0001 1 JUDICIAL MERIT SELECTION COMMITTEE 2 3 EVALUATION OF CANDIDATES 4 BY COMMITTEE MEMBERS 5 6 7 PUBLIC HEARINGS ON JUDICIAL QUALIFICATIONS 8 9 PUBLIC SESSION 10 VOLUME II 11 12 TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2009 13 ROOM 105, GRESSETTE BUILDING 14 COLUMBIA, SOUTH CAROLINA 15 COMMENCING AT 9:16 A.M. 16 17 REPORTED BY: YVONNE R. BOHANNON Registered Merit Reporter, 18 Certified Realtime Reporter 19 -------------------------------------------------- 20 21 COMPUSCRIPTS, INC. A Full-Service Court Reporting Agency 22 Post Office Box 7172 Columbia, South Carolina 29202 23 1-803-988-0086 1-888-988-0086 24 www.compuscriptsinc.com 25 0002 1 MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE: 2 SENATOR GLENN F. McCONNELL, SENATOR 3 REPRESENTATIVE F. G. DELLENEY, JR., VICE SENATOR 4 REPRESENTATIVE ALAN D. CLEMMONS 5 PROFESSOR JOHN P. FREEMAN 6 JOHN DAVIS HARRELL 7 SENATOR JOHN M. "JAKE" KNOTTS, JR. 8 REPRESENTATIVE DAVID J. MACK, III 9 AMY JOHNSON McLESTER 10 SENATOR FLOYD NICHOLSON 11 H. DONALD SELLERS 12 COUNSEL PRESENT: 13 JANE O. SHULER, CHIEF COUNSEL 14 HEATHER ANDERSON 15 PAULA BENSON 16 NANCY COOMBS 17 JOEL DEASON 18 PATRICK DENNIS 19 ANDY FIFFICK 20 RUCK FULMER 21 J. J. GENTRY 22 BONNIE GOLDSMITH 23 KATHERINE WELLS 24 25 (INDEX AT REAR OF TRANSCRIPT) 0003 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We're 2 going to call the public hearings on judicial 3 qualifications to order at this time. 4 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 5 is called pursuant to Chapter 19 of Title 2 South 6 Carolina Code of Laws requiring the review of the 7 candidates for judicial office. The function of 8 the Commission is not to choose between candidates 9 but rather declare whether or not the candidates 10 who offer for positions on the bench in our 11 judgment are qualified to fill the positions they 12 seek. The inquiry we undertake is a thorough one. 13 It's centered around the Commission's nine 14 evaluative criteria and involves a complete 15 personal and professional background check on every 16 candidate. 17 These public hearings are convened for 18 the purpose of screening candidates for the 19 following positions: One vacancy on the Supreme 20 Court, one vacancy on the Court of Appeals, 12 21 vacancies on the Circuit Court, 22 vacancies on the 22 Family Court, two vacancies on the Administrative 23 Law Court, six vacancies on the Equity Court, and 24 ten retired judges. 25 For today we will screen one vacancy 0004 1 for the Circuit Court, seven vacancies on the 2 Family Court, one vacancy on the Administrative Law 3 Court, and one retired judge. 4 I am advised by staff that we need 5 before we undertake our public hearings this 6 morning to go in executive session for the purpose 7 of receiving some personal information on 8 candidates. Is there an objection to going into 9 executive session? 10 If not, let the record show for the 11 purposes of -- we've got Senator Nicholson and 12 Representative Clemmons. You can see around -- if 13 you will just go around and record the names of 14 everyone here who is present to vote for executive 15 session. I'll give you a second to go right 16 around. 17 (The following members were present 18 when the executive session began: Representative 19 Delleney, Professor Freeman, Representative Mack, 20 Ms. McLester, Senator McConnell, and Mr. Sellers. 21 Mr. Harrell and Senator Knotts later joined the 22 session that was already in progress.) 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. 24 Executive session. 25 Sergeant, please secure the chambers. 0005 1 We can go off the record for a minute. 2 (Off the record.) 3 (The members went into executive 4 session at 9:18 a.m.) 5 * * * * * 6 (The members returned to open session 7 9:45 a.m.) 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll go back on 9 the record. 10 We're back in open session. We just 11 completed the executive session. No formal actions 12 were taken in executive session, and we are now 13 ready to begin our hearing. 14 The first one we have before us is The 15 Honorable Steven H. John who is offering for 16 Circuit Court, Fifteenth Judicial Circuit, Seat 17 Number 1 this morning. 18 Good morning, sir. 19 JUDGE JOHN: Good morning, Senator. 20 How are you doing? 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good to have you 22 with us. 23 JUDGE JOHN: Thank you, sir. 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: If you'd be so kind 25 as to raise your right hand. 0006 1 (Candidate sworn.) 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 3 Selection has thoroughly investigated your 4 qualifications for the bench. Our inquiries 5 focused on our nine evaluative criteria. It has 6 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 7 thorough study of your application materials, 8 verification of your compliance with state ethics 9 laws, search of newspaper articles in which your 10 name appears, study of previous screenings, and a 11 check for economic conflicts of interest. 12 We have received no affidavits filed in 13 opposition to your election, and no witnesses are 14 present to testify. 15 I would ask if you have any brief 16 opening statement you'd like to make. It's purely 17 optional at this time. I'm going to turn you over 18 to counsel who will have just a few questions for 19 you, see if the Commission has any questions, and 20 that will about wrap it up. 21 JUDGE JOHN: I'd be glad to proceed to 22 the questions. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Please 24 answer counsel's questions. 25 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, just a few 0007 1 procedural matters to take care of with Judge John. 2 Judge John, you have before you a 3 personal data questionnaire and a previously 4 submitted amendment. Are there any additional 5 amendments you'd like to make to your PDQ at this 6 time. 7 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 8 MR. DENNIS: At this time, 9 Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that Judge John -- Judge 10 John's personal data questionnaire and the 11 amendment be entered as exhibits into the record. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 13 so ordered. 14 (EXH. 1, Personal Data Questionnaire 15 and Amendment of Mr. Steven H. John, admitted.) 16 MR. DENNIS: Judge John, you also have 17 before you your sworn statement that you provided 18 to the Commission which answers in detail over 30 19 questions regarding judicial conduct, statutory 20 qualifications, office administration, and 21 temperament. Are there any amendments that you'd 22 like to make to that sworn statement at this time? 23 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 24 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that 25 Judge John's sworn statement be entered into the 0008 1 record. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 3 so ordered. 4 (EXH. 2, Sworn Statement of Steven H. 5 John, admitted.) 6 MR. DENNIS: One final procedural 7 matter. I note for the record that based on the 8 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ which 9 has been included in the record with the 10 candidate's consent, Judge John meets the statutory 11 requirements for this position regarding age, 12 residence, and years of practice. 13 Judge John, why do you want to continue 14 serving as a Circuit Court judge? 15 JUDGE JOHN: The first thing that 16 always comes to mind when people ask that question 17 is true, that I love my job. I -- it's -- it 18 really is something that I feel that -- almost that 19 I was born to do. It's a job that -- that enables 20 me to not only help the judicial system but to 21 frankly experience a -- a job that I love going -- 22 going to work, and that's -- I don't know that's 23 something a lot of people can -- can say. 24 MR. DENNIS: Judge, when the time comes 25 for you to leave the bench, what would you like for 0009 1 your legacy on the court to have been? 2 JUDGE JOHN: That I was -- I was fair. 3 Didn't matter who was in front of me, what the 4 issues were, whatever the magnitude of them, that I 5 was fair and treated everybody appropriately. 6 MR. DENNIS: Judge, in your sworn 7 statement you discussed a little bit what the 8 appropriate demeanor for a judge would be. Would 9 you expand on that for the Commission just a little 10 bit? 11 JUDGE JOHN: Well, obviously when the 12 people come in front of you and -- and not only 13 when it's just lawyers, but when you have citizens 14 that are coming before the Court, you obviously 15 need to give them a full and complete opportunity 16 to air their differences or what -- what the 17 problems are. 18 I -- I am known to be a judge that -- 19 that will -- I believe it's -- I do believe it's my 20 courtroom. There is proper demeanor for all 21 parties to -- to be in the courtroom, but within 22 that boundary to allow free expression and 23 everybody to present their case for a fair hearing. 24 MR. DENNIS: Judge, what suggestions 25 could you offer the Commission for improving the 0010 1 backlog of cases on the docket for both General 2 Sessions and Common Pleas? 3 JUDGE JOHN: The Common Pleas certainly 4 we need to -- in the counties that have it to make 5 sure that they are aggressively pursuing mediation 6 in the counties that may not be participating in 7 that program. Definitely a civil docket mediation 8 is very helpful and -- and warranted. 9 In the -- in the criminal docket, we -- 10 you know, you have a situation where obviously the 11 solicitor is in control of the criminal docket. I 12 would think maybe some oversight in that -- that 13 regard -- not taking any control away from the 14 solicitors or the docket, but some oversight, but 15 to make sure that the older cases are coming to 16 trial and they are getting resolved and people 17 are -- that are in the county jails are being 18 treated appropriately. They're either, you know, 19 serving their time there or having a case resolved 20 or going on to the Department of Corrections, one 21 of the two. 22 MR. DENNIS: Thank you very much, Judge 23 John. 24 I'm going to run through just a couple 25 of quick housekeeping matters with you. 0011 1 Have you sought or received a pledge of 2 any legislator prior to today? 3 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 4 MR. DENNIS: Have you sought or have 5 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 6 any legislator pending the outcome of your 7 screening? 8 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 9 MR. DENNIS: Have you asked any third 10 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 11 on your behalf? 12 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 13 MR. DENNIS: Have you contacted any 14 members of this Commission? 15 JUDGE JOHN: No, sir. 16 MR. DENNIS: Do you understand that you 17 are prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 18 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 19 Commission's report? 20 JUDGE JOHN: Yes, sir. 21 MR. DENNIS: Have you reviewed the 22 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 23 JUDGE JOHN: I have. 24 MR. DENNIS: And as a follow-up, are 25 you aware of the penalties for violating the 0012 1 pledging rules and, that is, that it's a 2 misdemeanor and carries up to $1,000 or 90 days in 3 jail? 4 JUDGE JOHN: I am aware of that. 5 MR. DENNIS: I would note that the Pee 6 Dee Citizens Committee reported that Judge John was 7 well qualified in each of the nine evaluative 8 criteria. And I would note that any concerns 9 raised during the investigation regarding the 10 candidate were incorporated into the questioning of 11 the candidate today. 12 And, Mr. Chairman, I have nothing 13 further. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 15 Does any member of the Commission have 16 a question? 17 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Mr. Chairman. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Representative 19 Clemmons. 20 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Thank you 21 very much. Representative Clemmons. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: That's what I said. 23 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: I thought I 24 heard senator. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: No, I think the 0013 1 Charlestonese is -- 2 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Excuse me, 3 Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman. 4 Judge, thank you so much for being here 5 today. Thank you for your public service. 6 Ladies and gentlemen, Judge John is in 7 my circuit. 8 And I'd just like to say, Judge, thank 9 you for the wonderful job that you do in serving 10 the people. I appreciate your response to the 11 questions -- the question on demeanor and 12 temperament and your general philosophy. That's a 13 very important issue for me and for all of us 14 around this -- this dais, that a judge maintain the 15 proper demeanor and temperament in the courtroom 16 and treat all litigants and attorneys respectfully, 17 and you -- you shared your -- your thought a moment 18 ago that the courtroom is your courtroom. It is 19 your courtroom, but it's also the people's 20 courtroom. 21 JUDGE JOHN: I understand. 22 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: And I know 23 you do understand that, and I know that you are 24 respectful to all -- all litigants and attorneys, 25 and I appreciate that. And I just wanted to bring 0014 1 that to your attention, as I am some other -- as I 2 am other Circuit Court judges, that we hold -- we 3 hold that trait of a judge very important, demeanor 4 and temperament, and we appreciate your carrying 5 that into the courtroom. 6 JUDGE JOHN: I understand that fully, 7 sir. 8 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE JOHN: Thank you. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other? 11 We want to thank you for your service 12 to the people of South Carolina and reiterate what 13 the representative said. Justice -- temperament is 14 important to justice. 15 JUDGE JOHN: Yes, sir. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: And we appreciate 17 your good record. 18 JUDGE JOHN: Thank you. 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, this 20 concludes this portion of our screening process. 21 As you know, the record will remain 22 open until the report is published, and you could 23 be called back at such time if there was a 24 question. That's not to indicate there is such a 25 question, but just to establish our policy. 0015 1 Remind you of the 48-hour rule. Ask 2 you to be mindful of it. If you hear of anybody 3 advocating for somebody that has been screened out 4 for or against them, remind them of the 48-hour 5 rule. 6 JUDGE JOHN: Yes, sir. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, you're 8 free to go and thank you for your cooperation. 9 JUDGE JOHN: I appreciate the 10 opportunity to appear in front of the Commission. 11 Thank you all very much. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 13 (Candidate excused.) 14 (Off the record.) 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 16 go back on the record at this point. 17 We have before us The Honorable Alvin 18 D. Johnson, Family Court, Thirteenth Judicial 19 Circuit, Seat Number 4. 20 Good morning, sir. 21 JUDGE JOHNSON: Good morning. Thank 22 you. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good to have you 24 with us. 25 If you'd be so kind as to raise your 0016 1 right hand. 2 (Candidate sworn.) 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 4 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 5 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquiry has 6 focused on our nine evaluative criteria and has 7 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 8 thorough study of your application materials, a 9 verification of your compliance with state ethics 10 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 11 name appears, a study of previous screenings, and a 12 check for economic conflicts of interest. 13 We received no affidavits filed in 14 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 15 present to testify. 16 Ask you if you wish to make any opening 17 statement. It's purely optional. We will have our 18 staff counsel ask you a few questions and then I'll 19 see if the commissioners have anything, and then 20 we'll wrap it up. 21 JUDGE JOHNSON: Thank you. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 23 Please answer counsel's questions. 24 MS. ANDERSON: Mr. Chairman and members 25 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 0017 1 to take care of with Judge Johnson. 2 Judge Johnson, you have before you the 3 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 4 of your application. Is there any amendment that 5 you would like to make at this time to your PDQ? 6 JUDGE JOHNSON: Other than the letter 7 that I sent where we made a typographical error on 8 the North Greenville College, I believe we put '86 9 and it should have been '81. 10 MS. ANDERSON: And that was question 11 number seven, correct? 12 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes. 13 MS. ANDERSON: Okay. Mr. Chairman, I 14 would like to ask that Judge Johnson's personal 15 data questionnaire and amendment be entered as an 16 exhibit into the hearing record. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Is there any 18 objection? There being none, so ordered. 19 (EXH. 3, Personal Data Questionnaire of 20 Mr. Alvin D. Johnson, admitted.) 21 MS. ANDERSON: Judge Johnson, you have 22 before you the sworn statement you provided with 23 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 24 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 25 administration, and temperament. Is there any 0018 1 amendment you would like to make at this time to 2 your sworn statement? 3 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 4 MS. ANDERSON: At this time, 5 Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that Judge 6 Johnson's sworn statement be entered as an exhibit 7 into the hearing record. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 9 objection, so ordered. 10 (EXH. 4, Sworn Statement of Alvin Dean 11 Johnson, admitted.) 12 MS. ANDERSON: One final procedural 13 matter. I note for the record that based on the 14 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ which 15 has been included in the record with the 16 candidate's consent, Judge Johnson meets the 17 statutory requirements for this position regarding 18 age, residence, and years of practice. 19 Judge Johnson, would you please state 20 your home address, including the city and judicial 21 circuit. 22 JUDGE JOHNSON: I reside at 524 North 23 Glassy Mountain Road, Pickens, South Carolina, 24 29671. That's in the county of Pickens, state of 25 South Carolina. 0019 1 MS. ANDERSON: Why do you want to 2 continue serving as a Family Court judge? 3 JUDGE JOHNSON: Well, I -- this is my 4 13th and a half year, and I think that we certainly 5 have made an impact in what we're doing, and I 6 would like to continue in the job which I've been 7 doing. I believe that we do make a difference in 8 the lives of our young people in our county, and 9 I've been doing it 13 and a half years and I'm not 10 finished. And I hope to continue doing -- doing 11 the work I've been doing. 