepts.  I
0240
 1    have had to do some research along the way.  I
 2    certainly understand that reading the advance sheets is
 3    not enough to make me qualified, but I intend -- I can
 4    tell the commission that I was -- I love learning.  I
 5    enjoy learning new things.  I've enjoyed the kinds of
 6    cases I've been able to prosecute as a prosecutor.  I'm
 7    not afraid of a challenge.
 8              I may be a lawyer, but my wife and I, when we
 9    got our first house, discovered that we were going to
10    have to do a little bit more work than we anticipated.
11    That's not uncommon for most people buying the their
12    first house, I understand.  Well, we ended up having to
13    rewire and replumb the entire house.  I've done a
14    little bit of electrical work in my life, but I've
15    never done any kind of plumbing.  So what I did was I
16    went out and found somebody that knew how to do it and
17    I had them show me how to do it, and I did it.
18              And if any of you have ever sweat copper
19    pipe, you know that you're liable to burn things, that
20    you're liable to drip solder everywhere, and you're
21    certainly liable to have leaks.  I can proudly tell you
22    there wasn't one leak.
23              So I'm not afraid of a challenge.  I don't
24    mind looking at a situation and trying to take it
25    apart.  I do that as part of my responsibilities now in
0241
 1    the Solicitor's Office as to cold case liaison.
 2              In 2006, I prosecuted a case, a double
 3    homicide where a man killed his best friend that had
 4    been cold for four years.  And when that case came into
 5    the office, many of my colleagues thought that it
 6    wasn't a prosecutable case simply because the evidence
 7    was so old, the witnesses were scattered from here to
 8    there.
 9              But I worked on that case for months, and I
10    recall taking it home and dissecting it, looking at the
11    phone records and the other evidence and talking with
12    the investigator and the witnesses.  My average
13    pretrial conference for a witness in that case, in
14    which I had over 30, was three and a half hours.
15              But at the conclusion of that matter, we
16    tried the case, we tried it in one week, and the
17    defendant was convicted.  I just -- the only reason I
18    tell you that is because I'm not afraid of a challenge.
19    I do look at something from all different kinds of
20    angles.  That is sometimes a source of annoyance for my
21    wife when she's ready to make a decision, but I think
22    sometimes it's better to measure twice and cut once.
23              That's a little bit of an insight into what
24    I've tried to do over the past few years to stay
25    current.  I can tell you that I look forward to -- just
0242
 1    like when I came into the Solicitor's Office with no
 2    experience as a criminal lawyer, to looking to mentors
 3    in the judiciary that I can pattern my philosophy after
 4    and just take every opportunity to become familiar with
 5    those areas that I need to in order to properly do my
 6    job.
 7         Q.   Thank you.
 8         A.   Yes, ma'am.
 9         Q.   Just a few more questions for you.
10              Have you sought or received the pledge of any
11    legislator prior to today?
12         A.   No, ma'am.
13         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
14    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
15    the outcome of your screening?
16         A.   No, ma'am.
17         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
18    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
19         A.   Not with respect to this seat.  I've run for
20    a previous seats and at the appropriate time I did ask
21    that, but I have not with respect to this seat that I'm
22    running for.
23         Q.   Have you contacted any members of the
24    commission?
25         A.   I have not made any affirmative attempts.
0243
 1    I've certainly been at receptions where I've shaken the
 2    hands of legislators that I discovered as I'm shaking
 3    their hand that they were a member of this commission,
 4    but certainly did not intentionally seek out any member
 5    of this commission to contact him or her.
 6         Q.   Do you understand that you are prohibited
 7    from seeking a pledge or a commitment until 48 hours
 8    after the formal release of the commission's report?
 9         A.   Yes, ma'am.
10         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
11    on pledging?
12         A.   I'm very familiar with it, yes, ma'am.
13         Q.   Are you aware that violating the pledging
14    rules is a misdemeanor and upon conviction, a violator
15    must be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not
16    more than 90 days?
17         A.   Yes, ma'am.
18              MS. GOLDSMITH:  I would note that the Upstate
19    Citizens Committee reported that it found no additional
20    information that would alter its previous findings
21    concerning Mr. Fretwell.  And as a note for the
22    commission, the Upstate Citizens Committee previously
23    reported that Mr. Fretwell's qualifications met and
24    exceeded the expectations set fort in the evaluative
25    criteria.  I would note for the record that any
0244
 1    concerns raised during the investigation regarding
 2    Mr. Fretwell were incorporated into the questioning of
 3    him today.
 4              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
 6              Does any member of the commission?
 7              Senator from Charleston.
 8              SEN. FORD:  A full week would be what as far
 9    as you're concerned, Judge?
10              MR. FRETWELL:  A full week?
11              SEN. FORD:  A full workweek.
12              MR. FRETWELL:  Starting Monday morning at
13    8:00 and ending Friday at 5:00 or 6:00 or depends on
14    whether I'm still in trial.
15              SEN. FORD:  You're going to definitely work
16    on Thursdays and Fridays?  No sense in telling me about
17    that if you're not going to do it.
18              MR. FRETWELL:  Sir, I believe a judge's first
19    responsibility is being a judge.  And I think a judge
20    is a public servant, and I think the public deserves
21    someone who will give an honest day's work for an
22    honest day's wage.
23              SEN. FORD:  Tell me about that civil rights
24    action against you.  What was that about?
25              MR. FRETWELL:  Senator, I'm not familiar with
0245
 1    particularity, but I've never been served with any kind
 2    of complaint with respect to what I may have done in
 3    the performance of my duty to violate an individual's
 4    civil rights.
 5              I do know that I was sued along with the
 6    sentencing judge, the court reporter, the magistrate
 7    who authorized the original warrant, the defense
 8    attorney, and probably anybody else's name that
 9    appeared on the sentencing sheet.  But as to the
10    specifics of the allegation, Senator, I don't believe
11    that -- I actually believe that's one of the reasons
12    that the suit didn't go any further is because the
13    plaintiff failed to articulate what the specific
14    concerns were.
15              SEN. FORD:  He couldn't get a lawyer?
16              MR. FRETWELL:  He wouldn't be entitled to a
17    lawyer for that kind of suit.
18              SEN. FORD:  But what kind was it?
19              MR. FRETWELL:  It was a civil suit for
20    violation --
21              SEN. FORD:  It wasn't a civil rights suit, it
22    was a civil suit?
23              MR. FRETWELL:  It was a civil suit that
24    involved violation of his civil rights, yes, sir.
25              SEN. FORD:  But you don't know what those
0246
 1    civil rights were?
 2              MR. FRETWELL:  No, sir, I don't know which
 3    specific rights he was -- I assume that the possession
 4    of his body by the state was of concern to him.