12 MS. ANDERSON: Judge Johnson, although 13 you address this in your sworn affidavit, could you 14 please explain to the members of the Commission 15 what you think is the appropriate demeanor for a 16 judge. 17 JUDGE JOHNSON: I believe that a judge 18 should be kind. They should treat others as they 19 want to be treated. And there are times when a 20 judge has to be stern but with kindness, and that 21 is the manner that I try to exercise in my duties, 22 and I believe that to be the appropriate. 23 MS. ANDERSON: When you leave the 24 bench, what would you like your legacy to be as a 25 judge on the Family Court? 0020 1 JUDGE JOHNSON: You know, when I was 2 growing up, my daddy -- we used to sit on the front 3 porch like most -- most people, and this would have 4 been in the early '60s, mid '60s, because I was 5 just a young boy. And I remember a man who I 6 didn't know who come up to the house, and he -- my 7 daddy was a deacon at the church, taught Sunday 8 school. And he asked my daddy, he says, you know, 9 "We're looking for Christian men to join this 10 organization," and I never heard of it. It was the 11 Ku Klux Klan. And I remember my father. He looked 12 at that man and he said, "Who did Christ die for?" 13 I don't remember what the man said, but I remember 14 my daddy told him everybody, and he run him off. 15 And on Sundays we would go to the jail. 16 He would take us to the jail one Sunday a month, 17 and we would go to the jail, just children, doing 18 ministry to the inmates. My father treated 19 everybody fair, and he treated everybody the same. 20 And my legacy that I want to leave my children is 21 the same as he left me. I want to be fair to those 22 who come in front of me. I don't want there to be 23 a difference if -- if they got a hundred million 24 dollars or five dollars, if they're educated or 25 uneducated. 0021 1 When I finish my job, if it be now, 2 after 14 years or it be hopefully 25 years, I want 3 it to be said about Alvin Johnson, "He didn't make 4 them different. He treated everybody the same. He 5 was fair." That's what is the legacy that I want 6 to leave. 7 MS. ANDERSON: What suggestions would 8 you offer for improving the backlog of the cases on 9 the docket in Family Court? 10 JUDGE JOHNSON: In -- in my circuit, 11 the Thirteenth Circuit, we -- the chief justice has 12 set a benchmark several years back that every -- 13 the goal in every circuit is to have no more than 14 20 percent of our cases older than a year, or in 15 other words, we need to try to do at least 80 16 percent of our cases within one year. 17 Right now if you look at the benchmark, 18 the Thirteenth Circuit, we are doing -- we are 19 handling 87 percent of our cases within a year's 20 time, and we do that by working. And there are a 21 number of things that I believe have helped us be 22 successful if you look at the record over the last 23 three years, and -- and a year and a half of that 24 time I was the chief judge for Pickens and 25 Greenville counties. We -- we have an A and B 0022 1 case. When we have contested cases if we are -- it 2 gets in a mess, we have an A, B and C, so we are 3 ready to work every day. 4 I believe that I was the first judge -- 5 we do a five-minute docket on an uncontested 6 divorce, and we started that in Pickens and Judge 7 Bartlett later adopted that in Greenville. 8 We -- the other big success I believe 9 has been mediation. Mediation really works. You 10 send the folks to an independent lawyer who -- who 11 has never -- doesn't have any side sit down with 12 them. Some mediators have a 92 percent settlement 13 rate, and the cost is not that much as compared to 14 if they have to try their case and go to trial. So 15 it's been very effective. 16 I mean, you can look at the numbers, 17 and I think when you adopt that and you work, you 18 can -- you can move the cases, and our record 19 speaks for itself. 20 MS. ANDERSON: What is your general 21 philosophy to grant continuances to pro se 22 litigants? 23 JUDGE JOHNSON: It depends on the 24 reason that they ask for the continuance. If -- if 25 it's just because they want a continuance, it would 0023 1 be treated the same as if they were a lawyer, if 2 it's understandable. If it's because they're sick 3 or a witness all the sudden had to go to -- out of 4 town for business or something of that nature, I 5 will continue the case. 6 Oftentimes when they come in, they are 7 not prepared with their paperwork, and I generally 8 will give them one continuance for that. But -- so 9 it depends on the circumstance. 10 MS. ANDERSON: We received one bench 11 and bar survey that I would like to address with 12 you and give you the opportunity to respond. 13 The -- the respondent stated and I quote, He can 14 seem short on the bench occasionally cutting off an 15 attorney before he can finish his statement or 16 argument. This seems to happen when he's heard 17 enough and made up his mind on his ruling. Not 18 improper, but can sometimes make a client think 19 you're not doing the best job for them. 20 How would you respond to this 21 statement? 22 JUDGE JOHNSON: Generally speaking, as 23 a lot of you may know, we have 15 minutes to do a 24 temporary hearing, and I allow the lawyers to make 25 an argument. I know some judges don't. So -- but 0024 1 when you've got 15 minutes, sometimes you have to 2 stop the lawyer, and -- and I don't mean to do it 3 any way disrespectful to them, and I'll be more 4 conscious about that and try to explain to them. 5 But you cannot when you're running a 15-minute 6 docket let the lawyer talk ten minutes, and some of 7 them will do that. So -- but I'll try to make sure 8 I do it in a respectful way. 9 MS. ANDERSON: Thank you, Judge 10 Johnson. 11 I have a few housekeeping issues to go 12 over with you. 13 JUDGE JOHNSON: Okay. 14 MS. ANDERSON: Have you sought or 15 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 16 date? 17 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 18 MS. ANDERSON: Have you sought or have 19 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 20 any legislator pending the outcome of your 21 screening? 22 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 23 MS. ANDERSON: Have you asked any third 24 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 25 on your behalf? 0025 1 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 2 MS. ANDERSON: Do you understand that 3 you are prohibited from seeking a pledge or 4 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 5 of the Commission's report? 6 JUDGE JOHNSON: Would you repeat that 7 question? 8 MS. ANDERSON: Uh-huh. Do you 9 understand that you are prohibited from seeking a 10 pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the 11 formal release of the Commission's report? 12 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. 13 MS. ANDERSON: Have you contacted any 14 members of the Commission? 15 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, ma'am. 16 MS. ANDERSON: Have you reviewed the 17 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 18 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. 19 MS. ANDERSON: And as a follow-up, are 20 you aware of the penalties for violating the 21 pledging rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and 22 upon conviction the violator must be fined not more 23 than a thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than 24 90 days? 25 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes, ma'am. 0026 1 MS. ANDERSON: The Upstate Citizens 2 Committee has found Judge Johnson well qualified in 3 each of the nine evaluative criteria. 4 I would like to note for the record 5 that any concerns raised during the investigation 6 regarding Judge Johnson were incorporated into the 7 questioning of him today. 8 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 9 questions. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 11 Any member of the Commission have a 12 question? The senator from Lexington. 13 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you for serving, 14 Judge. 15 JUDGE JOHNSON: Thank you. 16 SENATOR KNOTTS: I'm going to ask you 17 just an overall question. 18 How do you handle dead beat dad cases 19 as far as a person who owes -- law enforcement has 20 went out and looked for for years and they finally 21 bring him into court and maybe they're from another 22 state or something and they owe something like 23 $30,000 in child support back payment? How -- what 24 is your -- 25 JUDGE JOHNSON: Well, they generally, 0027 1 sir, go to jail unless they can purge themselves by 2 paying a significant amount of that money or at 3 least some portion of that money. 4 SENATOR KNOTTS: Okay. If -- for 5 instance, do you ever vacate or turn into a civil 6 judgment the -- the amount owed? 7 JUDGE JOHNSON: I have never done that. 8 SENATOR KNOTTS: Do judges -- do you 9 feel that Family Court judges has that authority to 10 do that? 11 JUDGE JOHNSON: No, sir. 12 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you. 13 JUDGE JOHNSON: I do not believe that 14 they have authority to do that. 15 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 17 questions? 18 Representative Delleney. 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Judge, I 20 understand you don't think you have the authority 21 to vacate that amount, and I agree with you. But 22 do you think you have the authority to reduce that 23 to a civil judgment to -- 24 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes, the judge can 25 reduce the child support to a civil judgment so 0028 1 that it's recorded as a judgment, you're correct. 2 And whether we can do away with the arrears, no, I 3 think the mother would have to -- or the father 4 would have to bring an action and show some legal 5 reason that you do away with it. 6 But, yes, we can reduce that amount to 7 a legal judgment. We can do that to make it more 8 collectible, for example, if they have an estate 9 and the -- then the judgment -- it's a claim 10 against the estate. If they go out and try to 11 borrow money, it would be like a mortgage against 12 the property. Yes, we can, and I have done that. 13 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: And they can 14 take that judgment to another state? 15 JUDGE JOHNSON: That's correct. 16 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Collect it 17 there? 18 JUDGE JOHNSON: That's correct. 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Do you -- I'm 20 just asking, do you do that -- can you do that on 21 your own motion or would that require the person 22 that was owed the money to -- to bring some action 23 to reduce it to civil judgment? 24 JUDGE JOHNSON: It would be -- it's my 25 opinion it would be incumbent upon the person who 0029 1 wants that judgment done to do that. I don't 2 believe it's proper for me to just go out and start 3 saying this is going to be a judgment. And I don't 4 do that. 5 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: My other 6 question -- I'm just asking. 7 JUDGE JOHNSON: Okay. 8 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: If someone 9 comes in with a $30,000 arrearage and -- and say 10 the children are grown and this money has been owed 11 for quite some time and there's nobody in the 12 courtroom -- you know, like the ex-wife or whatever 13 is not in the courtroom or the mother or whoever 14 and you -- for instance, you find out the person is 15 working but doesn't have a very good job and they 16 tell you they're able to pay $2,500 of that $30,000 17 judgment. Do you ever allow them to purge 18 themselves by paying the 25 -- say the $2,500 and 19 then the Court not chase them down anymore or woo 20 them in again for the arrearage? How does that 21 work? 22 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes, I believe it's 23 quite proper. If they owe, let's say, $30,000, and 24 they've been irresponsible and on the run for 20 25 years -- it happens all the time. It generally 0030 1 doesn't -- I don't see those amounts that often, 2 but generally, let's say, ten to 12 I probably see 3 more often in that area. 4 And they come back and the family helps 5 get them a job and let's say they get them a job at 6 the local textile plant making $8 an hour. The 7 family helps come up with three or $4,000 on this 8 arrearage, and they say, "Look, I can pay $3,000 on 9 the 12th and I'll pay -- it's an arrears only 10 account. We'll pay the arrears at 50, 60, $70 a 11 week. Would you accept that?" 12 Yes. Probably most of the time I would 13 accept that with this provision. I would give them 14 a six-month sentence for contempt of court, suspend 15 that on them paying the $3,000 and making those 50 16 or $60 payments so that if they miss two payments 17 in the future, a bench warrant has been issued and 18 they go back to the original sentence, and that 19 would be purged the full -- you know, the full 20 amount of whatever the Court used. 21 And, so, yes, we do that, and it's a 22 way to enforce and get payment, and we have a 23 number of people that pay who we've done that for. 24 Now, there are people, though, that -- that we've 25 had to go get in an airplane out of state that owe 0031 1 40 or $50,000 and you're not going to do anything. 2 I mean, that kind of case, you know, you generally 3 would look at the maximum sentence, and the purge 4 amount would be a great portion of that money. And 5 it depends on each set of facts. 6 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: And you can't 7 put them in jail for more than one year anyway, can 8 you? 9 JUDGE JOHNSON: The most that we can 10 sentence them on is one year, and that is with the 11 ability to purge or get out. And if they get good 12 time credit, they can be out in nine months. If 13 they earn work credit, they can be out in six 14 months. 15 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: And then you 16 got to chase them down again. 17 JUDGE JOHNSON: One thing we got in 18 Pickens County that we started is a work release 19 program. I was after the county for a good while 20 to do it, and finally they said we're going to do 21 it. And before the economy tanked -- and we know 22 how it is now, but before then I want to tell y'all 23 that within I believe four years we had collected 24 in Pickens County a half a million dollars in child 25 support. And what does that mean? We keep them in 0032 1 jail at night and on the weekend and they work 2 during the day and they take most of their check to 3 pay on their child support. 4 And -- and when times were good, the 5 work release coordinator actually goes out and 6 finds work for these individuals. Now, amazingly a 7 lot of them, you know, they won't even work when 8 they are handed the job. But a lot of them not 9 only did they work, they brought their child 10 support down. Believe it or not, when they 11 finished, their employer gave them a job, including 12 two of the finest construction workers -- or heavy 13 equipment operators we got right now in Pickens 14 County started through our work release program. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. I've 16 got -- Senator Knotts. 17 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you. 18 Judge, do you find it amazing that once 19 you -- once you sentence somebody to -- to jail 20 that owes back child support, do you find it 21 amazing they somehow -- a lot of them will find 22 that money to get out? They'll find the bank 23 account somewhere? 24 JUDGE JOHNSON: Oftentimes they say 25 they don't have it -- 0033 1 SENATOR KNOTTS: It's amazing, isn't 2 it. 3 JUDGE JOHNSON: I've had them in 4 court -- this has happened dozens of times. I've 5 sentenced them -- let's say they owe $1,500, 6 $1,800. They -- they don't have a dime. They 7 can't pay it, or whatever. Okay. Six months. You 8 can get out by paying what you owe, $50 court 9 costs, whatever. Before the deputy can put the 10 handcuffs on, "Wait a minute. I've got the money," 11 and they've got it in their pocket right then. So, 12 yes -- 13 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: It's a miracle. 14 JUDGE JOHNSON: It is. What they 15 wanted to see is if I was going to make them spend 16 the money. 17 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you, Judge. 18 JUDGE JOHNSON: But it happens. Yes. 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: Representative 20 Clemmons. 21 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Thank you, 22 Mr. Chairman. 23 Judge Johnson, I -- I just wanted to 24 compliment you on your -- the way you handled that 25 bench and bar survey result. It -- it certainly 0034 1 speaks to your demeanor and temperament that you 2 would take that as -- as constructive criticism 3 that you incorporate into your future demeanor. 4 Demeanor is so important to us in the courtroom. 5 It's important to the delivery of 6 justice, and I encourage you to -- to continue 7 maintaining that kind of temperament and demeanor, 8 not just towards the litigants, but also towards 9 their attorneys. 10 JUDGE JOHNSON: Yes. Thank you. 11 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Thank you 12 very much. Thank you for your service to South 13 Carolina. 14 JUDGE JOHNSON: I appreciate that. 15 Thank you. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Anything else? 17 Just to reiterate too, the Citizens 18 Committee just gave you a wonderful rating. 19 JUDGE JOHNSON: Thank you. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: And it's 21 well-earned. 22 Thank you for your service, and this 23 concludes this portion of our screening process. 24 As you know, our record remains open until a report 25 is published, so technically you can be called back 0035 1 at any time. I don't know of any outstanding 2 questions. 3 Remind you of the 48-hour rule. Ask 4 that you to be mindful of that. If you know of 5 anyone that inquires whether they may or may not 6 advocate for you in the event that you're screened 7 out, that you just remind them of the 48-hour rule. 8 With that, we thank you again for your 9 service to the people of South Carolina and have a 10 great day. 11 JUDGE JOHNSON: I appreciate the 12 opportunity to be here. Thank you. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 14 JUDGE JOHNSON: Y'all have a good day. 15 (Candidate excused.) 16 (Off the record.) 17 JUDGE FENDER: Good morning. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good morning. How 19 are you? 20 JUDGE FENDER: I'm good. How are 21 y'all? 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good. We'll go 23 back on the record at this point. 24 And we have before us The Honorable 25 Jane Dowling Fender who is a retired judge for the 0036 1 Family Court. 2 If you would, raise your right hand, 3 please, ma'am. 4 (Candidate sworn.) 