 5              SEN. FORD:  Was what?
 6              MR. FRETWELL:  Was of concern to him.
 7              SEN. FORD:  His body by the state?
 8              MR. FRETWELL:  Yes, sir.  His liberty
 9    interests were probably what he was concerned about,
10    yes, sir.  But I can assure you at that plea, just like
11    every plea I've been a part of, the judge went over it
12    in copious detail the rights of that defendant with
13    respect to making a determination that his plea was
14    knowing, intelligent and voluntarily made.  I know that
15    that has been a part of every plea that I've been a
16    part of since I've been at the Solicitor's Office.
17              SEN. FORD:  And you say it's still pending?
18              MR. FRETWELL:  I don't believe it's pending,
19    no, sir.  Quite some time ago, the plaintiff was given
20    the opportunity to confirm his pleadings or the papers
21    that he filed to the requirements of the federal rules,
22    and it's not my belief that he has done that, sir.  He
23    was given ten days to do that several months ago.
24              SEN. FORD:  But this is not going to come
25    back and --
0247
 1              MR. FRETWELL:  Well, the only one I believe
 2    that would be affecting potentially would be me, sir,
 3    and, number one, I don't believe it's still pending.
 4    And number two, I believe that the operation of my
 5    discretion as far as my prosecutorial responsibilities
 6    would entitled me to absolute immunity from such suit.
 7              SEN. FORD:  Okay.  But most of the time all
 8    the candidates, they clear that stuff up and when they
 9    come before the committee, they can tell us exactly
10    what happened and when and how it was gotten rid of.
11    But you're not sure.
12              MR. FRETWELL:  In order to access those kind
13    of records, it's my belief that you have to have some
14    sort of involvement in the federal bar.  I don't -- I
15    don't practice in the federal bar, but I certainly,
16    with your suggestion, will seek out some sort of
17    official documentation to indicate that that's the
18    case.  And, Senator, I apologize for not having that
19    here with me here today.
20              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator, let me intervene
21    here and suggest to you both of you in earlier
22    testimony and according to staff, unfortunately because
23    of your situation this morning you couldn't benefit
24    from, some of the suits that he is talking about are
25    suits that the federal magistrate has never gone
0248
 1    forward with papers being served, and as a result, he
 2    has no way of knowing.  The papers were not served on
 3    him.  The particulars of it, the case was not ripened
 4    and it did not go forward.  And probably for all
 5    intents and purposes it's been dismissed.  And that's
 6    why it wasn't a lack of his preparation or anything, it
 7    is the nature of the system.
 8              Is that fair from the other members of the
 9    commission of our understanding?  We looked at that
10    this morning and so it would be no negative reflection
11    on him.  He would have no way really of knowing more
12    than he already knows.
13              MR. FRETWELL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Does that help you?  Thank
15    you, sir.
16              Any other members of the commission?
17              All right.  Then that will wrap up this stage
18    of the screening process.  First of all, I want to
19    thank you for your cooperation with our staff.  Very
20    much appreciate that.  Secondly, to remind you again of
21    the 48-hour rule.  Right now we are tentatively on
22    course to try to get this report out around April 23rd,
23    which would result in commitments after noon on
24    April 28th.  That, of course, can be subject to change
25    if we hit a snag along the way.
0249
 1              Lastly, I would tell you that we keep the
 2    files open up until we publish the report.  Should a
 3    matter come up, we reserve the right to call you back.
 4    It does not indicate there's any pending matters, it's
 5    just a practice of this commission.
 6              With that, we thank you for your time, wish
 7    you well and have a good day, sir.
 8              MR. FRETWELL:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
 9    members of the commission.
10              (Mr. Fretwell exits the room.)
11              (Off the record.)
12              (Ms. Hodge enters the room.)
13              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll go back on the record
14    at this particular time.  We have with us Ms. Kristie
15    Hodge, and she is offering for Circuit Court,
16    Thirteenth Circuit, seat number 3.  Good afternoon.
17              MS. HODGE:  Good afternoon.
18              SEN. MCCONNELL:  If you would be kind enough
19    to raise your right hand.
20              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
21    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
22              MS. HODGE:  I do.
23              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
24              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
25    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
0250
 1    bench.  Our inquiry has focused on our nine evaluative
 2    criteria.  It's included a survey of the bench and the
 3    bar, a thorough study of your application materials,
 4    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
 5    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
 6    appears, a study of any previous screenings, if any,
 7    and a check for economic conflicts of interest.
 8              We received no affidavits filed in opposition
 9    to your election.  No witnesses are present to testify.
10              I would ask you if you have any brief opening
11    statements you wish to give before I turn you over to
12    Mr. Dennis, our staff counsel, who will have some
13    questions for you.
14              MS. HODGE:  No, just thank you for the
15    opportunity to be here.
16              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Dennis.
17              MR. DENNIS:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the
18    Commission, I have got a couple of procedural matters I
19    need to go over with this candidate.
20              Ms. Hodge, you have before you, I think, a
21    copy of your personal data questionnaire and some
22    amendments that you need to make to it.  Would you
23    please offer those amendments, explain to the
24    commission what those amendments are for the record.
25              MS. HODGE:  Yes.  I have amended my PDQ.  It
0251
 1    was in reference to where my references were listed.  I
 2    took one reference out, was Judge Miller, and was
 3    replaced with Stephanie Pendarvis McDonald.  And she
 4    submitted her letter of resignation, I believe it was
 5    before the deadline for submitting those.  Thank you.
 6              And then additionally, I have incurred about
 7    $25 more in my campaign expenditures, which I sent
 8    letters to the chairman of the senate and the house
 9    ethics commission last week.
10              MR. DENNIS:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
11    would ask that Ms. Hodges' personal data questionnaire
12    and the amendments be entered as an exhibit into the
13    record.
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
15              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
16    and the amendment is hereby entered into the record at
17    this time.
18              (EXHIBIT 20, Personal Data Questionnaire of
19    Kristie B. Hodge, admitted.)
20              MR. DENNIS:  Ms. Hodge, you also have before
21    you a sworn statement which you provided detailed
22    answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial
23    conduct, statutory qualifications, office
24    administration and temperament.
25              Is there any amendment that you would like to
0252
 1    make to that sworn statement at this time?
 2              MS. HODGE:  No.
 3              MR. DENNIS:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
 4    would ask that Ms. Hodges' sworn statement be entered
 5    into the record as an exhibit.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 7              Hearing none, the sworn statement will be
 8    enter into the record at this time.
 9              (EXHIBIT 21, Sworn Statement of Kristie B.
10    Hodge, admitted.)
11              MR. DENNIS:  One final matter.  I note for
12    the record that based on the testimony contained in the
13    candidate's PDQ, which has been included in the record
14    with the candidate's consent, Ms. Hodge meets the
15    statutory requirements for this position regarding age,
16    residence and years of practice.
17    BY MR. DENNIS:
18         Q.   Ms. Hodge, I have a couple of questions for
19    you.  After practicing law since 1994, why do you now
20    want to serve as a Circuit Court judge?
21         A.   I would like to continue my public service.
22    I have chosen to seek the assistant solicitor position
23    because I felt that that is where I could best serve my
24    community as well as hone my legal skills.  I enjoy
25    thoroughly my job.  I do feel like I'm making a
0253
 1    difference at the end of the day.  I enjoy being in the
 2    courtroom and trying cases.  And I feel like being a
 3    Circuit Court or a trial judge is the next logical step
 4    for me.
 5         Q.   Ms. Hodge, you address this in your sworn
 6    statement which is now part of the record, but would
 7    you please explain to the commission what you think the
 8    appropriate demeanor for a judge would be.
 9         A.   Obviously a judge needs to be competent in
10    the law.  That's the first and foremost.  But you also
11    need to have proper temperament.  You're dealing with
12    not only court personnel, jurors, the litigants, the
13    attorneys, you need to be able to be courteous yet
14    still remain dignified and in charge, respectful to all
15    the parties.  And you need to be able to help mediate
16    certain things as necessary.  So you've got to be
17    approachable.  You've also got to be available.  You
18    need to be hard working and be present on the bench.
19         Q.   Ms. Hodge, if you were elected and became a
20    Circuit Court judge, when you left the bench, what
21    would you like for your legacy to have been?
22         A.   I would like to be known as I do now -- in my
23    job now, I would like to be known as hard working,
24    competent, thorough, prepared, courteous, and certainly
25    I would like to feel that I've made some difference in
0254
 1    my community for the people in Greenville.
 2         Q.   What suggestions would you offer for
 3    improving the backlog of cases on the docket in Circuit
 4    Court for common pleas or general sessions or both?
 5         A.   I believe the best thing that a judge can do
 6    to address the backlog is to actually be on the bench.
 7    It's difficult, I know as a prosecutor, to move any
 8    cases from our docket if the judge has either taken the
 9    day off or left early or things to that nature.  I know
10    things come up and that does happen and that's, of
11    course, understood.  But there's no way to move any
12    cases in trial court unless you're going to be
13    presiding from the bench.
14              I've talked to the assistant clerk of court
15    over at common pleas in Greenville and apparently
16    Greenville does have a very good system set up.  They
17    docket their cases and schedule their cases within nine
18    months to a year of trial, which I was impressed by.
19    So their request was also they would like a judge to
20    abide by the scheduling that they have set forth and to
21    be on the bench and work.
22         Q.   Ms. Hodge, as you know, the Upstate Citizens
23    Committee noted a lack of civil trial experience on
24    your part as you've spent your entire career in the
25    Solicitor's Office.  Do you perceive this lack of civil
0255
 1    law experience to be a particular problem and, if so,
 2    how would you work to overcome that?
 3         A.   I don't see that to be a problem for me
 4    personally.  I can understand that perception or that
 5    concern.  I have been a prosecutor all of my legal
 6    career, but what a prosecutor really is is a trial
 7    attorney.  And I have tried a large amount of cases, I
 8    believe, for someone in my years of experience.  You
 9    know, three to four jury trials a year is pretty good
10    for most trial attorneys.  Civil trial attorneys don't
11    generally get into that court often.
12              So I believe being a trial lawyer is going to
13    help me in the civil arena because the rules of
14    evidence, which are what I will be using to preside
15    over cases, apply in civil and criminal law.  And I'm
16    very well versed in the rules of evidence.
17              I understand there will be substantive
18    matters of law that I will need to brush up on, if you
19    will, study, and I will spend the time doing that.  I
20    feel like I'm an intelligent person.  I did well
21    academically and undergraduate here and also in law
22    school.  And I've got the capabilities to learn these
23    things, and I've also got the work ethic and the desire
24    to do well and to be a respected, knowledgeable judge.
25    So I would put forth every effort necessary to do that.
0256
 1              I think nowadays it would be difficult to
 2    find a candidate who could be extremely well versed in
 3    civil and criminal.  I don't think the legal community
 4    operates that way nowadays.  I think it's very
 5    specialized.  You've got certain types of things,
 6    medical malpractice, insurance defense, what have you,
 7    and some criminal.
 8              So I think that being a trial attorney is
 9    going to kind of bind me over and make it so that I can
10    preside effectively and competently and fairly in both
11    terms.
12         Q.   Thank you, Ms. Hodge.
13              I've got just a couple of housekeeping
14    matters I'm going through with you fairly quickly.
15              Have now sought or received the pledge of any
16    legislator prior to this date?
17         A.   No.
18         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
19    conditional pledge of support from any legislator
20    pending the outcome of your screening?
21         A.   No.
22         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
23    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
24         A.   No, I have not.
25         Q.   Have you contacted any members of this
0257
 1    commission?
 2         A.   No, I have not.
 3         Q.   Do you understand that you're prohibited from
 4    a seeking a pledge or a commitment until 48 hours after
 5    the formal release of the commission's report?
 6         A.   Yes, I do.
 7         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
 8    on pledging?
 9         A.   Yes, I have.
10         Q.   And as a quick follow up, are you aware of
11    the penalties for violating the pledging rules, that
12    is, it's a misdemeanor and upon conviction, the
13    violator must be fined not more than $1,000 or
14    imprisoned not more than 90 days?
15         A.   Yes.
16              MR. DENNIS:  Mr. Chairman, I would note that
17    the Upstate Citizens Committee reports that Ms. Hodge
18    is a qualified candidate despite their comment of her
19    lack of civil trial experience.
20              I would note for the record that any concerns
21    raised during the investigation regarding the candidate
22    were incorporated in the questioning of the candidate
23    today.
24              And Mr. Chairman, I have nothing further.
25              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, Mr. Dennis.
0258
 1              Does any member of the commission have any
 2    additional questions?
 3              Senator from Lexington.
 4              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
 5              Ms. Hodge, when did you decide that you
 6    wanted to be a judge, how long ago?
 7              MS. HODGE:  That would have to be in 1994
 8    when I clerked for Judge Johnson.  I really enjoyed
 9    working for him.  I thought that he was a great role
10    model.  I knew at that point I wanted to be a trial
11    attorney and ultimately end up as a judge.  I just
12    really thought that he was a great man, and he was the
13    one who inspired me.