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 6 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 7 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 8 the bench. Our inquires focused on our nine 9 evaluative criteria. This included a survey of the 10 bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 11 application materials, verification of your 12 compliance with state ethics laws, the search of 13 newspaper articles in which your name appears, the 14 study of the previous screenings, and a check for 15 economic conflicts of interest. 16 We received no affidavits filed in 17 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 18 present to testify. 19 So I'd ask you if you have any brief 20 opening statement you might wish to make. Purely 21 optional. I'm going to turn you over to counsel 22 for a few questions and we'll see if any 23 commissioners have any questions. 24 JUDGE FENDER: Okay. No opening 25 statement. 0037 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Please 2 answer staff counsel's questions. 3 MS. SHULER: Good morning, Judge 4 Fender. 5 JUDGE FENDER: Morning, Ms. Shuler. 6 MS. SHULER: I would like to note for 7 the Commission that Judge Fender is a retired 8 judge. We have ten retired judges that we are 9 screening at this time. And staff actually goes 10 and observes them a day in the courtroom where they 11 are serving. So I spent a day in Allendale County 12 Family Court in August observing her handle 13 everything from DSS cases, a vulnerable adult case, 14 to child support, and a restraining order by the 15 wife against her husband for domestic abuse. So I 16 was able to observe Judge Fender on the bench. 17 Judge Fender, I have a few procedural 18 matters that I need to handle with you. 19 You have before you your personal data 20 questionnaire that you submitted as part of your 21 question -- 22 JUDGE FENDER: Uh-huh. 23 MS. SHULER: -- as part of your 24 application. Are there any amendments at this time 25 you would like to make to your PDQ? 0038 1 JUDGE FENDER: Not that I know of. 2 MS. SHULER: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 3 that Judge Fender's PDQ be offered as an exhibit 4 into the record. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 6 so ordered. 7 (EXH. 5, Personal Data Questionnaire of 8 Jane Dowling Fender, admitted.) 9 MS. SHULER: Judge Fender, you also 10 have before you the sworn statement. You provided 11 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 12 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 13 administration, and temperament. Are there any 14 additional amendments that you would like to offer 15 to your sworn statement? 16 JUDGE FENDER: No, ma'am. 17 MS. SHULER: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 18 that Judge Fender's sworn statement be made an 19 exhibit into the hearing record. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 21 so ordered. 22 (EXH. 6, Sworn Statement of Jane 23 Dowling Fender, admitted.) 24 JUDGE FENDER: Thank you. 25 MS. SHULER: Judge Fender, this is your 0039 1 first screening for initial appointment as a 2 retired Family Court judge. You retired in 2007. 3 Could you explain to the Commission why you want to 4 continue serving as a retired Family Court judge. 5 JUDGE FENDER: Certainly. As you know, 6 we're really short on judges at this point in time, 7 and in Family Court the caseload is very, very 8 high. So I figured if I stayed a retired judge, 9 then if somebody got sick or for some reason 10 couldn't serve one or two days or a week or 11 something, they could call on me instead of just 12 cancelling court and making all those litigants 13 have to go to the end of the line to get -- to get 14 back into court. That's what I would like to do. 15 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Judge Fender. 16 Would you explain to the Commission 17 what you think is the appropriate demeanor for a 18 judge. 19 JUDGE FENDER: Oh, goodness. You have 20 to be thoughtful and treat people like you want to 21 be treated and listen to them, give everybody a 22 fair shot and let them present their case to the 23 best of their knowledge or their lawyer's 24 knowledge, and think about what you're doing and 25 think about that it's a family you're dealing with 0040 1 and not just that one person in front of you, that 2 they've got more people behind them that you're 3 having to deal with every aspect of their lives in 4 just a few minutes, and I -- I try do that in every 5 case that comes in front of me. 6 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Judge Fender. 7 What is your general philosophy 8 regarding granting continuances for pro se 9 litigants that appear before you in Family Court? 10 JUDGE FENDER: I try to treat pro ses 11 just like I would treat anybody else, and if 12 they've got a valid reason for the continuance, 13 then I will certainly grant the continuance. If 14 they've had ample time to get an attorney and just 15 have chosen not to, I'm likely not to grant a 16 continuance because I wouldn't do that if they had 17 an attorney representing them. I treat them just 18 like everybody else. 19 Like I would like to be treated too. I 20 mean, you know, I try to do it in a very 21 thoughtful, nice way. I don't yell at them or 22 anything. I've heard -- apparently some judges 23 yell at pro se defendants -- or litigants. They're 24 trying to call them something else now. 25 Self-represented litigants is the new -- I think 0041 1 the new term for that that we got at the judicial 2 conference instead of pro se. 3 MS. SHULER: All right. 4 JUDGE FENDER: SRS. 5 MS. SHULER: Self-represented 6 litigants. 7 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 8 MS. SHULER: All right. Thank you, 9 Judge Fender. 10 Have you sought or received the pledge 11 of any legislator prior to this date? 12 JUDGE FENDER: No. 13 MS. SHULER: Have you sought or been 14 offered a conditional pledge of support of any 15 legislator? 16 JUDGE FENDER: No. 17 MS. SHULER: Have you asked any third 18 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 19 on your behalf? 20 JUDGE FENDER: No. 21 MS. SHULER: Have you contacted any 22 members of the Commission? 23 JUDGE FENDER: No. 24 MS. SHULER: Do you understand -- 25 JUDGE FENDER: Wait a minute. This 0042 1 Commission? 2 MS. SHULER: Yes. 3 JUDGE FENDER: No. 4 MS. SHULER: Yes, ma'am. 5 Do you understand that you're 6 prohibited from seeking any commitment concerning 7 your reappointment or initial appointment as a 8 Family Court -- 9 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 10 MS. SHULER: -- Family Court judge? 11 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 12 MS. SHULER: And have you reviewed the 13 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 14 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 15 MS. SHULER: Are you familiar with the 16 penalties, that is, it's a misdemeanor and you 17 could be fined not more than a thousand dollars or 18 imprisoned not more than 90 days? 19 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 20 MS. SHULER: I would like to note that 21 the Lowcountry Citizens Committee found that Judge 22 Fender is well qualified for each of the nine 23 evaluative criteria: Constitutional 24 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 25 academic ability, character, reputation, physical 0043 1 health, mental stability, experience, and judicial 2 temperament. 3 And I would just note for the record 4 that any concerns regarding this candidate were 5 covered in the investigation of this candidate and 6 incorporated into her questioning today. 7 And, Mr. Chairman, I have no further 8 questions for Judge Fender. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Does 10 any member of the Commission have a question? 11 JUDGE FENDER: Yes. 12 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Judge Fender, I 13 want to thank you for your service, and by all 14 accounts you're an excellent judge, but something 15 you said raised a concern with me. And you talked 16 about some judges who will yell at pro se 17 litigants. Do you have any names to offer? 18 JUDGE FENDER: I just have heard that 19 just, you know, when we're talking at the judicial 20 conferences that somebody has brought that up. But 21 I don't know -- I've never heard that and I don't 22 know anybody that actually has. 23 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: And the reason I 24 ask the question is that because judicial 25 temperament or demeanor and courtesy to litigants 0044 1 and lawyers is extremely important to us on the 2 Commission. 3 JUDGE FENDER: Absolutely, yes, sir. 4 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: And I would ask you 5 that if you -- if you encounter that or know of 6 that, to either notify our staff or Office of 7 Disciplinary -- 8 JUDGE FENDER: I believe I have an 9 obligation if I know -- if I have personal 10 knowledge of it, yes, sir. 11 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Fair enough. 12 Great. Thank you. 13 JUDGE FENDER: Anything else? 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 15 commissioner? 16 Well, that concludes -- 17 JUDGE FENDER: Thank you. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: -- this part of the 19 screening process. 20 As you know, the record will remain 21 open till the report is published, but I do not 22 expect there to be any outstanding issues. And 23 beyond that, we would thank you for your prior 24 service -- 25 JUDGE FENDER: Thank you. 0045 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: -- and your 2 willingness to serve the people of South Carolina. 3 JUDGE FENDER: Thank you. And I 4 appreciate y'all's service too, and thank you for 5 serving because y'all don't -- y'all are doing this 6 on your own time, I think. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: Well -- 8 JUDGE FENDER: I appreciate it. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: Well, the Citizens 10 Committee, I'm going to tell you they gave you a 11 wonderful rating. 12 JUDGE FENDER: Well, that was sweet of 13 them. I appreciate it. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Something you 15 earned. 16 JUDGE FENDER: I appreciate it. 17 Thanks. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 19 JUDGE FENDER: See you later. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thanks. 21 (Candidate excused.) 22 (Off the record.) 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 24 go back on the record at this point, and we have 25 before us Dennis M. Gmerek who is offering for 0046 1 Family Court, Second Circuit, Seat Number 1. 2 Good morning, sir. 3 MR. GMEREK: Good morning, 4 Mr. Chairman. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Before we swear you 6 in, do you have anybody that's with you today that 7 you may want to introduce to the Commission? 8 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir, Your Honor. 9 Ms. Kay Mixon who is the director of the Comby 10 Center or -- Domestic Violence Center in Aiken is 11 present and also Mr. Paul Bose who is the volunteer 12 coordinator for that center. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Glad to have y'all 14 with us this morning. 15 All right. If you would, raise your 16 right hand. 17 (Candidate sworn.) 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 19 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 20 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 21 the bench. Our inquires focused on our nine 22 evaluative criteria, and it has included a survey 23 of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 24 application materials, a verification of your 25 compliance with state ethics laws, a search of 0047 1 newspaper articles in which your name appears, and 2 a study of previous screenings, and a check for 3 economic conflicts of interest. 4 We received no affidavits filed in 5 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 6 present to testify. 7 I'd ask you if you have any brief 8 opening statement you wish to make. It's purely 9 optional. What we will do is turn you over to 10 counsel who has questions for you. At the 11 conclusion of those questions we'll see if any 12 commissioners have any questions. 13 MR. GMEREK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 I really don't have an opening statement to give 15 y'all. I appreciate this opportunity to come in 16 front of y'all and testify. I know y'all have a 17 very busy schedule, so I'm ready to answer any 18 questions y'all have. 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Thank 20 you. Please answer counsel's questions. 21 MR. FULMER: Mr. Chairman, members of 22 the Commission, I have a few procedural matters to 23 take up with Mr. Gmerek. 24 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. 25 MR. FULMER: Mr. Gmerek, you have 0048 1 before you your personal data questionnaire you 2 submitted as part of your application. Are there 3 any amendments that you'd like to make at this time 4 to your PDQ? 5 MR. GMEREK: I do not believe so, sir. 6 MR. FULMER: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 7 ask that Mr. Gmerek's personal data questionnaire 8 be entered into -- as an exhibit to the hearing 9 record. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 11 objection, so ordered. 12 (EXH. 7, Personal Data Questionnaire of 13 Mr. Dennis M. Gmerek, admitted.) 14 MR. FULMER: Mr. -- Mr. Gmerek, you 15 have before you the sworn statement you provided 16 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 17 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 18 qualifications, office administration, and 19 temperament. Are there any amendments that you'd 20 like to offer at this time to that sworn statement? 21 MR. GMEREK: No, sir. 22 MR. FULMER: Mr. Chairman, I'd also 23 like that document to be entered into evidence to 24 the hearing. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 0049 1 so ordered. 2 (EXH. 8, Sworn Statement of Dennis M. 3 Gmerek, admitted.) 4 MR. FULMER: One final procedural 5 matter. I note for the record that based on the 6 testimony contained in your PDQ which has been 7 offered into the record that you meet the statutory 8 requirements for this position regarding age, 9 residency, and years of practice. Is that correct? 10 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. 11 MR. FULMER: Mr. Gmerek, would you 12 please tell the Commission why you believe you 13 would now like to be a Family Court judge. 14 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, 15 member of the Commission, I think you can tell from 16 my professional history I have always been deeply 17 involved with the Family Court system and the 18 probate court system. Those -- those court systems 19 that really deal with people and family. I have 20 been at DSS now for 12 years prosecuting child 21 abuse and neglect and adult protective services 22 cases, and I feel that being a Family Court 23 judge -- I understand, you know, the importance of 24 my position at DSS, but I also understand the 25 importance that the Family Court judge plays in 0050 1 that procedure, and I think that's just the next 2 logical professional step for me to take. And I'm 3 very committed to serving the citizens in South 4 Carolina and especially the citizens in the Second 5 Judicial Circuit. 6 MR. FULMER: Mr. Gmerek, one thing I 7 skipped over. I wanted to make sure in terms of -- 8 just for purposes of the record, I wanted you to 9 specify the city and circuit of your residency. 10 MR. GMEREK: Yes. My mailing address 11 is Ridge Spring, South Carolina, but that is in 12 Aiken County. I am employed with the Aiken County 13 Department of Social Services providing legal 14 services for the Second Judicial Circuit. 15 MR. FULMER: Mr. Gmerek, can you 16 explain to the Commission how you feel your legal 17 and professional experience thus far will assist 18 you to be an effective judge. 19 MR. GMEREK: Well, when I was in 20 private practice, the first 12 years of my 21 professional life, you know, I obviously dealt with 22 a lot of Family Court cases, you know, the wide 23 gamut of -- of divorce, adoptions, also in the 24 probate court system. Obviously since I've been 25 with DSS, I specifically dealt with the issues as 0051 1 far as child abuse and neglect and adult protective 2 services. All those issues are -- are paramount as 3 far as the Family Court is concerned. 4 I've also developed a deep compassion 5 for individuals who are in a difficult situation, 6 and that's really what the Family Court mostly 7 deals with, families who are in crisis. 8 MR. FULMER: Are there any areas, 9 including subjective areas of law, where you will 10 need to -- additional preparation in order to serve 11 as a judge in Family Court? 12 MR. GMEREK: Maybe not additional 13 preparation, but obviously the past 12 years I've 14 been concentrating with child abuse and neglect 15 issues, obviously with the -- the test we all went 16 through -- all the candidates went through, I've 17 kind of got up-to-date now on alimony, child 18 support issues, divorce issues. 19 I think you can -- anybody can always 20 be more educated in those areas, so, you know, 21 that -- that probably -- I still need to get a 22 little bit more familiar with those areas, but I 23 think I've done a fairly decent job thus far. 24 MR. FULMER: Now, you address this in 25 your sworn affidavit, but I would ask that you 0052 1 explain to the members of the Commission what you 2 think is the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 3 MR. GMEREK: In -- in my mind and the 4 judges that I've been in front of that I've really 5 respected, most of the judges have been very -- I 6 don't want to say a calm influence, but, you know, 7 they presented very neutral demeanor. They're very 8 patient because sometimes, you know, it does get 9 very contentious in Family Court. They have to 10 maintain their sense of humor in -- in the Family 11 Court system, and they have to be impartial. 12 MR. FULMER: What would you like to be 13 your legacy as a judge in a Family Court? 14 MR. GMEREK: One of the things I would 15 like to concentrate on -- I think obviously because 16 of my background I have a specific interest in 17 child abuse and neglect issues, and the way we're 18 dealing with DSS cases in the Family Court system, 19 there are other models out there in other states 20 that may be more effective in dealing with those 21 issues as far as child abuse and neglect that may 22 help some of the backlog in the Family Court to 23 free up some time for the -- the private cases, but 24 that I think we should investigate them, and these 25 are internal changes of DSS that would cost no 0053 1 money. So I think we need to look at some of those 2 issues. 3 MR. FULMER: I'd ask you for any 4 suggestions you might offer the Commission in 5 reference to back -- you know, solving the backlog 6 of cases. 7 MR. GMEREK: What -- I'm sorry. Go 8 ahead. 9 MR. FULMER: No, that's all right. 10 MR. GMEREK: And I think one of the 11 important thing -- you know, once again looking 12 at -- if you look at how much time we spent on 13 agency issues in the Family Court system -- I'm 14 sure most of y'all are aware like in Aiken we have 15 four and a half days worth of court in -- in the 16 Family Court system. Two full days of that is 17 taken up with agency issues as far as DJJ cases, 18 child support, abuse and neglect cases. 