14              SEN. KNOTTS:  Did you realize in order to be
15    a judge that you would need some experience in both
16    civil and criminal?
17              MS. HODGE:  I understood that at that time,
18    that was more what the quali--- I know still the
19    qualification at that time it was more common that the
20    judges did have both of those, and I do understand that
21    and I did understand that, yes, sir.
22              SEN. KNOTTS:  Why would you not have started
23    preparing yourself at that time to get the civil
24    experience that would be needed if you were going to be
25    applying for the judgeship?
0259
 1              MS. HODGE:  Well, personally, I love my job
 2    as an assistant solicitor and to leave that job to go
 3    out and possibly do some civil work, where I may or may
 4    not ever get into the court, on the chance that I may
 5    or may not be a judge at the time, I did not think that
 6    that was going to be in the best interest of me or the
 7    people in my community.
 8              I've had friends who are civil attorneys and
 9    until they've almost gotten to be a partner, they've
10    never actually tried a case.  And so I felt really I
11    was honing my skills better for a trial judge to be a
12    trial lawyer, and I continue doing the work that I
13    actually love to do at the same time.
14              SEN. KNOTTS:  If elected to be a judge, how
15    would you gain the civil trial experience needed to
16    handle civil cases if you didn't have time to do it
17    while you were assistant solicitor?
18              MS. HODGE:  I don't think I didn't have time
19    to do it, and I believe presiding over a civil trial --
20    I feel personally, of course I'm not there, but I feel
21    it would be very similar to presiding over criminal
22    trials.  It's still a trial.  I've done 50 or 60 of
23    those already.  And the same rules apply, the same
24    evidence apply -- rules of evidence apply.  So I think
25    that I have the experience to preside over those
0260
 1    trials.  It's the substantive law that I would need to
 2    really study and put a little more time into.
 3              SEN. KNOTTS:  You couldn't have done that
 4    prior to applying for a judgeship to get to study the
 5    substantive law?
 6              MS. HODGE:  I have been doing that since I
 7    decided to put my name in the hat for this.  I have
 8    been studying the civil law, yes, sir, I have.
 9              SEN. KNOTTS:  Last question.  You being
10    assistant solicitor for all these years, what is your
11    opinion an a judge's work week on the bench coming to
12    trial with backlogs?
13              MS. HODGE:  Well, I believe a judge should be
14    there as long as there's work to do, which in our
15    office there's work to do from essentially 8:30 to 5:00
16    Monday through Friday.  And that's the hours I would
17    keep as a judge, too.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
20              Senator from Charleston, Senator Ford.
21              SEN. FORD:  Did you practice any law when you
22    came out of college or you went straight to the
23    Solicitor's Office?
24              MS. HODGE:  I went straight to law school,
25    and then I went to clerk for Judge Johnson for one
0261
 1    year.
 2              SEN. FORD:  That's federal or state?
 3              MS. HODGE:  State.
 4              SEN. FORD:  Judge Johnson?
 5              MS. HODGE:  James W. Johnson, Jr.  I believe
 6    he was a representative before he was a judge.
 7              SEN. FORD:  Before my time, I think.
 8              So you started in the Solicitor's Office as
 9    soon as you came out of law school?
10              MS. HODGE:  After I clerked for the judge for
11    one year.
12              SEN. FORD:  How long has that been?
13              MS. HODGE:  That I clerked for him --
14              SEN. FORD:  How long have you been with the
15    Solicitor's Office?
16              MS. HODGE:  14 years.
17              SEN. FORD:  So in 14 years you're saying
18    judges in your circuit -- what circuit is this?
19              MS. HODGE:  The Thirteenth Circuit,
20    Greenville and Pickens.  Yes, sir.
21              SEN. FORD:  So they work a full week?
22              MS. HODGE:  For the most part, yes, sir, in
23    Greenville.  I cannot say that I have been to Pickens
24    for more than a day or two, so I'm not sure what
25    Pickens County --
0262
 1              SEN. FORD:  So on Thursday afternoon, your
 2    judges are working and all day Friday you're busy?
 3              MS. HODGE:  I know that our judges are
 4    working definitely all day Thursday and at least lunch
 5    or after lunch on Friday, that I've seen, sir.
 6              SEN. FORD:  Has that gone on for 14 years?
 7              MS. HODGE:  As far as I know, yes, sir.
 8              SEN. FORD:  Don't you have a severe backlog?
 9              MS. HODGE:  Of criminal cases?
10              SEN. FORD:  Yeah, in that circuit.  That's
11    second behind the Ninth.
12              MS. HODGE:  Second behind the Ninth in the
13    backlog of criminal cases?
14              SEN. FORD:  Yeah, uh-huh.
15              MS. HODGE:  I'm not aware of that, but it
16    might be.
17              SEN. FORD:  But you know what's good about
18    this screening is that everybody have a good answer on
19    that question.  Usually they tell us on Thursday
20    afternoon the judge can't be found and then Friday, you
21    know, ain't no sense in looking for him.  But you're
22    saying in your circuit, they work both Thursday
23    afternoon and all day Friday.
24              MS. HODGE:  It's been my experience that if
25    I'm in trial and it's on Thursday or Friday, the judge
0263
 1    is there and we're having a trial.  The backlog of
 2    cases in criminal court can be more related to the
 3    solicitor and the Solicitor's Office since we're in
 4    charge of that docket.
 5              SEN. FORD:  That's you?
 6              MS. HODGE:  Yes, sir.  That would be us.
 7              SEN. FORD:  So what did you do about it then?
 8              MS. HODGE:  Well, I have tried to manage my
 9    docket so that we are -- we are under a case management
10    system and I actually help the Solicitor Ariail work
11    through one of the first ones in the state.  I think
12    he's worked with Chief Justice Toal.  And that's what
13    we're trying to use to implement -- to get rid of the
14    backlog, having timelines and time constraints.
15              For years with the Solicitor's Offices, you
16    could have a case on your docket for two, three or four
17    years and it kind of went unchecked.  But now they're
18    implementing different time limits for various cases
19    and so that is what we're doing to try to resolve the
20    backlog.
21              SEN. FORD:  When I walk in -- I think I
22    walked in late.  Are you 100 percent civil or
23    100 percent criminal?
24              MS. HODGE:  100 percent criminal.
25              SEN. FORD:  No civil?
0264
 1              MS. HODGE:  No.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Sellers.
 3              MR. SELLERS:  Yes, ma'am.  I noticed in
 4    reading your material that you left the practice of law
 5    for a while.
 6              MS. HODGE:  I did.
 7              MR. SELLERS:  Did you lose interest in the
 8    practice of law?
 9              MS. HODGE:  I think I became frustrated
10    slightly.  I took one year off between 1999 to 2000.  I
11    had tried a few cases, and I think the idealism that I
12    had coming right out of law school, finally that bubble
13    burst, I think, and I needed to step away for about a
14    year.
15              Once I got away from it, what I did was I
16    sold pharmaceuticals and I did not enjoy that job.
17    That was not for me.  The main reason was because I did
18    not feel like I was actually contributing or -- and I
19    don't want to offend anybody.  I probably am going to
20    step on some toes, but I did not feel like I was doing
21    anything to contribute to society, to my community, and
22    it just really left me with a hollow, empty feeling.
23    And I came back and asked for my job back at the
24    Solicitor's Office.  The solicitor said, "I knew you
25    would be back."  So it was not for me to be out.
0265
 1              SEN. FORD:  I need to hear more of this.
 2              MS. HODGE:  This was the more interesting
 3    part.
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
 5              SEN. FORD:  What made you -- that year you
 6    was off, why did you leave?  I know what you say, but
 7    what was the bottom line?  What prompted you to leave?
 8    What were you dissatisfied with?
 9              MS. HODGE:  Well, there was a case that I had
10    tried that I did not feel that justice had been done in
11    the case, and it had probably been an accumulation of
12    many, many things that led up to it.  And that was kind
13    of the final straw.  And actually many of my friends
14    from college who were pharmaceutical sales reps and
15    they were --
16              SEN. FORD:  Okay.  When you say justice
17    wasn't done, you didn't put enough in it or the judge
18    was --
19              MS. HODGE:  It was a jury trial.  It was a
20    jury trial and I just felt that they did not reach --
21    they didn't reach a verdict.  It was a hung jury.  And
22    after the fact, after getting questionnaires back from
23    jurors, it was kind of discouraging and disheartening
24    some of the things they found important.
25              SEN. FORD:  Who fell short in their duties,
0266
 1    your office, the judge or what?
 2              MS. HODGE:  Well, it would have to be me
 3    because that was -- the burden is on the State, and I
 4    obviously did not prove my case to their satisfaction.
 5              SEN. FORD:  But you had everything you needed
 6    from -- your office opted to give you everything you
 7    needed in that particular trial?
 8              MS. HODGE:  Yes, sir.
 9              SEN. FORD:  You had investigators and all of
10    that stuff?  You had everything you needed?
11              MS. HODGE:  I did.
12              SEN. FORD:  You felt you didn't do a good
13    enough job for the State?
14              MS. HODGE:  I felt I did the best I could,
15    but I did not feel that the jury returned a verdict.
16    The lack of the verdict and their reasonings for it, I
17    felt were outside of the scope of what the law is
18    supposed to allow.
19              SEN. FORD:  That's what juries are for,
20    right?
21              MS. HODGE:  Absolutely.  That was just a
22    personal matter for me.
23              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
24              There being none --
25              SEN. KNOTTS:  One more.
0267
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Lexington.
 2              SEN. KNOTTS:  If that same situation occurred
 3    while you were a sitting judge, how would you handle
 4    that?
 5              MS. HODGE:  I have to say I would handle it
 6    much better now.  I'm obviously more mature.
 7              SEN. KNOTTS:  Tell me how you would handle
 8    it.
 9              MS. HODGE:  If there was something that was
10    brought to my attention during a trial, I would
11    certainly address that.  If there was jury tampering or
12    if there were jury nullification issues, I would
13    certainly have to address that.  The judge could
14    declare a mistrial, if necessary, if there were the law
15    or factual basis was there.  That was how I would
16    handle it if I was a sitting judge and it was presented
17    to me.  In that scenario, it was well after the fact
18    that I learned of some things.
19              SEN. KNOTTS:  Was there jury tampering?
20              MS. HODGE:  It was not jury tampering.  I
21    believe it was jury nullification.
22              SEN. FORD:  Jury what?
23              MS. HODGE:  Nullification.
24              SEN. FORD:  What does that mean?
25              MS. HODGE:  They basically relied on things
0268
 1    outside of the record and outside what I think they
 2    were deemed under oath to think about when they were
 3    returning a verdict.
 4              SEN. FORD:  That's not what a jury is
 5    supposed to do?
 6              MS. HODGE:  I believe they're sworn to follow
 7    the law as the judge gives it.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
 9              All right.  This will then conclude this
10    stage of the screening process.
11              Several things.  First of all, we thank you
12    for your cooperation with our staff for getting all the
13    paperwork to us.  Secondly, to remind you of the
14    48-hour rule.  Right now we hope we are on course to
15    issue a report around April the 23rd, which would
16    result in commitments being able to be gotten around
17    April 28th.  That could be subject to change should we
18    run into a snag.
19              Lastly, the commission reserves the right to
20    keep your hearing record open right up until the time
21    it issues a report so that if any matter comes up that
22    we need additional clarification on, we reserve the
23    right to do so.  That's not to indicate that there is
24    anything outstanding.
25              With that, we thank you for coming and wish
0269
 1    you a good day.
 2              MS. HODGE:  Thank you.  Thank you all for
 3    your time.
 4              SEN. FORD:  How long were you practicing
 5    before you made that decision?
 6              MS. HODGE:  Four years.
 7              SEN. FORD:  You were about what, 25, 26?
 8              MS. HODGE:  I was 18.  No, seriously -- I
 9    was -- I was 28.
10              SEN. FORD:  How long has that been ago?  How
11    long has that been?
12              MS. HODGE:  I'm 39.  That was 11 years ago.
13              SEN. FORD:  Okay.
14              MS. HODGE:  Thank you.
15              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
16              (Ms. Hodge exits the room.)
17              (Off the record.)
18              (Mr. Shealy enters the room.)
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We'll go back on the record
20    at this particular time.  And we have before us
21    Mr. Benjamin L. Shealy.  He's offering for the Circuit
22    Court, Thirteenth Circuit, seat number 3.
23              Good afternoon, Mr. Shealy.
24              MR. SHEALY:  Good afternoon,
25    Senator McConnell.
0270
 1              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Good to see you, sir.  If
 2    you would be so kind as to raise your right hand.
 3              Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole
 4    truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
 5              MR. SHEALY:  I do.
 6              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
 7              The Judicial Merit Selection Commission has
 8    thoroughly investigated your qualifications for the
 9    bench.  Our inquiries focused on our nine evaluative
10    criteria.  It's included a survey of the bench and bar,
11    a thorough study of your application materials, a
12    verification of your compliance with state ethics laws,
13    a search of newspaper articles in which your name
14    appears, a study of any previous screenings, if any,
15    and a check of economic conflicts of interest.