19 If we can find alternative ways to deal 20 with some of those cases, that would free up more 21 time for the private cases, and, you know, once 22 again, I don't think it would cost any more 23 resources to change -- change some of our practices 24 in the child welfare process. 25 MR. FULMER: Mr. Gmerek, I have a few 0054 1 housekeeping issues. 2 MR. GMEREK: Yes. 3 MR. FULMER: Have you sought or 4 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 5 date? 6 MR. GMEREK: No, sir. 7 MR. FULMER: Have you sought or have 8 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 9 any legislator pending the outcome of your 10 screening? 11 MR. GMEREK: No, sir. 12 MR. FULMER: Have you asked any third 13 party to contact members of the General Assembly on 14 your behalf? 15 MR. GMEREK: No, sir. 16 MR. FULMER: Have you contacted any 17 members of the Commission? 18 MR. GMEREK: No, sir. 19 MR. FULMER: Okay. Do you understand 20 that you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 21 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 22 of the Commission's report? 23 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. 24 MR. FULMER: Have you reviewed the 25 Commission's guidelines for -- on pledging? 0055 1 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. 2 MR. FULMER: As follow-up, you're aware 3 of the penalties for violating the pledging rules, 4 that is, it is a misdemeanor; upon conviction you 5 as a violator would be subject to -- of no more 6 than a thousand dollar fine and imprisonment of no 7 more than 90 days? 8 MR. GMEREK: Yes, sir. 9 MR. FULMER: I would like to next read 10 into the record the report of the candidate's 11 Committee -- Midlands Citizens Committee. 12 "Mr. Gmerek was found well qualified in 13 each of the evaluative criteria: Constitutional 14 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 15 academic ability, character, reputation, physical 16 health, mental stability, experience and judicial 17 temperament." They also reported, and I'll quote, 18 The Committee was very impressed by Mr. Gmerek. He 19 was very -- we were very impressed by his humility 20 and his -- his obvious commitment to public 21 service. We believe he is most eminently qualified 22 to be a Family Court judge, end quote. 23 Are there any further questions? 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Does 25 any member of the Commission have any questions? 0056 1 SENATOR KNOTTS: Mr. Chairman. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 3 Lexington. 4 SENATOR KNOTTS: Mr. Gmerek, whenever 5 you worked for Richland County, who was the county 6 attorney at the time? Was it Bill Able? 7 MR. GMEREK: It -- it was Bill Able 8 when -- because I was a law clerk there, and I'm -- 9 I can't remember whether Mr. Pleicones was the 10 attorney at that point, but then Mr. Able came in. 11 SENATOR KNOTTS: Thank you. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 13 This then completes this portion of our 14 screening process. As you know, the record will 15 remain open until the report is published, and you 16 could be called back at such time as the need 17 arises. That's not to indicate there's any 18 outstanding issues. 19 Also need to remind you of the 48-hour 20 rule, and ask you to be mindful of that, in fact, 21 so mindful that if anyone inquires with you about 22 whether they may or may not advocate for you in the 23 event that you are screened out of this Committee 24 that you will remind them of the 48-hour rule. 25 With that, we thank you for offering -- 0057 1 MR. GMEREK: Thank you. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: -- and wish you 3 have a good day. 4 MR. GMEREK: Y'all have a pleasant day. 5 I know it's very busy. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Yes, it will be a 7 long one. Thank you. 8 (Candidate excused.) 9 (Off the record.) 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 11 go back on the record at this point. 12 We have before us Ms. Vicki Johnson 13 Snelgrove who is offering for the Family Court, 14 Second Circuit, Seat Number 1. 15 Good morning. 16 MS. SNELGROVE: Good morning. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Before I start and 18 swear you in, do you have any guests that you wish 19 to introduce to the Commission? 20 MS. SNELGROVE: Well certainly. My 21 husband Von Snelgrove and my friend Kay Mixon who I 22 believe was with Dennis also. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: We're glad to have 24 both of you with us this morning. 25 With that, if you would, please raise 0058 1 your right hand. 2 (Candidate sworn.) 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 4 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 5 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquiries 6 focused on our nine evaluative criteria and has 7 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 8 thorough study of your application materials, a 9 verification of your compliance with state ethics 10 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 11 name appears, a study of previous screenings, and a 12 check for economic conflicts of interest. 13 We have received no affidavits filed in 14 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 15 present to testify. 16 So I'd ask you if you have any brief 17 opening statements you wish to make to this 18 Commission. It's purely optional, but the 19 procedure is that we'll turn you over to staff 20 counsel who have questions for you. At the 21 conclusion of that, see if the commissioners have 22 anything and it will wrap -- we'll wrap up the 23 hearing. 24 MS. SNELGROVE: I decline to make any 25 opening statement. 0059 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Then 2 please answer counsel's questions. 3 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, sir. 4 MS. COOMBS: Mr. Chairman and members 5 of the Commission, I just have a few procedural 6 matters to take care of with Ms. Snelgrove. 7 Ms. Snelgrove, you have before you your 8 personal data questionnaire that you submitted as 9 part of your application? 10 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, ma'am. 11 MS. COOMBS: Do you have any amendments 12 that you'd like to make today? 13 MS. SNELGROVE: No, ma'am. 14 MS. COOMBS: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 15 that Ms. Snelgrove's personal data questionnaire be 16 entered as the next hearing exhibit. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 18 so ordered. 19 (EXH. 9, Personal Data Questionnaire of 20 Ms. Vicki Johnson Snelgrove, admitted.) 21 MS. COOMBS: Ms. Snelgrove, you also 22 have before you a sworn statement that you 23 submitted with your application with detailed 24 answers to over 30 questions regarding judicial 25 conduct, statutory qualifications, office 0060 1 administration, and temperament. Do you have any 2 amendments you'd like to make to that sworn 3 statement? 4 MS. SNELGROVE: No, ma'am. 5 MS. COOMBS: Mr. Chairman, I would like 6 to ask that Ms. Snelgrove's sworn statement be 7 entered as the next hearing exhibit. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 9 so ordered. 10 (EXH. 10, Sworn Statement of Vicki 11 Johnson Snelgrove, admitted.) 12 MS. COOMBS: And finally I would like 13 to note for the record that based on the testimony 14 contained in the candidate's PDQ which has been 15 included in the record with Ms. Snelgrove's consent 16 that she meets the statutory requirements for this 17 position regarding age, residence and years of 18 practice. 19 Ms. Snelgrove, would you please state 20 your home address, including the city and circuit. 21 MS. SNELGROVE: 530 West Road, Aiken, 22 South Carolina, Second Judicial Circuit. 23 MS. COOMBS: Why do you now want to 24 serve as a Family Court judge? 25 MS. SNELGROVE: I have thought about it 0061 1 for a long time, and with Judge Ness's retirement, 2 I want the vacancy to be filled by somebody who 3 understands the family law practice, who 4 understands the dynamics of families, who 5 understands what clients and litigants go through, 6 understands what lawyers go through, and understand 7 the rules and understand the procedure and brings a 8 long history of knowledge into that courtroom to 9 better -- to better enable that person, and I want 10 to try cases in front of a judge like that, and I 11 think I can be the judge like that. 12 MS. COOMBS: Can you explain in more 13 detail to the Commission how you feel your legal 14 and professional experience will assist you in 15 being an effective judge. 16 MS. SNELGROVE: I've tried Family Court 17 cases for 27 years. I've devoted the great 18 majority of my practice to being in that courtroom 19 with those situations. I've tried -- I've 20 represented moms. I've represented dads. I've 21 represented grandparents. I've represented 22 children, brothers, aunts, uncles. I've 23 represented persons accused of wrongdoings. I've 24 represented persons accusing others of wrongdoing. 25 I believe I can bring the gamut of what 0062 1 I've done into that courtroom. Unlike in Circuit 2 Court where someone may have just a plaintiff's 3 practice or just a defense practice, in Family 4 Court we represent anybody. So any -- when you 5 have a long -- or a lot of your experience in that 6 world, you bring to the bench the perspective of 7 most everybody that could come into your courtroom 8 which I think is very important to I understand. 9 Inevitably when we represent somebody 10 there's no -- I've never had one yet that some 11 person was completely not at fault and this person 12 was completely at fault, and then you understand 13 the dynamics of -- of these families and what 14 brings them here. I mean, two years ago they 15 couldn't wait to get home and see each other, and 16 today they would throw daggers at each other if 17 they could. 18 So I think I bring the wealth of 19 working with those people and working with their 20 situations and coming from their world to bring 21 them in to better enable them to hopefully find 22 good solutions in getting them through that -- that 23 threshold. 24 MS. COOMBS: Are there any areas, 25 including substantive areas of the law, that you 0063 1 would need additional preparation in order to serve 2 as the Family Court judge, and if so, how would you 3 handle that additional preparation? 4 MS. SNELGROVE: I feel it would be the 5 Department of Juvenile Justice and the juvenile 6 law. I did very few cases when I was first 7 practicing and haven't done any since then. I've 8 limited my family practice to the Family Court and 9 not criminal defense which I believe that falls 10 more under criminal defense world. 11 But I have -- even since then I talked 12 with the assistant solicitor in our circuit who is 13 assigned to the juvenile cases and have talked with 14 her about the procedures and the policies and the 15 methods of going through. I would certainly talk 16 with those in the public defender's office who 17 spend a lot of time in that world, and also I would 18 certainly observe, as many of those days as I 19 possibly could, the trials and the procedures of 20 going through and commitments and that sort of 21 thing. 22 MS. COOMBS: Ms. Snelgrove, although 23 you address this in your sworn affidavit, could you 24 please explain to the Commission what you think is 25 the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 0064 1 MS. SNELGROVE: Calmness is the first 2 thing I think of, somebody who is not easily 3 angered or easily upset. Patience, firmness, the 4 ability to let persons know this is -- this is the 5 courtroom in which we serve and these are the rules 6 and this is how we're going to behave. A general 7 good basic knowledge of the law -- of the 8 substantive law, of the procedure of evidentiary 9 law. 10 The ability to keep an open mind when 11 you've only heard the first side of the case, when 12 you've only heard one person testify, not to start 13 forming the opinion either against or for a certain 14 situation. 15 The ability to once I've heard the case 16 to make a decision within a reasonable amount of 17 time. Obviously that's subjective as to what 18 reasonable is, but to render an opinion in 19 sufficient pace that facts are not forgotten and 20 evidence is not stale, and when rendering an 21 opinion and giving the judge the findings or the 22 ruling, to make specific findings of why I ruled in 23 that fashion. Custody to mom, this is the findings 24 I want to you make, and so and so. 25 I think judges give me those, and I've 0065 1 had judges give very general. It's invaluable when 2 judges really let you know what's going on in their 3 head when they're -- when you're wanting to do an 4 order. 5 MS. COOMBS: What suggestions would you 6 offer for improving the backlog of cases on the 7 docket in Family Court? 8 MS. SNELGROVE: Good, effective 9 pretrial hearings. Effective pretrial hearings, 10 not just conducting them, but somebody that can run 11 it and -- and get people together. Starting on 12 time. Something as simple as start -- say we're 13 going to start at 9:00. We need to be in there at 14 9:00 and we need to be starting at 9:00. Letting 15 others know -- lawyers and litigants know we're 16 going to start on time. I think those are the two 17 main things that we can do. 18 Encourage settlements, so -- and I 19 would use pretrials in that fashion to -- there are 20 some attorneys who can do an excellent job of 21 getting together before trial in efforts to settle. 22 There are some attorneys who don't seem to see that 23 urgency. And then sometimes just putting two 24 people in a room. I would like to have mediation 25 mandatory in every county, not just the pilot 0066 1 counties. I think that would be a tremendous 2 effect. Sometimes if you just get people in the 3 room and if they're ready to go, they'll -- you 4 know, they can get a case settled. 5 MS. COOMBS: If you are nominated by 6 this Commission and elected by the General 7 Assembly, what would you want your legacy to be as 8 a Family Court judge? 9 MS. SNELGROVE: Someone who is open 10 minded and could listen and process and had some 11 empathy to understand what's going in that 12 courtroom and what -- what brought those people 13 there into that courtroom. 14 MS. COOMBS: Mr. Chairman, I have some 15 questions of a confidential and personal nature 16 that I believe would be appropriate for executive 17 session. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Is 19 there any objection to going into executive session 20 to receive that information? 21 Let the record show that every single 22 commissioner has approved the executive session. 23 And we will go in executive session. We shouldn't 24 be long. Y'all just step outside briefly. 25 Sergeant, please seal the chamber. 0067 1 (The members went executive session at 2 10:49 a.m.) 3 * * * * * 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0073 1 (The members returned to open session 2 at 10:55 a.m.) 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: Let the sergeant 4 know -- publish in the halls that we are in open 5 session. 6 All right. We'll go back on the 7 record. 8 MS. COOMBS: Ms. Snelgrove, I just have 9 a few housekeeping questions. Have you sought or 10 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 11 date? 12 MS. SNELGROVE: No, ma'am. 13 MS. COOMBS: Have you sought or have 14 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 15 any legislator pending the outcome of your 16 screening? 17 MS. SNELGROVE: No, ma'am. 18 MS. COOMBS: Have you asked any third 19 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 20 on your behalf? 21 MS. SNELGROVE: Only to introduce me 22 to -- to people, uh-huh. 23 MS. COOMBS: Have you contacted any 24 members of this Commission? 25 MS. SNELGROVE: No, ma'am. 0074 1 MS. COOMBS: Do you understand that 2 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 3 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 4 of the Commission's report? 5 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, ma'am. 6 MS. COOMBS: Have you reviewed the 7 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 8 MS. SNELGROVE: I have, yes, ma'am. 9 MS. COOMBS: And are you aware of the 10 penalties for violating the pledging rules, that 11 is, it is a misdemeanor and upon conviction the 12 violator must be fined not more than a thousand 13 dollars or imprisoned for more than 90 days? 14 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, ma'am. I read 15 that. 16 MS. COOMBS: Mr. Chairman and members 17 of the Commission, I would note that the Midlands 18 Citizens Committee found that Ms. Snelgrove was 19 well qualified for each of the nine evaluative 20 criteria, and the Committee provided the following 21 summary statement. Quote, The Committee was very 22 impressed by Ms. Snelgrove in every respect. With 23 25 years of experience as a family law attorney, we 24 believe she is very eminently qualified to be a 25 judge on the Family Court, end quote. 0075 1 And I would just note for the record 2 that any concerns raised during the investigation 3 regarding Ms. Snelgrove were incorporated into the 4 questioning of Ms. Snelgrove today. 5 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 6 questions. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Does 8 any member of the Commission have a question? 9 I would just say that the report from 10 the Citizens Committee was very important to me. 11 Excellent report. 12 MS. SNELGROVE: Thank you. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, that 14 will conclude this stage of the screening process. 15 As you know, the record will remain open until the 16 report is published, and you may be called back at 17 such time as the need arises. That's not to 18 indicate there's any outstanding matter there. 19 It's just our policy. 20 Also want to remind you of the 48-hour 21 rule again and ask you to be mindful of that, so 22 mindful that in fact if someone inquires with you 23 about whether they may or may not advocate for you 24 in the event you're screened out of this Committee, 25 that you remind them of the 48-hour rule for us, 0076 1 please. 2 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, sir. 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: And I want to again 4 thank you on behalf of this Commission for offering 5 for this position, and you're free to go and have a 6 fine day. 7 MS. SNELGROVE: Thank you. 8 (Candidate excused.) 9 (Off the record.) 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: We are to the end 11 of this seat. There are -- do y'all want to stop 12 and clean up the docket real quick, so to speak? 13 All right. Is there any -- do y'all 14 feel a need -- let me ask this before we even get 15 around, does anybody want to go into executive 16 session and discuss anything? 17 All right. First we'll start then with 18 qualification nomination on the Honorable Steven H. 19 John. 20 We're going to pass your voting sheets 21 around. 22 Do I have a motion? 23 MR. SELLERS: I move we find him 24 qualified. 