16              We received no affidavits filed in opposition
17    to your election and no witnesses are present to
18    testify.  So I would ask you if you have any brief
19    opening statement before I turn you over to Mr. Gentry,
20    our staff counsel, for some questions.
21              MR. SHEALY:  Thank you, Senator McConnell,
22    Ms. McLester, Gentlemen.  I would like to thank you
23    today for giving me the opportunity to speak with each
24    and every one of you to answer any questions that you
25    have for me about my qualifications and give you a
0271
 1    little insight about me.  Thank you.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.  Mr. Gentry.
 3              MR. GENTRY:  Mr. Chairman and Members of the
 4    Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take
 5    care of regarding Mr. Shealy.
 6              Mr. Shealy, you have before you your personal
 7    data questionnaire you submitted as part of your
 8    application.  Are there any amendments that you would
 9    like to make to your PDQ?
10              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.  I need to amend my
11    contact information.  On that contact information, I
12    have recently gone into private practice.  My new
13    business address is Post Office Box 1207, Newberry,
14    South Carolina 29108.  My office telephone number is
15    803-321-0000.
16              Additionally, in my letters of reference, I
17    indicated that a Cheryl Summers would write a letter of
18    reference for me.  Instead, her husband took the
19    opportunity to write the letter and his name is Joshua
20    Summers.  It is the same address.  And all information
21    on Mr. Summers is the same as his wife.
22              MR. GENTRY:  Mr. Shealy, if you would also
23    clarify as to exactly what your residence address is
24    right now.
25              MR. SHEALY:  My residence has not changed.
0272
 1    It is 204 Timberlane Drive, Easley, South Carolina
 2    29642.
 3              MR. GENTRY:  Thank you.
 4              At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would ask that
 5    Mr. Shealy's PDQ and amendments be entered as an
 6    exhibit into the hearing record.
 7              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 8              Hearing none, the personal data questionnaire
 9    and the amendments will be entered into the record at
10    this time.
11              (EXHIBIT 22, Personal Data Questionnaire of
12    Benjamin L. Shealy, admitted.)
13              MR. GENTRY:  Mr. Shealy, you have before you
14    also the sworn statement you provided with detailed
15    answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial
16    conduct, statutory qualifications, office
17    administration and temperament.
18              Are there any amendments you would like to
19    make to your sworn statement?
20              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, Mr. Gentry, I would like to
21    make an amendment to question number two.  I
22    incorrectly answered that question no.  It is certainly
23    my intention to serve the whole term, if elected.
24              Additionally, I would need to amend question
25    number 32.  It appears that I absolutely forgot to
0273
 1    answer that question at all.  I would like to tell the
 2    committee that I am familiar with the 48-hour rule that
 3    is in place.
 4              MR. GENTRY:  At this time, Mr. Chairman, I
 5    would like to ask that Mr. Shealy's sworn statement and
 6    his amendments be entered as an exhibit into the
 7    hearing record.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Is there any objection?
 9              There being none, the sworn statement and the
10    amendments will be entered into the record at this
11    time.
12              (EXHIBIT 23, Sworn Statement of Benjamin L.
13    Shealy, admitted.)
14              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Gentry.
15              MR. GENTRY:  One final procedural matter.  I
16    note for the record that based on the testimony
17    contained in Mr. Shealy's PDQ, that Mr. Shealy meets
18    the statutory requirements for this position regarding
19    age, residence and years of practice.
20              As a follow-up from my earlier question,
21    Mr. Shealy, if you would, please, inform the commission
22    of which circuit your residence is currently in.
23              MR. SHEALY:  My current residence is in the
24    Thirteen Circuit.
25    BY MR. GENTRY:
0274
 1         Q.   Mr. Shealy, if you explain to the commission,
 2    why do you want to serve as a Circuit Court judge?
 3         A.   There are three reasons that I would like to
 4    serve.  The first being that I believe it's a natural
 5    progression of my legal experience and my nonlegal
 6    experience.  I think with my civil practice and my
 7    criminal practice, I believe this is the logical move
 8    to make.  Additionally, I would like to serve the state
 9    in that role.  I believe I can provide some
10    improvements that I had seen over the years both in
11    criminal and civil court.
12         Q.   Would you please tell the members of the
13    commission what you think is the appropriate demeanor
14    for a judge.
15         A.   I think the appropriate demeanor is calm,
16    collected, and at all times fair and impartial.
17         Q.   You mentioned this in the answer to the
18    previous question, but I wanted to ask for your
19    explanation to the commission, how do you think your
20    experiences both public and private have prepared you
21    to become Circuit Court judge?
22         A.   I think certainly in my private experience
23    when I initially came out of the University of
24    South Carolina, I went into the military.  Military
25    provided me a great deal of experience in management,
0275
 1    how to run an office and the ability to check things
 2    out, recheck things.  And my legal experience, as I
 3    said, I have experience in the civil realm as well as
 4    the criminal realm, and I believe none of my opponents
 5    have the civil and the criminal experience which I do.
 6         Q.   What would you like for you legacy to be as a
 7    judge on the Circuit Court?
 8         A.   I would like that legacy to be one of
 9    fairness, someone who always listened to the parties,
10    someone that took the time and took the care to care
11    about the citizens of South Carolina.
12         Q.   What suggestions would you offer for
13    improving the backlog of criminal and civil cases on
14    the docket in Circuit Court?
15         A.   In the criminal realm, I believe the biggest
16    thing we can do is probably establish the docket system
17    very similar to what we have in the civil system where
18    you have the Circuit Court judge come in and call the
19    case, find out the information on the case, find out
20    the status of the case and where it is.  Hopefully,
21    that would speed up that process.
22              It's also in my time as a deputy solicitor,
23    assistant solicitor, I found oftentimes problems we
24    have with the defense bar being there on time and all
25    the times they're supposed to be there.  Without their
0276
 1    presence, we cannot make the criminal system work.
 2              As far as the civil system works, I think we
 3    need to probably expand the mediation system throughout
 4    the entire state.  I worked in Greenville for a number
 5    of years and that mediation system seemed to move a lot
 6    of the cases much faster than they would have
 7    otherwise.
 8         Q.   Thank you, Mr. Shealy.
 9              Have you sought or received a pledge of any
10    legislator prior to this date?
11         A.   I have not.
12         Q.   Have you sought or have you been offered a
13    conditional pledge of support of any legislator pending
14    the outcome of your screening?
15         A.   I have not.
16         Q.   Have you asked any third parties to contact
17    members of the General Assembly on your behalf?
18         A.   I have not.
19         Q.   Have you contacted any members of the
20    commission?
21         A.   I have not.
22         Q.   Do you understand that you're prohibited from
23    seeking a pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the
24    formal release of the commission's report?