25 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Second. 0077 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: The motion is to 2 find him qualified and nominated. Any discussion? 3 There being none, go to a vote. All in 4 favor please raise your right hand. Thank you. 5 Opposed by a like sign. Abstentions and proxies, 6 there are none. 7 Let the record show that the recorded 8 vote is every single member of the Commission. 9 All right. Moving next to The 10 Honorable Alvin D. Johnson. Any comments on him? 11 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Mr. Chairman. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Professor. 13 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: I was extremely 14 impressed. His -- his response to the legacy, what 15 kind of judge was the most touching and heartfelt, 16 to me, response we've ever had from anybody. Just 17 really classy guy and couldn't -- couldn't be 18 higher on there. 19 CHAIRMAN McCONNELL: I would agree. 20 One of the things that impressed me was his 21 positive attitude to any criticism, and -- and I 22 agree with you, the assessment of that -- that 23 statement of his, and we're just lucky in my 24 opinion to have him on the bench. 25 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Find him 0078 1 qualified and nominate him. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: The motion is to 3 find him qualified and nominated. Do I hear a 4 second? 5 SENATOR KNOTTS: Second. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 7 Lexington has seconded. 8 Any discussion? Is there any 9 discussion? There being none, we'll go to a vote. 10 All in favor, please raise your right 11 hand. Thank you. Opposed by a like sign. 12 Abstentions and proxies, there are none. 13 Let the record show that every single 14 member of the Commission voted him qualified and 15 nominated. 16 Moving next, the Family Court, retired, 17 The Honorable Jane Fender. 18 MS. SHULER: And let me just say for 19 retired judges Senator McConnell sends a letter to 20 the chief justice -- they're not voted by members 21 of the General Assembly -- saying that the 22 Commission finds them qualified for appointment or 23 reappointment on the bench. 24 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: So an 25 appropriate motion would be that we find her 0079 1 qualified? 2 MS. SHULER: Right. 3 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: I so move, 4 Mr. Chairman. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. The 6 motion is we find Judge Fender qualified to serve 7 as a retired judge -- retired judge. Do I hear a 8 second? 9 MR. SELLERS: Second. 10 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Second. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Seconded by 12 Mr. Sellers. 13 The floor is now open for any 14 discussion. Is there any discussion. 15 There being none, all in favor please 16 raise your right hand. Thank you. Opposed by a 17 like sign. Abstentions and proxies of which there 18 are none. 19 Let the record show that every single 20 member of this Commission voted to find Judge 21 Fender qualified. 22 We'll move now to Mr. Dennis Gmerek. 23 Any comments on Mr. Gmerek? 24 SENATOR KNOTTS: Mr. Chairman. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 0080 1 Lexington. 2 SENATOR KNOTTS: I remembered Dennis 3 Gmerek whenever he worked for the sol -- for the 4 county attorney's office in Richland County in 5 1985, '86, and he has not changed one bit from the 6 time he worked in that solicitor's -- I mean, that 7 attorney's office. We had a lot of dealings with 8 the attorney's office there at Richland County, and 9 he has all -- he -- I want to commend him on 10 maintaining his integrity and his ability to -- to 11 continue his work ethic, and I think he is an 12 exceptional choice. I'm just glad to have such a 13 candidate. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Any 15 other question -- statements on Mr. Gmerek? 16 All right. What is the pleasure of 17 the -- we just have -- what is it? Three -- two on 18 this side. 19 SENATOR KNOTTS: I make -- 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Let me 21 ask, are there any comments on Ms. Snelgrove? 22 MR. SELLERS: I was impressed with her 23 experience -- her background and experience in 24 Family Court. She seemed to have a good draw -- 25 range of applicable experience for the position 0081 1 she's seeking. 2 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: This is going to be 3 a real tough one for the legislature to pick of 4 those two. There are two excellent candidates, and 5 she brings a -- kind of a people oriented view and 6 experience that would be great on the bench. 7 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: She seems to 8 bring a wealth of experience and knowledge with her 9 in the candidacy. 10 SENATOR KNOTTS: We're going to get a 11 good judge out of this group. The state is going 12 to benefit. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: I notice in both 14 instances the Citizens Committee just didn't find 15 them well qualified, went on and had comments about 16 them, what a positive impression both of them made 17 before the Committee, and that was important to me. 18 SENATOR KNOTTS: I'd move that we move 19 to qualify them and nominate both -- both 20 candidates. 21 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Second. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Moved and seconded. 23 The floor is now open for any further 24 discussion. There being no discussion, move 25 immediately into a vote. 0082 1 All in favor of finding both qualified 2 and nominated, please raise your right hand. Thank 3 you. I do not need to call for the nays or the 4 abstentions. 5 Let the record show that every single 6 member of this Commission voted to qualify and 7 nominate the candidates. 8 All right. That gets us to the Fifth 9 Judicial Circuit. 10 (Off the record.) 11 (A recess transpired.) 12 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Good morning. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good morning. How 14 are you? 15 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I'm fine. 16 CHAIRMAN McCONNELL: We'll go back on 17 the record at this point. 18 We have before us The Honorable 19 DeAndrea Benjamin, Family Court, Fifth Circuit, 20 Seat Number 4. 21 And before I start, do you have anybody 22 with you you wish to introduce? 23 MS. SNELGROVE: Yes, sir. I do. I 24 have my husband here with me, Mr. Steve Benjamin. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: Delighted to have 0083 1 you with us. 2 MR. BENJAMIN: Thank you, sir. 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. If 4 you'd be so kind as to raise your right hand. 5 (Candidate sworn.) 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 7 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 8 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 9 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 10 evaluative criteria and has included a survey of 11 the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 12 application materials, a verification of your 13 compliance for state ethics laws, a search of 14 newspaper articles in which your name appears, a 15 study of previous screenings, and a check for 16 economic conflicts of interest. 17 We have received no affidavits filed in 18 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 19 present to testify. 20 I would ask you if there's any brief 21 opening statement you wish to make. Purely 22 optional. The procedure is the staff will ask you 23 some questions. At the conclusion of that we'll 24 see if the commissioners have any outstanding 25 issues that they need to ask you a question about, 0084 1 and then we'll wrap up the hearing. 2 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I do -- I do not have 3 an opening statement. I thank you all for being 4 here today and I'm happy to be here. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. Please 6 answer counsel's questions. 7 MR. DEASON: Mr. Chairman and members 8 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 9 to take care of with this candidate. 10 Ms. Benjamin, you have before you the 11 personal data questionnaire that you submitted as 12 part of your application and your amendment. Are 13 there any additional amendments that you'd like to 14 make at this time to your PDQ? 15 JUDGE BENJAMIN: No, sir, there aren't 16 additional amendments. 17 MR. DEASON: Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that 18 Ms. Benjamin's personal data questionnaire and 19 amendment be entered as an exhibit into the hearing 20 record. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 22 so ordered. 23 (EXH. 11, Personal Data Questionnaire 24 and Amendment of Mrs. DeAndrea Gist Benjamin, 25 admitted.) 0085 1 MR. DEASON: All right, Ms. Benjamin. 2 You should have before you the sworn statement that 3 you provided with detailed answers to over 30 4 questions regarding judicial conduct, statutory 5 qualifications, office administration, and 6 temperament. Are there any amendments that you'd 7 like to make at this time to that sworn statement? 8 JUDGE BENJAMIN: No, sir. 9 MR. DEASON: At this time, 10 Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that Ms. Benjamin's sworn 11 statement be entered as an exhibit into the hearing 12 record. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 14 so ordered. 15 (EXH. 12, Sworn Statement of DeAndrea 16 Gist Benjamin, admitted.) 17 MR. DEASON: All right. Although your 18 PDQ indicates that you meet the statutory 19 requirements for this position regarding age, 20 residence and years of practice, please state for 21 the record your official residency, including the 22 city and judicial circuit. 23 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I am in the Fifth 24 Judicial Circuit in the city of Columbia. My 25 official -- I guess my office is located at 4400 0086 1 North Main Street. My official residence is 5618 2 Columbia Drive, Columbia, South Carolina. 3 MR. DEASON: Thank you. 4 Could you please tell the Commission 5 why you now want to serve as a Family Court judge. 6 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I have practiced -- I 7 graduated from the University of South Carolina 8 School of Law in 1997, and upon finishing law 9 school, I practiced in the Family Court -- Family 10 Court as a juvenile prosecutor. While in law 11 school I was elected as a -- or selected by the 12 W. G. Kellogg Foundation and the University of 13 Michigan as a child welfare -- welfare law fellow 14 and had the opportunity to clerk for The Honorable 15 Bill Byars at the time. I believe that's when my 16 interest in Family Court and becoming a Family 17 Court judge probably began. 18 I have worked in all areas of the 19 Family Court. I've done DSS cases through my 20 fellowship with the Kellogg Foundation. I've 21 worked on the termination of parental right cases 22 when the state had a backlog. I clerked for the 23 general counsel's office of the Department of 24 Social Services. I also served on the juvenile 25 parole board. I was appointed by then Governor 0087 1 Hodges to serve on the parole board, served on 2 there for three years, and I was a vice chair for a 3 year prior to my becoming a municipal judge for the 4 city of Columbia. I had to resign from the board 5 because I couldn't hold dual offices at that time. 6 I've always had an interest in Family 7 Court. I've always had an interest in children's 8 issues. That is my passion. I -- and I've always 9 worked with children. I serve on boards here in 10 the city, on the children's museum board. I've 11 always had an interest in children. I have two 12 children now, but before I had children I've always 13 had an interest in children and family issues. 14 I practiced before the Family Court 15 here in Richland County and also in Lexington 16 County and sometimes in Kershaw County in doing 17 divorce work, child custody, child support matters. 18 And I think that I would make a great Family Court 19 judge. 20 MR. DEASON: Thank you. Although you 21 expressed it in your sworn affidavit, would you 22 please explain to the members of the Commission 23 what you think is the appropriate demeanor for a 24 judge. 25 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I -- I believe that a 0088 1 judge should be patient and of course always have a 2 good temperament. I -- we sometimes as lawyers and 3 sometimes -- and I sit on the city of Columbia 4 Municipal Court as a judge. We sometimes take for 5 granted that, you know, citizens and people are 6 familiar with the system and they are not. 7 Family Court is a court that, you know, 8 you will have people that come before you -- they 9 come before you in Family Court and you deal with 10 people in Family Court that have never been in a 11 courtroom before in their life, and I believe the 12 judge is the ambassador for the judicial system, 13 and their experience in Family Court will have a 14 life long impression as to their experience in the 15 judicial system. 16 So good temperament. I -- the same 17 things that I -- that my mom and my dad taught me, 18 you know, patience, be respectful to people, the 19 same things that I teach my children, I think 20 that's a good character of a judge. 21 MR. DEASON: Well, what suggestions can 22 you offer for improving the backlog of cases on the 23 Family Court docket? 24 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I think that the 25 Family Court docket backlog -- and here in Richland 0089 1 County I know some other counties -- also in 2 Greenville they're doing a -- backup cases because 3 most cases are scheduled where they're doing, you 4 know, A, B cases, so if the case that is scheduled 5 for a three-day trial falls off, you have a B case 6 or a C case that's backed up so we don't lose time. 7 Lawyers -- some lawyers are not exactly crazy about 8 the backup cases, but I do think that it is 9 effective. 10 Also I believe pre-trying cases. If 11 there are cases that can be resolved prior to, you 12 know, the week of trial or a couple of weeks before 13 trial, I believe in pre-trying cases to see if 14 there's something that -- you know, that the Court 15 can do in its discretion to help resolve cases. I 16 think those are -- those are the two things, but I 17 think in our county I know we're doing -- in 18 Richland County, our circuit, we're doing backup 19 cases, and that has proven to be pretty effective. 20 MR. DEASON: Okay. All right. I'm 21 going to ask you -- the next several questions just 22 relate to your candidacy. 23 Have you sought or received the pledge 24 of any legislator prior to this date? 25 JUDGE BENJAMIN: No, I have not. 0090 1 MR. DEASON: Have you sought or have 2 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 3 any legislator pending the outcome of this 4 screening? 5 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I have not. 6 MR. DEASON: Have you asked any third 7 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 8 on your behalf? 9 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I have not. 10 MR. DEASON: Have you contacted any 11 members of this Commission? 12 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I have not. 13 MR. DEASON: Do you understand that 14 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 15 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 16 of the Commission's report? 17 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I -- I understand 18 that. 19 MR. DEASON: Have you reviewed the 20 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 21 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Yes, I have. 22 MR. DEASON: And to follow up, are you 23 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 24 rules, that is, it's a misdemeanor and upon 25 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 0091 1 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 2 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Yes, I understand 3 that. 4 MR. DEASON: I would note that the 5 Midlands Citizen Committee reports that 6 Ms. Benjamin is highly ethical and considers her to 7 have outstanding professional and academic 8 abilities, and they rated her as well qualified in 9 all nine of the criteria they evaluate. 10 And, finally, I would note for the 11 record that any concerns raised during the 12 investigation regarding this candidate were 13 incorporated into the questioning of the candidate 14 today. 15 I have no further questions, 16 Mr. Chairman. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 18 Does any member of the Commission have 19 any questions at this point? The senator from 20 Lexington. 21 SENATOR KNOTTS: Ms. Benjamin -- 22 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Yes, sir. 23 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- I noticed in your 24 paperwork here that you both prosecuted and I guess 25 was in the Attorney General's Office for juveniles 0092 1 and defended juveniles in drug cases and stuff like 2 that. 3 JUDGE BENJAMIN: I've done -- when I 4 worked in the Solicitor's Office -- I worked in the 5 AG's office and also the Solicitor's Office, and in 6 the Solicitor's Office I handled juvenile 7 prosecution, and then at the Attorney General's 8 Office I prosecuted crimes against women and 9 children. And I also -- at that time that was when 10 the Sexually Violent Predator Act was enacted. I 11 also had a caseload of Sexually Violent Predator 12 cases where I -- where I handled those cases. 13 SENATOR KNOTTS: Okay. Thank you. 14 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Thank you. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. That 16 concludes this stage of the screening process. As 17 you know, the record will remain open until such 18 time as we make a final report and make it public. 19 And so that means if something should come up, we 20 might call you back, but there's nothing I know of 21 that is pending. 22 Need to remind you of the 48-hour rule 23 and ask you to be very mindful of that -- 24 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Yes, sir. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: -- so mindful that 0093 1 in fact if anyone inquires with you whether or not 2 they may advocate for you in the event that you're 3 screened out of this Committee, please remind them 4 of the 48-hour rule. 5 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Yes, sir. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, we thank 7 you for offering and have a nice day. 8 JUDGE BENJAMIN: Thank you all. 9 (Candidate excused.) 10 (Off the record.) 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 12 go back on the record at this point. 13 And we have before us Mr. Stevens B. 14 Elliott. 15 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you. Appreciate 16 you being here. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Good morning. 18 Yeah, I was looking to see what time. We've been 19 at this so long, but good morning. We're glad to 20 have you with us. 21 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you very much. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Before I start, do 23 you have some folks here with you you'd like to 24 introduce to the Commission? We'll stop and do 25 that. 0094 1 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you very much, 2 Senator. I would. First of all, my wife Pam is 3 seated here in the green sweater. Pam and I have 4 been married 37 years this past August. My oldest 5 son is on the far right. That's Christopher 6 Elliott. He's 35 and he practices law with me. My 7 next child is Reynolds. He's 28 and he practices 8 law with Bob McKenzie here in Columbia. And then 9 my daughter Molly, she's 26. I know she doesn't 10 look it, but she's 26. And she's in the clothing 11 industry and she's getting married in February. 12 And my son Reynolds is getting married in March, 13 and so we have a busy schedule ahead of us. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Sure do. But we're 15 glad to have all of y'all with us today. Thank 16 you. 17 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you. 18 CHAIRMAN McCONNELL: If you'd be so 19 kind as to raise your right hand. 20 (Candidate sworn.) 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 22 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 23 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquires 24 focused on our nine evaluative criteria and has 25 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 0095 1 thorough study of your application materials, a 2 verification of your compliance for state ethics 3 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 4 name appears, a study of previous screenings, and a 5 check for economic conflicts of interest. 6 We have received no affidavits filed in 7 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 8 present to testify. 9 I would ask you if you wish to make any 10 brief opening statement. It's purely optional. 11 The procedure is that we will have counsel ask you 12 some questions. At the conclusion of those 13 questions the Commission is free to ask any 14 questions they have, and we'll wrap up the hearing. 15 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you. Members of 16 the Committee, I'm Steve Elliott. I'm 57 years 17 old. As I stated, I've been married for 37 years. 18 I'm very proud of that. I have three wonderful 19 children. I served in the military three years. I 20 went to the University of South Carolina and the 21 University of South Carolina Law School. I've been 22 a practitioner in private practice for 28 years, 23 and during that time I've done primarily family 24 law. I feel I have vast experience in the family 25 law area. I've done just about every kind of -- I 0096 1 know I've done every kind of case there is in the 2 family law arena. 3 I've also done work at the Department 4 of Juvenile Justice. I represented over 20,000 5 juveniles in front of the parole board since 6 December of 1982. We do that monthly. I think I 7 have a keen awareness of the Juvenile Justice 8 system. I have vast experience in domestic courts. 9 I've gone to the Supreme Court and back, and have 10 had many, many trials in the domestic courts over 11 the 28 years. 12 I brought my family -- other than to 13 show them off because I'm very proud of them, but I 14 brought my family to let the Committee know that I 15 have experience in every stage of a marriage and I 16 know the importance of the decisions that Family 17 Court judges when they make a decision has on a 18 family. And I know how important things are to me 19 and my children, and I think it's important that a 20 judge have the experience and the maturity and 21 judgment and to know how it affects people when he 22 makes a decision. 23 And as I said, I'm very proud of my 24 family, and I brought them here to let you know 25 that I -- they weren't always grown. They were 0097 1 little at one time, and I had to work real hard, 2 paid my way through college, GI bill. So I know 3 how it is to be in that portion of marriage -- or 4 that part of marriage, and I know how it is to be 5 looking hopefully for grandchildren one day. 6 So I think that does make a difference, 7 and so I offer that to the Committee as -- as 8 judgment, experience and maturity as -- as my 9 qualifications. And I appreciate your 10 consideration. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 12 Please answer any questions our staff 13 counsel has for you. 14 MS. SHULER: Hello, Mr. Elliott. 15 MR. ELLIOTT: Hi. 16 MS. SHULER: I have a few procedural 17 matters to cover with this candidate. 18 Mr. Elliott, you have before you your 19 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 20 of your application and also your amendment to 21 question number 19. Are there any additional 22 amendments that you would like to make at this time 23 to your PDQ? 24 MR. ELLIOTT: Just the amendments that 25 I offered prior to today is the only amendments 0098 1 that I have. 2 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. 3 Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask that 4 Mr. Elliott's personal data questionnaire as well 5 as his amendments be entered as an exhibit into the 6 record. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 8 objection, so ordered. 9 (EXH. 13, Personal Data Questionnaire 10 and Amendment of Mr. Stevens B. Elliott, admitted.) 11 MS. SHULER: Mr. Elliott, you have 12 before you the sworn statement and an amendment you 13 provided with detailed answers to over 30 questions 14 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 15 qualifications, office administration, and 16 temperament. Are there any additional amendments 17 you would like to make at this time to your sworn 18 statement? 19 MR. ELLIOTT: I don't have any right 20 now. 21 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 22 At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would ask 23 that Mr. Elliott's sworn statement and previous 24 amendment be entered as an exhibit into the hearing 25 record. 0099 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 2 objection, so ordered. 3 (EXH. 14, Sworn Statement of Stevens 4 Bultman Elliott, admitted.) 5 MS. SHULER: One final procedural 6 matter. I note for the record that based on the 7 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ, 8 Mr. Elliott meets the statutory requirements for 9 this position regarding age, residence, and years 10 of practice. 11 Mr. Elliott, would you state for the 12 record the city -- just the city and circuit in 13 which you reside. 14 MR. ELLIOTT: I live in Forest Acres 15 which is of course right outside the city of 16 Columbia. I live in Richland County. I live in 17 the Fifth Judicial Circuit. 18 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 19 Mr. Elliott, you alluded to this in 20 your opening statement, but after practicing law 21 for 28 years, why do you now want to serve as a 22 Family Court judge. 23 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, I enjoyed my 24 private practice. I started practice a little late 25 because I was in the Army for three years. So I 0100 1 really started at about age 28, and I had a growing 2 family at the time. And when I started in Family 3 Court, my older brothers who are attorneys started 4 me off in Family Court, and I saw the importance of 5 the kind of decisions that the Family Court judges 6 were making. 7 And I always felt like that at some 8 point in my career that I wanted to do that 9 because -- primarily because of the experiences 10 I've had and the experience I had in the Family 11 Court arena. I think this is -- I'm at the point 12 in my life at 57 years old that I'm qualified and 13 capable to make those kind of decisions. I -- 14 probably 20 years ago I probably wasn't, but with 15 the experience that I've had, I think now is the 16 time for me to try it, if -- if everybody deems it 17 possible. I think I'd make a good judge. 18 I enjoy working with people and I enjoy 19 seeing people -- seeing people smile when they 20 leave Family Court. I know y'all think that's an 21 impossibility, but it isn't. And I think I could 22 come to some good conclusions if I have to 23 concerning families. That's basically it. And I 24 don't see myself -- you know, I don't know how long 25 I will work, but at 57 I'm sure I -- I hope I would 0101 1 live through a term as a Family Court judge, and I 2 think I'm at the right age to try it, and that's 3 basically it. 4 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. 5 You discussed that you've handled every 6 aspect of the matters that would appear before a 7 Family Court judge. Are there any areas -- 8 subjective areas of the law that you would need to 9 prepare for in order to serve as a Family Court 10 judge, and how would you undertake that additional 11 preparation? 12 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, I would never 13 assume that -- that, you know, in taking the bench 14 that I knew everything. Of course I -- I would try 15 to stay current on everything in Family Court, but 16 I do have a great deal of trial experience in the 17 Family Court, and I've watched some very good 18 judges and I feel like I have a good knowledge of 19 evidentiary rules and the rules of the Family 20 Court. 21 So I'm not saying that I know 22 everything and that I could just walk into a Family 23 Court judgeship and be the perfect judge. I would 24 certainly prepare, know what the case was about, 25 try to understand what the law was before I went 0102 1 into the courtroom if I had time, and I would 2 always try to stay current. 3 But my general knowledge of the family 4 courtroom is pretty good, and I don't mean to 5 sound, you know, conceded or -- but I do feel like 6 I have a good knowledge of what goes on in Family 7 Court. But, there again, there's always something 8 new, and I would always be prepared and -- and 9 knowledgeable about a subject. 10 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. 11 Could you explain to the Commission 12 what you believe to be the appropriate demeanor of 13 a judge. 14 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, I think the best 15 way to express it at least in my experience with 16 trying cases is this. If the lawyers that come 17 into your courtroom feel comfortable -- and when I 18 say comfortable, they're not concerned about you 19 being too much of an angry jurist or person that's 20 going to try to embarrass you in front of your 21 client or person that's going to try to show you up 22 with knowledge of the law. 23 I feel like if the lawyers are 24 comfortable and they're able to try their case in 25 comfort and feeling like it's a good, easy 0103 1 comfortable atmosphere, then the clients are going 2 to get represented the best by comfortable lawyers. 3 And I think a judge should make the lawyers feel 4 comfortable in his courtroom and at ease, and if 5 there's a problem, then he should address it in a 6 mature manner, not show any type of anger, you 7 know, be very, very careful as to how he treats the 8 clients, the litigants and the lawyers. 9 And I think that's it. I think 10 courtesy is -- is probably the best word I could 11 use. 12 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 13 Mr. Elliott, what suggestions would you 14 offer for improving the backlog of cases on the 15 Family Court docket? 16 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, I think the recent 17 mediation -- the recent mediation has been good. 18 First I kind of thought mediation would be a bad 19 thing, that I maybe had a bad attitude about it, 20 but the more I have -- the more I have investigated 21 in it, we have found some really wonderful 22 mediators out there that that have settled cases 23 and keep cases out of Family Court. I have had 24 cases that I thought would never settle, and the 25 quality of the mediator is very, very important. 0104 1 I think mediation training -- I've 2 never done it. I haven't gone through it, but 3 there are better mediators than others, and if 4 somehow or another that kind of training could be 5 emphasized, the courts wouldn't be as clogged up as 6 they are because a good mediator can settle a case. 7 All cases really should be settled, but a good 8 mediator can settle a case. 9 Also I think in some of these custody 10 issues, a lot of times clients -- and I feel 11 litigants go to court and they beat their chest and 12 they want to fight about custody, and really it's 13 just an angry reaction to a recent separation or 14 whatnot. But I think if the judge was proactive 15 with the guardian ad litems that they appoint in 16 these cases and give them more latitude and require 17 the litigants to pay the guardian ad litems -- 18 because that's a problem in Family Court. 19 There are good guardian ad litems that 20 don't get paid by sometimes litigants who say 21 they're very interested in fighting a custody 22 battle but really are doing it more for -- for show 23 or for their own ego or just for their own pride. 24 But I believe if the Family Court judges were more 25 proactive in ensuring that the guardian ad litems 0105 1 were paid sufficiently up front and give them 2 sufficient latitude to bring the matter into court 3 that need be, I think those are two things that 4 could help. 5 MS. SHULER: Mr. Elliott, you were 6 screened previously by the Commission in 2004. 7 However, your SLED report for this screening 8 reflects three lawsuits, two in 1998 and one in 9 1999 in which you were named as a defendant, and 10 those lawsuits were not -- were covered in your 11 prior screening. Please briefly explain the nature 12 of those suits and the disposition. 13 MR. ELLIOTT: '98 -- I believe if you 14 could recall the names of the -- 15 MS. SHULER: Well, one you were served 16 as a trustee in a foreclosure case. 17 MR. ELLIOTT: Right. I was -- I was 18 asked years ago when I first started practicing by 19 B. A. Jordan, Bubba Jordan as I think he's known, 20 at the time to be trustee of his son Chauncey, and 21 I was a young lawyer. And there was a lot of 22 litigation surrounding that because Bubba had some 23 people that were suing him at the time and they 24 felt that Bubba had tried to put things in his 25 son's trust that they would otherwise have some 0106 1 type of action against. 2 And I was named several times in 3 litigation of the trustee of Chauncey Jordan. But 4 there was never in all of those situations any 5 situation to where I was being sued for anything 6 that I had done or any money that I had owed. I 7 was always acting in an official capacity, and I 8 forgot the other -- 9 MS. SHULER: As a follow-up, the other 10 1998 case Lomas Mortgage versus Russell, was that 11 also where you were serving in your capacity as a 12 trustee dealing -- 13 MR. ELLIOTT: That particular -- 14 MS. SHULER: -- dealing with attorneys 15 fees? 16 MR. ELLIOTT: That involved -- when 17 people get divorced, of course the divorce becomes 18 a judgment and it goes on your judgment rolls. So 19 when a lawyer does a title search for a piece of 20 property and sees a divorce, if there is some type 21 of an award of attorney's fees in that divorce, a 22 lot of times they will of course name the lawyer as 23 being owed attorney's fees to ensure that in the 24 foreclosure his interests are protected. 25 So in that particular case -- and 0107 1 when I -- to be honest with you, when it was 2 brought up, I didn't even remember the case it had 3 been so long ago. But apparently I was owed some 4 attorney's fees -- I think it was a couple 5 hundred -- that was in the divorce, and that -- 6 they named me so he would ensure that I got paid my 7 fees. And I have been paid and I asked that the 8 courts dismiss me as a party defendant. So that's 9 why my name was on there. 10 MS. SHULER: The third case in 1989 was 11 Southern National Bank versus Elliott. 12 MR. ELLIOTT: That -- that was a 13 situation to where I was at a meeting at the First 14 Palmetto -- old First Palmetto Back with Carl 15 Braswell and my father, and there was a giant 16 meeting where a bunch of assets were being split up 17 with a partnership that my father was involved in, 18 and for some reason or another the -- this lawyer 19 Sam Crews had the idea that I owed the bank money 20 when -- when the assets were being divvied up. 21 Some reason or another he thought that 22 I owed that bank money and he filed suit against 23 me. Well, I called him and straightened it out. 24 He wasn't even at the meeting and he withdrew the 25 suit. It was actually a mistake. Here again, I 0108 1 was involved in trying to separate assets for my 2 father and other people and with the bank, and for 3 some reason he thought I had that note and I 4 didn't. 5 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Mr. Elliott. 6 Some housekeeping issues to cover with you. 7 Have you sought or received a pledge of 8 any legislator prior to this date? 9 MR. ELLIOTT: No, ma'am. 10 MS. SHULER: Have you sought or have 11 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 12 any legislator pending the outcome of your 13 screening? 14 MR. ELLIOTT: No, ma'am. 15 MS. SHULER: Have you asked any third 16 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 17 on your behalf? 18 MR. ELLIOTT: No, ma'am. 19 MS. SHULER: Have you contacted any 20 members of the Commission? 21 MR. ELLIOTT: No, ma'am. 22 MS. SHULER: Do you understand that 23 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 24 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 25 of the Commission's report? 0109 1 MR. ELLIOTT: I understand that. 2 MS. SHULER: Have you reviewed the 3 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 4 MR. ELLIOTT: I have. 5 MS. SHULER: Are you aware of the 6 penalties, that is, it's a misdemeanor and upon 7 conviction you could be fined not more than a 8 thousand dollars and imprisoned not more than 90 9 days? 10 MR. ELLIOTT: I understand. 11 MS. SHULER: I would note that the 12 Midlands Citizen Committee found Mr. Elliott well 13 qualified for each of the nine evaluative criteria, 14 Constitution qualifications, ethical fitness, 15 professional and academic ability, character, 16 reputation, physical health, mental stability, 17 experience, and judicial temperament. They also 18 noted that Mr. Elliott's 28 years of experience in 19 addition to his humility, his maturity and desire 20 for service make him a very eminently qualified and 21 most highly regarded candidate. The Committee is 22 confident that he would serve the Family Court in a 23 most outstanding manner. 24 I would just note for the record that 25 any concerns raised during the investigation of 0110 1 this candidate were covered in my questioning of 2 the candidate today. 3 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 4 questions for Mr. Elliott. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 6 Any member of the Commission have any 7 questions? 8 I just have one thing for you. I very 9 much appreciated your very thoughtful and 10 well-reasoned remarks on judicial temperament, both 11 oral and written, presented. 12 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you very 14 much. 15 With that, this concludes this portion 16 of our screening process. As you know, the record 17 will remain open until the report is published, and 18 you may be called back at such time -- that's not 19 to indicate there's anything at all pending. It's 20 just a policy of ours. 21 Also I need to remind you again about 22 the 48-hour rule and ask you to be very mindful of 23 that, so mindful that in fact if anyone inquires 24 about whether they may or may not advocate for you 25 in the event this Commission should screen you out, 0111 1 please remind them of the 48-hour rule. 2 With that, thank you and the family for 3 coming and have a great day. 4 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you very much. 5 Appreciate being here. 6 (Candidate excused.) 7 (Off the record.) 8 * * * * * 9 (Michael Shawn Harmon's screening was 10 not transcribed because of his withdraw.) 11 * * * * * 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll go back on 13 the record at this particular time, and we have 14 before us Gwendlyne Young Smalls -- 15 MR. HARMON: No. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Wait a minute. I 17 have shifted too far. That's right. I see it. I 18 got it. Shifted. I apologize. I'm sitting here 19 looking -- we've got these big books and lots of 20 paper. 21 MS. HART: Yes, sir. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: We've got before us 23 Ms. Lillie C. Hart who is offering for Family 24 Court, Fifth Judicial Circuit, Seat Number 4. 25 Before I start and swear you in, I 0112 1 noticed you have some guests with you, and if you'd 2 like, if you wish to introduce any of them to us. 3 MS. HART: Sure. Dr. Ezell Pittman, 4 Ms. Beverly Hart Pittman. She's not related. 5 She's just a very good friend, and Lanisha Hart, my 6 daughter-in-law. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: We're delighted to 8 have you all with us today. 9 If you'd be so kind as to raise your 10 right hand. 11 (Candidate sworn.) 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 13 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 14 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquires 15 focused on nine evaluative criteria and has 16 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 17 thorough study of your application materials, 18 verification of your compliance with state ethics 19 laws, search of newspaper articles in which your 20 name appears, studies of previous screenings, and a 21 check for economic conflicts of interest. 22 We have received no affidavits filed in 23 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 24 present to testify. 25 Ask you if you wish to give any opening 0113 1 statement. It's purely optional. How we proceed 2 is the staff counsel will ask you some questions. 3 At the conclusion of that we'll see if any 4 commissioners have any questions. 5 MS. HART: All right. Well, briefly I 6 would just say that this is my second time coming 7 before the Commission, and I come this time 8 believing like I did the last time that I would 9 make a very good Family Court judge. I believe 10 that to some extent I'm called to offer myself to 11 serve as Family Court judge, and I believe that my 12 experiences, my skills, my knowledge and a little 13 bit of wisdom so -- qualify me well. And that 14 would be my statement. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Well, 16 thank you so much. 17 Please answer the questions that 18 counsel has for you. 19 MS. HART: Yes, sir. 20 MR. DENNIS: Afternoon, Ms. Hart. Nice 21 to see you. 22 MS. HART: Good afternoon. 23 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, members of 24 the Commission, I have just a few procedural 25 matters I'm going to take care of with Ms. Hart 0114 1 before we begin. 2 Ms. Hart, you should have before you a 3 copy of your personal data questionnaire and an 4 amendment that you previously submitted to the 5 Commission. Are there any additional amendments 6 that you wish to make to your PDQ at this time? 7 MS. HART: No, there are none. 8 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 9 that Ms. Hart's personal data questionnaire and 10 amendment be entered as an exhibit into this 11 hearing record. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 13 so ordered. 14 (EXH. 17, Personal Data Questionnaire 15 of Ms. Lillie Currington Hart, admitted.) 16 MR. DENNIS: Ms. Hart, you should also 17 have in front of you a -- your sworn statement in 18 which you provided detailed answers to 30 questions 19 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 20 qualifications, office administration, and 21 temperament. Is there any amendment that you'd 22 like to make to that sworn statement at this time? 23 MS. HART: No. I believe that the 24 amendments that I asked for were to the sworn 25 statement. 0115 1 MR. DENNIS: That's right. That's my 2 mistake. They were to the sworn statement, not to 3 the PDQ. 4 MS. HART: Right. No, I would have 5 no -- no other amendments. 6 MR. DENNIS: At this time, 7 Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that her sworn statement and 8 those amendments be made a part of the record. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 10 so ordered. 11 (EXH. 18, Sworn Statement of Lillie 12 Currington Hart, admitted.) 13 MR. DENNIS: There's one final 14 procedural matter. I note for the record that 15 based on the testimony contained in the candidate's 16 PDQ which has been included in the record with the 17 candidate's consent, Ms. Hart meets the statutory 18 requirements for this position regarding age, 19 residence, and years of practice. 20 Ms. Hart, before we begin, will you 21 state for the record your city and judicial circuit 22 of residence, please. 23 MS. HART: It's Columbia, South 24 Carolina, and it's the Fifth Circuit. 25 MR. DENNIS: Thank you, ma'am. 0116 1 You touched on this in your opening 2 statement, but would you mind telling the 3 Commission a little bit more about why you would 4 like to serve as a Family Court judge. 5 MS. HART: Well, my primary reason for 6 wanting to serve is because I believe that I have 7 some experience and some knowledge that would allow 8 me to serve the community well. And so my primary 9 reason is because I believe that if you believe 10 that you can serve the community in a capacity, you 11 ought to do it. That's just a civic responsibility 12 as I see it frankly. 13 And I have a very strong interest, 14 always have had a very strong interest -- since 15 I've been an adult and professional, a strong 16 interest in the way the court system works as 17 regards children. I think I was motivated to go 18 into the law primarily because of concern about 19 child welfare cases and the law as it affects 20 children, and so that's probably the primary source 21 of my motivation for even being in the law and 22 certainly for running. 23 MR. DENNIS: Can you explain to the 24 Commission how you feel your legal and professional 25 experience to this point would assist you in being 0117 1 a Family Court judge. 2 MS. HART: Well, I have past -- what is 3 it now? 11 years. I have a very broad experience 4 in the Family Court, custody, divorces, adoptions, 5 and a broader experience than most in regards to 6 child welfare, child protection, or child abuse and 7 neglect cases. I believe that because I've had 8 that experience across a broad spectrum of Family 9 Court, I think that that helps me to go into -- or 10 would help me to go onto the bench with a view that 11 is in fact broad. 12 I also believe that in terms of the 13 kind of work that I've done as a guardian ad litem 14 in terms of representing children, in terms of 15 representing in some cases handicapped or disabled 16 adults and defendants, I believe that that 17 experience also helps me to take on judicial 18 responsibilities. 19 MR. DENNIS: While your experience from 20 this point has primarily been in the Family Court, 21 are there any areas of the law that you feel like 22 you would need extra preparation for before taking 23 the bench as a Family Court judge and how would you 24 go about obtaining that extra preparation? 25 MS. HART: To be perfectly frank, I'm 0118 1 not sure that there's a whole lot that I would need 2 to do in terms of preparing me in any particular 3 area before I took the bench. I do believe that 4 when you're on the bench you're constantly learning 5 and you're constantly forced to learn new law 6 whether you're practicing as an attorney or sitting 7 on the bench. 8 And so I -- I would believe that though 9 I don't think I need to go out and do any study of 10 any particular area of the law at this point -- or 11 before I would take the bench, I do believe that it 12 would be absolutely imperative that I'm always able 13 and open to learning about whatever areas, whatever 14 issues are coming before me. 15 MR. DENNIS: Yes, ma'am. Ms. Hart, 16 you -- you address this in your sworn affidavit, 17 but could you explain to the members of the 18 Commission what you believe to be the appropriate 19 demeanor for a judge. 20 MS. HART: I think a judge needs to 21 always be respectful of everybody in the court. I 22 think that judges need to be attentive to what is 23 going on in the courtroom. I believe that the 24 demeanor ought to be clearly to -- obvious. It 25 ought to show to the parties and to the attorneys 0119 1 that you take what is happening in the court 2 serious at time that it is happening. 3 Certainly in Family Court the issues 4 are very, very important, very often very, very 5 personal, and are of great significance to the 6 parties, and so I think that a judge needs to be 7 attentive, respectful, and serious as they hear 8 cases. 9 MR. DENNIS: Ma'am, as you and I have 10 discussed, the South Carolina Bar Association had 11 some concerns raised about your temperament, and 12 the Commission has received no specific information 13 about what those concerns are. We're not aware of 14 any specific instances. So I would ask you to 15 generally comment to the Commission on how you feel 16 your temperament would be and would your 17 temperament be suited for judicial office. 18 Do you feel as though you have any 19 temperament issues? 20 MS. HART: As I told you, I absolutely 21 don't think I have any temperament issues. Having 22 come before the Commission and gone through the 23 process before, I don't think that was raised three 24 years ago, and I am surprised that it was raised 25 this time. I believe that it might -- the issue 0120 1 for some people might be that I have the audacity 2 to run the last time against a sitting judge. I'm 3 not going to say that that is it. 4 But I do not believe I have any 5 temperament problems that would affect me as a 6 judge. I have never -- I don't recall ever having 7 been confronted about any temperament problem, and 8 so I just don't believe I have a problem there. 9 MR. DENNIS: What -- what specific 10 suggestions would you make for improving the 11 backlog associated with the Family Court docket? 12 MS. HART: Oh, my. I'm not sure that 13 there's a whole lot that you can do except to in 14 Richland County -- I have to say Richland because 15 that's where I practice primarily. I think we 16 spend almost too much time in pretrials in 17 Richland. I don't particularly think that they are 18 cutting down on the time that cases are on the 19 docket. And so I think that would be something 20 that I would want to change maybe. I think we need 21 more judges, and I can't do anything about that. 22 I'm just not sure that there's a whole 23 lot that the judges can do to improve as far as the 24 counties where I primarily practice, Richland 25 primarily and Lexington, to improve the problem 0121 1 that we have with the backlog unless we got more 2 judges, because the cases are there and they're 3 going to keep coming, and I think there are really 4 good efforts made through pretrials. I just think 5 we spend too much time pre-trying. 6 MR. DENNIS: Ms. Hart, you include in 7 your submission to the Commission that if you were 8 to be elected to Family Court, you would plan to 9 serve only one term. That's something that doesn't 10 generally show up in submissions to this 11 Commission. Would you explain to the Commission 12 why you would plan to only serve one term. 13 MS. HART: The main reason is that I 14 think that it's really important for judges to be 15 always at the top of their game in terms of being 16 able to be focused, attentive, doing what's -- to 17 what's going in the courtroom. Frankly, although I 18 am I think a very young 60, I'm 60 years old, and I 19 would not want to reach the point of diminishing 20 returns where I might not be able to clearly always 21 consistently be at the top of my game in terms of 22 presiding over the cases that are in the Family 23 Court. 24 And so I just believe based on that it 25 probably would be prudent for me not to take on two 0122 1 terms if I'm elected to serve one because then 2 we're talking about 12 years, and I don't want to 3 reach that point of diminishing returns. I've 4 seen -- I've seen some -- I've been concerned about 5 that sometimes, and I would not want to be there. 6 MR. DENNIS: Thank you very much, 7 Ms. Hart. 8 I'm going to run through just a couple 9 of housekeeping measures with you. 10 Have you sought or received the pledge 11 of any legislator prior to this date? 12 MS. HART: Absolutely not. 13 MR. DENNIS: Have you sought or have 14 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 15 any legislator pending the outcome of your 16 screening? 17 MS. HART: No, sir. I have spoken to 18 none since I was running three years ago. 19 MR. DENNIS: Have you asked any third 20 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 21 on your behalf? 22 MS. HART: I have not. 23 MR. DENNIS: Have you contacted any 24 members of this Commission? 25 MS. HART: Absolutely not. 0123 1 MR. DENNIS: Do you understand that 2 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 3 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 4 of the Commission's report? 5 MS. HART: Yes. 6 MR. DENNIS: Have you reviewed the 7 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 8 MS. HART: Yes, I have. 9 MR. DENNIS: And are you aware of the 10 maximum 90 day, thousand dollar penalty and 11 misdemeanor conviction for violating those rules? 12 MS. HART: I remember the thousand 13 dollars. I didn't remember the 90 days. But, yes, 14 I am reminded. 15 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, I would note 16 that the Midlands Citizen Committee reported that 17 Ms. Hart was well qualified in each of the 18 evaluative criteria. I would also note that they 19 commented especially on her pleasant temperament. 20 I would just note for the record that 21 any concerns raised during the investigation 22 regarding the candidate were incorporated into the 23 questioning of the candidate today. 24 And, Mr. Chairman, I have nothing 25 further. 0124 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right, thank 2 you, sir. 3 Does any member of the Commission have 4 a question? 5 All right. Then that concludes this 6 portion of our screening process. As you know, the 7 record will remain open until the report is 8 published, and you may be called back at such time 9 as the need arises. At this point I know of 10 nothing that's pending. 11 I need again to remind you of the 12 48-hour rule, ask that you be very mindful of that, 13 so mindful that in fact if anyone inquires about 14 whether or not they may advocate for you in the 15 event you're reported by this Commission, that you 16 will remind them also of the 48-hour rule. 17 With that, thank you. Have a good 18 afternoon. 19 MS. HART: Thank you. 20 (Candidate excused.) 21 (Off the record.) 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 23 go back on the record at this point. 24 We have before us Ms. Gwendlyne Young 25 Smalls who is offering for the Family Court, Fifth 0125 1 Circuit, Seat Number 4. 2 And before I swear you in and we start, 3 I notice you have some guests, and we'd be happy 4 for you to introduce your guests to us. 5 MS. SMALLS: Sure. I have my best 6 friends with me this afternoon, my parents Andy and 7 Velma Young. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: We're delighted to 9 have y'all with us. Thank you for coming. 10 With that, if you'd be so kind as to 11 raise your right hand. 12 (Candidate sworn.) 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 14 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 15 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 16 the bench. Inquiries focused on our nine 17 evaluative criteria, and it has included a survey 18 of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 19 application materials, verification of your 20 compliance with state ethics laws, search of 21 newspaper articles in which your name appears, 22 study of previous screenings, and a check for 23 economic conflicts of interest. 24 We have received no affidavits filed in 25 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 0126 1 present to testify. 2 So I'd ask you if you have any brief 3 opening statement you wish to give the Commission. 4 It's purely optional. The procedure that we follow 5 is this. Turn you over to staff counsel. They 6 will have some questions for you. At the 7 conclusion of that members of the Commission may or 8 may not have any questions, and that will wrap up 9 the hearing. 10 MS. SMALLS: Thank you. I'm just 11 honored to be here today to answer any questions 12 whatsoever that you may have regarding my 13 qualifications. Thank you. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. Please 15 answer the questions from staff counsel. 16 MS. BENSON: Mr. Chairman, members of 17 the Commission and, Ms. Smalls, you have before you 18 your personal data questionnaire, and I believe 19 that there's one amendment that you have submitted 20 to that concerning a case that was on the SLED 21 report that was not reported in -- in your 22 materials or that we needed some more information 23 about. Is there any other amendment that you would 24 offer to your personal data questionnaire at this 25 time? 0127 1 MS. SMALLS: No, ma'am. 2 MS. BENSON: Mr. Chairman, I would like 3 to ask that Ms. Smalls' personal data questionnaire 4 and amendment be entered into -- an exhibit on the 5 hearing record. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 7 objection, so ordered. 8 (EXH. 19, Personal Data Questionnaire 9 and Amendment of Ms. Gwendlyne Young Smalls, 10 admitted.) 11 MS. BENSON: Ms. Smalls, you also have 12 before you the sworn statement that you provided 13 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 14 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 15 qualifications, office administration, and 16 temperament. Is there any amendment that you would 17 make to that at this time? 18 MS. SMALLS: No, ma'am. 19 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 20 Mr. Chairman, I would ask that the 21 sworn statement of Ms. Smalls be included in the 22 record at this time. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 24 objection, so ordered. 