25         A.   Yes, I do.
0277
 1         Q.   Have you reviewed the commission's guidelines
 2    on pledging?
 3         A.   I have.
 4         Q.   As follow up, are you aware of the penalties
 5    for violating the pledging rules, that is, it's a
 6    misdemeanor and upon conviction, a violator must be
 7    fined not more than $1,000 and imprisoned not more than
 8    90 days?
 9         A.   Yes, sir.
10              MR. GENTRY:  I would note that the Upstate
11    Citizens Committee reported that Mr. Shealy meets the
12    qualifications as set forth in the evaluative criteria.
13    The interviews and other sources utilized have led the
14    Upstate Citizens Committee to determine that he is well
15    qualified for the position he seeks.
16              I just note for the record that any concerns
17    raised during the investigation regarding Mr. Shealy
18    were incorporated in his questioning today.
19              Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.
20              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you, Mr. Gentry.
21              Let me see if any members of the commission
22    have questions.  Senator from Charleston, Senator Ford.
23              SEN. FORD:  Right now you're practicing in
24    Newberry, South Carolina.
25              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
0278
 1              SEN. FORD:  That's not the Thirteenth, right?
 2              MR. SHEALY:  No, sir, it's not.  It's the
 3    Eight Circuit.
 4              SEN. FORD:  How long have you been in
 5    South Carolina?
 6              MR. SHEALY:  I've been in South Carolina all
 7    my life with the exception of the time I was in the
 8    military.  I was in Arizona for approximately six
 9    months, and I was in Germany -- in Nuremberg, Germany,
10    for approximately two years -- excuse me, three years.
11              SEN. FORD:  But you was born in Virginia,
12    right?
13              MR. SHEALY:  No, sir.  I was born in Augusta,
14    Georgia.
15              SEN. FORD:  I got the wrong person then.  I
16    guess that's the next one.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions from the
18    commission?  Senator from Lexington.  You got one,
19    Senator from Charleston?
20              SEN. FORD:  Yeah.  Tell me you -- okay.  You
21    say you balance civil and criminal cases right now.
22              MR. SHEALY:  Well, my experience, Senator
23    Ford, what I meant, approximately 14 years as of
24    November of this year, I will have 14 years of practice
25    in the law.  I have approximately seven years in
0279
 1    criminal and seven years in civil work.  So I've done
 2    both of them.
 3              SEN. FORD:  You're prepared.
 4              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
 5              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Senator from Lexington.
 6              SEN. KNOTTS:  Your experience in -- thank
 7    you, Mr. Chairman.
 8              In your experience in 14 years, I imagine
 9    you've seen a lot in the courtroom?
10              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir, I have.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  Okay.  Have you ever
12    experienced a time you wish you had a judge so you
13    could move forward on a case whenever a judge wasn't
14    present?
15              MR. SHEALY:  There are times when judges seem
16    to leave early.  Especially, I would say on Friday
17    afternoon, they seem to --
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  What would be your work
19    schedule?  Would you follow in those footsteps, or
20    would you continue trying to work the full week?
21              MR. SHEALY:  I think the proper thing to do
22    is work as you're employed.  And to me, you're employed
23    to work as early as you need to til as late as you need
24    to to resolve the cases in front of you.  Whether that
25    be 8:00, 8:30 in the morning until 10:00 at night.
0280
 1              Now, I'm aware that the chief justices have
 2    come down and said we need to make sure that when we
 3    have juries, we need to try to get them out of there as
 4    close to 5:00 or 6:00 as we can.  Obviously within
 5    those constraints, I'm more than willing to work any
 6    number of hours it takes.
 7              SEN. KNOTTS:  What circuit have you worked
 8    in?
 9              MR. SHEALY:  I work in the Eighth Circuit and
10    I worked in the Thirteenth Circuit.
11              SEN. KNOTTS:  Eighth and the Thirteenth?
12              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
13              SEN. KNOTTS:  Eighth being?
14              MR. SHEALY:  That's Abbeville.
15              SEN. KNOTTS:  Abbeville?
16              MR. SHEALY:  Greenville, Newberry and
17    Laurens.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  And Thirteenth being
19    Greenville?
20              MR. SHEALY:  Greenville and Pickens, yes,
21    sir.
22              SEN. KNOTTS:  And you've seen that in just
23    about every circuit you've worked in?
24              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir, that's true.
25              SEN. KNOTTS:  Thank you for being honest.
0281
 1              MR. SHEALY:  Sure.
 2              SEN. KNOTTS:  You must wear glasses.
 3              MR. SHEALY:  No, sir, not at all.
 4              SEN. KNOTTS:  The others must not wear
 5    glasses.  Thank you.
 6              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
 7              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Mr. Sellers.
 8              MR. SELLERS:  How long have you been in
 9    Newberry, Mr. Shealy?
10              MR. SHEALY:  I've been in Newberry
11    approximately a month as far as this term.  I was
12    originally assigned, when I came out of law school, I
13    worked with a private practice there.  I was in
14    practice there approximately 18 months before I went to
15    the Eighth Circuit Solicitor's Office.  I was with the
16    Eighth Circuit Solicitor's Office, I worked in the
17    Newberry office almost exclusively for two years after
18    that.  Then I went to the Thirteenth Circuit.
19              And this time I've been with the Eighth
20    Circuit, I've been scattered around as far as Laurens
21    and Newberry and Abbeville.  That's to say the last two
22    years I was the deputy solicitor in Abbeville.  But as
23    far as right now, approximately a month.
24              MR. SELLERS:  In civil practice?
25              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir, we do basically all
0282
 1    types of civil work.
 2              MR. SELLERS:  Why did you leave the Eighth
 3    Circuit Solicitor's Office?
 4              MR. SHEALY:  I thought there was an
 5    opportunity for me to leave at that time.  We are
 6    currently in the office that Bubba Griffith, now Judge
 7    Griffith, used to reside in.  He was probably one of
 8    the more active attorneys in Newberry.  Most of your
 9    attorneys there are getting a little older, they're not
10    taking on new clients.  And therefore, my partner and I
11    saw the opportunity there to come in.
12              I would like to think I'm fairly young and my
13    partner is younger than I am, so I think we have a
14    vitality that we could take on cases and it would allow
15    us to do maybe a little better than we were doing with
16    the Solicitor's Office.
17              MR. SELLERS:  You're driving from Easley to
18    Newberry?
19              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
20              MR. SELLERS:  Thank you, sir.
21              MR. SHEALY:  Yes, sir.
22              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any other questions?
23              If not, this concludes this stage of the
24    screening process.  First of all, I want to thank you
25    for your cooperation with our staff on getting all the
0283
 1    paperwork done so we could have this hearing.
 2    Secondly, we want to remind you again about the 48-hour
 3    rule.  The commission is tentatively set hopefully to
 4    issue an opinion around the April 23rd which would
 5    result in commitments being available to be gotten
 6    around 12 noon on the 28th.  And that maybe subject to
 7    some change if we got bogged down along the way.
 8              Lastly, I would tell you that we keep the
 9    record open up until we issue a public decision, which
10    means that this panel could decide to resume a hearing
11    or contact you for additional information if something
12    came out.  That's not to indicate that there's anything
13    pending out there, but it's just something we like to
14    make clear.  With that, we thank you and welcome to go
15    and have a good day, sir.
16              MR. SHEALY:  Thank you, sir.
17              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Thank you.
18              (Mr. Shealy exits the room.)
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  I would ask if
20    there's a motion to go into executive session to
21    discuss any matters on the testimony we have heard
22    today?
23              SEN. FORD:  We have one more, right?
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes, sir, but we still have
25    one race ahead of this that we took testimony from.
0284
 1              REP. MACK:  So moved.
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Motion made and seconded.
 3              SEN. FORD:  We have one more candidate?
 4              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Yes sir, but that's in this
 5    race.  There was a previous race we had two candidates.
 6              SEN. KNOTTS:  We're not going into session
 7    over these.
 8              SEN. MCCONNELL:  We're not going to take any
 9    votes.  Those votes will be taken in open session after
10    we've taken all of the testimony.
11              SEN. FORD:  Are we are going to do Stilwell?
12              SEN. MCCONNELL:  No, sir.  That comes
13    tomorrow.
14              Is there an objection to going into executive
15    session?
16              There being none, it's a unanimous vote.
17    Please lower the veil.  I'll cut my big microphone off.
18              (The members went into executive session at
19    4:47 p.m.)
20              (The hearing was continued under a separate
21    restricted record.)
22   
23   
24   
25   
0297
 1                       *  *  *  *  *  *
 2              SEN. MCCONNELL:  All right.  What we'll do
 3    first is take up on the Circuit Court, Tenth Circuit,
 4    seat one, we had two candidates, Rame L. Campbell and
 5    R. Lawton McIntosh.  I would ask if any member -- let
 6    me ask, first of all, Mr. Rame Campbell, the question
 7    is, is he qualified?  All in favor of him being
 8    qualified, please raise your right hand.
 9              MS. SHULER:  Are you voting Clemmons' proxy?
10              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Clemmons' proxy.  Thank you.
11              Unanimous.
12              All right.  On the question of R. Lawton
13    McIntosh, qualified, all in favor?  Including the
14    proxy.
15              Unanimous.
16              That's it for today.  I have a motion to
17    recede until the next call.
18              SEN. KNOTTS:  Qualified and nominated.
19              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Oh, qualified and -- that
20    is --
21              PROF. FREEMAN:  Mr. Chairman, I move we find
22    them qualified and nominated.
23              REP. MACK:  Second.
24              SEN. MCCONNELL:  Any discussion?  There being
25    no discussion, all in favor please raise your hand,
0298
 1    including the proxy.
 2              Thank you.  Unanimous.
 3              All right.  With that, we'll stand in recess
 4    till tomorrow morning.
 5              (The hearing recessed at 5:02 p.m.)
 6   
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0299
 1                    CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
 2                   I, Sheri L. Byers, Registered
      Professional Reporter and Notary Public for the
 3    State of South Carolina at Large, do hereby
      certify:
 4                   That the foregoing proceedings was
      taken before me on the date and at the time
 5    mentioned on page 1 and the proceedings were
      recorded stenographically by me and were thereafter
 6    transcribed under my direction; that the foregoing
      transcript as typed is a true, accurate and
 7    complete record of the proceedings to the best of
      my ability.
 8                   I further certify that I am neither
      related to nor counsel for any party to the cause
 9    pending or interested in the events thereof.
                     Witness my hand, I have hereunto
10    affixed my official seal this 21st day of April,
      2009, at Columbia, Richland County, South Carolina.
11   
12   
                         ______________________________
13                       Sheri L. Byers,
                         Registered Professional Reporter,
14                       Notary Public
                         State of South Carolina at Large
15                       My Commission expires:
                         January 5, 2014
16   
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22   
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25   
0300
 1                           I N D E X
 2    CANDIDATE                                Page
 3    KAYE G. HEARN                             29
 4    DEADRA L. JEFFERSON                       46
 5    A.E. MOREHEAD, III                        72
 6    H. BRUCE WILLIAMS                         87
 7    JOHN C. FEW                              129
 8    RAME L. CAMPBELL                         175
 9    LAWTON MCINTOSH                          203
10    ERIC K. ENGLEBARDT                       215
11    ALLEN O. FRETWELL                        229
12    KRISTIE B. HODGE                         249
13    BENJAMIN L. SHEALY                       269
14   
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0301
 1                        E X H I B I T S
 2    1      Committee Reports                  29
 3    2      Personal Data Questionnaire of     30
             Kaye G. Hearn
 4   
      3      Sworn Statement of Kaye G. Hearn   32
 5   
      4      Personal Data Questionnaire of     48
 6           Deadra L. Jefferson
 7    5      Sworn Statement of                 50
             Deadra L. Jefferson
 8   
      6      Personal Data Questionnaire of     76
 9           A.E. Morehead, III
10    7      Sworn Statement of                 77
             A.E. Morehead, III
11   
      8      Personal Data Questionnaire of     89
12           H. Bruce Williams
13    9      Sworn Statement of                 90
             H. Bruce Williams
14   
      10     Personal Data Questionnaire of    122
15           John C. Few
16    11     Sworn Statement of John C. Few    123
17    12     Personal Data Questionnaire of    176
             Rame L. Campbell
18   
      13     Sworn Statement of                177
19           Rame L. Campbell
20    14     Personal Data Questionnaire of    205
             Lawton McIntosh
21   
      15     Sworn Statement of                206
22           Lawton McIntosh
23    16     Personal Data Questionnaire of    217
             Eric K. Englebardt
24   
      17     Sworn Statement of                218
25           Eric K. Englebardt
0302
 1                      EXHIBITS CONTINUED
 2    18     Personal Data Questionnaire of    231
             Allen O. Fretwell
 3   
      19     Sworn Statement of                232
 4           Allen O. Fretwell
 5    20     Personal Data Questionnaire of    251
             Kristie B. Hodge
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      21     Sworn Statement of                252
 7           Kristie B. Hodge
 8    22     Personal Data Questionnaire of    272
             Benjamin Shealy
 9   
      23     Sworn Statement of                273
10           Benjamin Shealy
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