25 (EXH. 20, Sworn Statement of Gwendlyne 0128 1 Young Smalls, admitted.) 2 MS. BENSON: One final procedural 3 matter. I would note for the record that based on 4 the testimony contained in Ms. Smalls' PDQ which 5 has been included in the record with her consent, 6 that she meets the statutory requirements for this 7 position regarding age, residence, and years of 8 practice. 9 Ms. Smalls, for the record as a 10 candidate for a Family Court judge would you please 11 tell the Commission the city and the judicial 12 circuit in which you reside. 13 MS. SMALLS: Yes. I live in Columbia, 14 South Carolina, Richland County. 15 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 16 Ms. Smalls, why do you want to serve as 17 Family Court judge? 18 MS. SMALLS: After having practiced for 19 nearly 20 years -- and I have been an advocate for 20 men, women and children in court -- I viewed the 21 opportunity to serve in a Family Court judge 22 capacity as an avenue to actually be able to serve 23 in a neutral capacity where I can actually utilize 24 what I have learned over my 20 years of experience 25 and actually utilizing the law as I've learned it, 0129 1 not only over 20 years but daily, and applying it 2 to the facts on a case-by-case basis and actually 3 representing those persons in this -- in this 4 instance actually being in a neutral capacity where 5 I actually can view it on a case-by-case basis and 6 applying it to those individuals. 7 With Family Court being such an 8 emotionally charged atmosphere, I'm certain that I 9 exhibit the appropriate judicial demeanor, and I 10 actually have obtained the necessary education to 11 serve in this capacity. 12 MS. BENSON: Ms. Smalls, can you tell 13 the Commission a little bit about your legal 14 experience and how it would be helpful to you as a 15 Family Court judge and also where you might need 16 to -- to have the -- some additional attention 17 given to areas that you may not be as familiar 18 with. 19 MS. SMALLS: Sure. I have -- in I 20 guess a couple weeks it will be 20 years since I 21 have actually taken the oath of office to practice 22 law. I began my practice as a Richland County 23 public defender while in that capacity. I first 24 began doing both -- General Sessions cases, but 25 after serving approximately six years, I was in 0130 1 charge of the juvenile division of Richland County 2 of where I was charged with actually supervising I 3 think it was approximately three or four other 4 attorneys, as well as those persons who may have 5 been charged with responsibility of actually being 6 on duty for Family Court. And in that capacity it 7 was strictly juvenile work. 8 In 1995 I went out on my own, and ever 9 since that time I've had the opportunity to broaden 10 the area. Matter of fact, initially when I went in 11 private practice, I had the opportunity to get a 12 Kellogg grant where I was charged with the 13 responsibility of terminating parental rights for 14 several counties. 15 After that I actually had the 16 opportunity to do not only divorce work, adoptions, 17 abuse and neglect, very complicated contested 18 divorce matters -- matters involving equitable 19 distribution -- equitable distribution, but pretty 20 much every facet that is involved in Family Court 21 I've had the pleasure of actually being involved in 22 during my legal career. 23 MS. BENSON: Ms. Smalls, you have a 24 very compelling letter in your letters of reference 25 from Mr. Delgado which mentions a personal incident 0131 1 in which you took a particular interest in a person 2 who actually broke into your -- your home and went 3 with him to court. You and I have talked about 4 your -- your family and your personal background. 5 I wonder if you might want to tell the Commission a 6 little bit about how you think that that might 7 assist you in -- in being a Family Court judge. 8 MS. SMALLS: It seems like it was just 9 yesterday that my -- she's 17 years old now, but 10 she was 16 years old at the time. That -- she came 11 into my bedroom indicating that there was what she 12 thought -- a young man trying to break in my home. 13 And because it was like 5:00 or six o'clock in the 14 morning, I basically told her, "Well, it must be a 15 dog or something. Everything will be okay," and 16 actually initially I went back to sleep. 17 My daughter drives to school, and my 18 son goes to school at 8:40 because in Richland One 19 high school students go to school much earlier than 20 middle school students. But my daughter was quite 21 certain, and upon prodding she indicated that she 22 was quite certain that there was someone trying to 23 break in our home. So I got out of the bed and I 24 actually went into the area where she indicated 25 that she had heard someone, and she was correct. 0132 1 At least from my estimation it appeared that 2 someone was realistically trying to break into my 3 home. 4 Unlike my daughter who isn't crying, 5 who isn't -- whether you want it, I immediately 6 took my son and daughter into the bathroom and 7 locked the door and called 911. After they arrived 8 to the home, we actually were able to peer out the 9 bathroom window and actually observed an individual 10 who would not heed to the commands of law 11 enforcement, asking that he put his hands over his 12 head, and they had to threaten him with a Taser, 13 and ultimately they placed -- handcuffed him on the 14 ground. 15 That fear is actually unimaginable. 16 The police officers gave me the opportunity 17 immediately to talk to the individual. And I 18 talked to my family. I don't think my family even 19 know how the actual case ended and actually what I 20 did to resolve it, and I guess this would be the 21 first time they're hearing it as well. 22 When I talked with the individual, I 23 learned that he was a freshman at USC, appeared to 24 be a pretty bright individual. I think from 25 Charleston, South Carolina. And he really felt 0133 1 that he was knocking on the door of someone's home 2 that he knew. Now, when I talked to my colleagues, 3 they would say, "Well, you were just simply asking 4 as a defense attorney." But without a doubt I know 5 that's not the case. I was simply asking as a 6 human being because my children's safety was 7 definitely first. 8 But at the same time I think in the 9 practice of law whether, you know, as a private 10 practitioner or as a judge, your life experiences 11 are something that you cannot throw out the window 12 and your upbringing is something you can't throw 13 out the window. So when my daughter was able to 14 tell me the name of the individual that was banging 15 on the door -- basically it was shaking the house 16 literally. 17 When she kept saying, "Who is it?" the 18 person kept saying his first and last name. 19 Immediately I was able to relate to my legal 20 knowledge. It just did not make sense that he 21 intended any harm whatsoever to my family. So 22 after much contemplation I decided to give this 23 young man another chance. I was contacted by the 24 Solicitor's Office. It very well could have been a 25 charge and I could have ended his life, not just 0134 1 his -- his college career at USC, but his life. 2 But my gut told me that it was simply a mistake. 3 As a part of his condition of his being 4 allowed to participate in pretrial intervention, he 5 writes me every single month. His mother wrote me 6 and she indicated, "I realize after having done my 7 research that if my son had ended up at any other 8 home, I probably would have been attending a 9 funeral." She perceives me as a guardian angel. I 10 perceive myself as simply human, and I really think 11 that that experience has afforded me the ability to 12 just look at everything on a case-by-case basis. 13 And -- and I think that's something I will continue 14 to do. 15 MS. BENSON: Thank you, Ms. Smalls. 16 Could -- could you explain what that 17 you would like to have your legacy as a Family 18 Court judge be. 19 MS. SMALLS: I would want people to 20 remember me as someone that was both firm, however 21 compassionate. I think it's important -- Family 22 Court is such an emotionally charged arena that the 23 last thing litigants and pro se litigants need is 24 for a Family Court judge to be someone that is 25 disrespectful, rude for no reason whatsoever. 0135 1 You dealing with displaced families, 2 children, broken homes. I think the temperament is 3 probably one of the most important characteristics 4 for this job, and that's what I want to be 5 remembered as someone that was fair, firm, however 6 compassionate. 7 MS. BENSON: And would you have any 8 suggestions for alleviating the back load -- the 9 backlog in the Family Court system? 10 MS. SMALLS: We've implemented the 365 11 day rule, and the purpose for that was to ensure 12 that within 365 days that the courses are -- that 13 the cases are actually moved. However, I've seen 14 an abuse of that 365 day rule. On the 364th day 15 someone will file a motion for a status conference. 16 But what I would like to see happen is 17 within 365 days there's actually a definite ruling 18 on those cases unless a judge has made a 19 determination that there is actually good cause for 20 any further delay. 21 MS. BENSON: Ms. Smalls, as a 22 follow-up, how -- how would you deal with pro se 23 litigants, particularly pro se litigants who come 24 forward and perhaps ask for a continuance in -- in 25 the Family Court? 0136 1 MS. SMALLS: Unfortunately because pro 2 se litigants do not have the advice of counsel, you 3 take that into consideration when you have someone 4 on the other side and you're giving them a little 5 leeway in their manner of asking questions. 6 However, I do not feel that -- they should not be 7 given any more deference than anyone else. 8 MS. BENSON: Thank you, Ms. Small. 9 A few housekeeping issues. 10 Have you sought or received for -- for 11 this run for office. I know you have appeared 12 before this panel for previous screenings, but have 13 you sought or received the pledge of any legislator 14 prior to this date? 15 MS. SMALLS: I have not. 16 MS. BENSON: Have you sought or have 17 you been offered a conditional pledge of support by 18 any legislator pending the outcome of your 19 screening? 20 MS. SMALLS: No, ma'am. 21 MS. BENSON: Have you asked any third 22 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 23 on your behalf? 24 MS. SMALLS: No, ma'am. 25 MS. BENSON: Have you contacted any 0137 1 members of the Commission? 2 MS. SMALLS: No. 3 MS. BENSON: Do you understand that 4 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge of 5 commitment until 48 hours after the report has been 6 issued? 7 MS. SMALLS: I understand. 8 MS. BENSON: Have you reviewed the 9 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 10 MS. SMALLS: Yes, ma'am. 11 MS. BENSON: Are you aware that the 12 penalties for violating the pledging rules are that 13 it is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of no more 14 than a thousand dollars and imprisonment of not 15 more than 90 days? 16 MS. SMALLS: Yes, ma'am. 17 MS. BENSON: Mr. Chairman, I would note 18 that the Midlands Citizen Committee reported that 19 Ms. Smalls is well qualified for each of the nine 20 evaluative criteria that were considered. They 21 also said in summary -- the Committee stated it 22 believed that Ms. Smalls is very highly qualified 23 to serve on the Family Court bench and we are 24 confident that she would serve in an outstanding 25 manner. 0138 1 In addition, I would also note -- 2 excuse me. I would also note that the South 3 Carolina Bar's judicial qualifications Committee 4 found Ms. Smalls qualified in all the categories 5 with the exception of ethical fitness for which -- 6 and judicial temperament in which they found her 7 well qualified. 8 I would note also for the record that 9 any concerns raised during the investigation were 10 either handled in previous screenings or had been 11 incorporated in the questions for today. 12 And, Mr. Chairman, I have no further 13 questions. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 15 Any member of the Commission have a 16 question? 17 I would just say one thing to you when 18 you look over the background materials and 19 everything, it's a high accommodation about your 20 ethics and your temperament. 21 MS. SMALLS: Thank you. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Well earned. 23 With that, this concludes that portion 24 of our screening process. As you know, the record 25 will remain open until the report is published, and 0139 1 you may be called back at such time if the need 2 arises. We know of nothing at this point that's 3 outstanding. 4 Remind you again of the 48-hour rule 5 and ask you to be very mindful of it, so mindful 6 that if in fact the Committee should report you 7 out, that if any advocate approaches you about 8 wanting to advocate for you, that you remind them 9 of the 48-hour rule. 10 With that, thank you for offering. 11 Have a great day. 12 MS. SMALLS: Thank you. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank y'all for 14 coming. 15 (Candidate excused.) 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: This will conclude 17 this group of candidates. Before we break for 18 lunch, is it your pleasure to go ahead and talk 19 while this is fresh? 20 With that, do I hear a motion that we 21 go into executive session for any personal 22 comments? 23 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: So moved. 24 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Second. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: Moved and seconded. 0140 1 The floor is now open for discussion. 2 Is there any discussion? There being no 3 discussion, we'll go into a vote. 4 All in favor please say aye. Opposed 5 by nay. Abstentions and proxies. 6 Let the record show that we have a 7 recorded vote and that every single member, Senator 8 Nicholson included, voted to go into executive 9 session so that we show that as a roll call -- 10 recorded vote. 11 With that, we are now in executive 12 session. 13 Sergeant, please secure the chambers. 14 (The members went into executive 15 session at 1:10 p.m.) 16 * * * * * 17 (The members returned to open session 18 at 1:20 p.m.) 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, if you 20 would announce outside so that I can make the 21 public announcement. The doors are open. 22 Off the record. 23 (Off the record.) 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 25 go back on the record at this particular time. The 0141 1 doors are now open. We are back in public session. 2 The Commission has taken no formal 3 action or any action of any nature in executive 4 session, and we've decided to proceed for lunch. 5 (A lunch recess transpired.) 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We're 7 going to reconvene the Judicial Screening 8 Committee, and before we move forward, while we 9 were at lunch we received some correspondence, and 10 I'll just share that with you for the record. 11 It's -- it is to the Judicial Screening 12 Comission. "I respectfully wish to immediately 13 withdraw my name from the consideration for the 14 Family Court Fifth Judicial Circuit, Seat Number 4 15 position. Thank you for your time, consideration," 16 and it's signed by M. Shawn Harmon. 17 So without objection, we would accept 18 his letter of withdrawal. 19 We've still got -- we haven't done 20 anything on that race, so we might as well go ahead 21 and do that. 22 MS. SHULER: Four candidates. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: We have four 24 candidates. We might as well go on and do that at 25 this particular time before we get underway with 0142 1 some additional stuff. 2 So what I would suggest that we do -- 3 and we will give -- to make it efficient for 4 purposes of getting a recorded vote, I'm going to 5 ask you to raise your hand as we go through each 6 one since we've got to go through the qualification 7 and nomination and then give -- I will ask you to 8 call out the votes to her instead of us having just 9 a roll call vote. That we get a recorded vote on 10 everything, if that's okay. That's what we did 11 yesterday. 12 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Mr. Chairman, 13 before you proceed, may I move that we find all 14 four qualified. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: You may. 16 MR. SELLERS: Second. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. The 18 motion is we find all the candidates that are still 19 in the race as qualified, the four candidates. So 20 I had heard a second. 21 Open for discussion. Is there any 22 discussion? 23 There being none, all in favor please 24 raise your right hand. 25 MS. SHULER: That would be Senator 0143 1 Nicholson, Representative Harrell, Representative 2 Clemmons, Representative Delleney. 3 And are you voting Ms. McLester's 4 proxy? 5 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 6 MS. SHULER: And Senator McConnell, 7 Senator Knotts, Professor Freeman, Representative 8 Mack and Mr. Sellers. So that's ten. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. All 10 have been found qualified. 11 Now, under the statutes we only can 12 report out three which means we have to nominate. 13 I will call out the names of each one, and you can 14 vote three times. 15 With that, we'll start with The 16 Honorable DeAndrea Benjamin. All in favor of 17 nominating her, please raise your right hand and 18 call them out. 19 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 20 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 21 Representative Delleney, and Ms. McLester's proxy, 22 Senator McConnell, Senator Knotts, Professor 23 Freeman, Representative Mack, and Mr. Sellers. So 24 that's ten. All right. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. The 0144 1 next one is Stevens B. Elliott. All in favor of 2 nominating him. 3 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 4 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 5 Representative Delleney. Ms. McLester's proxy? 6 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 7 MS. SHULER: Senator McConnell, Senator 8 Knotts, Professor Freeman, Representative Mack, and 9 Mr. Sellers. So that would be ten. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Lillie 11 C. Hart. 12 MS. SHULER: Zero. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. 14 Gwendlyne Smalls. 15 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 16 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 17 Representative Delleney, with Ms. McLester's proxy, 18 Senator McConnell, Senator Knotts, Professor 19 Freeman, Representative Mack, and Mr. Sellers. 20 Ten. 21 So the candidates who are found 22 qualified and nominated are The Honorable DeAndrea 23 Benjamin, Mr. Stevens Elliott, and Gwendlyne 24 Smalls. 25 And if I could have your sheets. 0145 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Which 2 brings us now to the afternoon session, and we will 3 start out with the Family Court, the Seventh 4 Judicial Circuit, and I think our first -- the 5 first candidate and the only candidate in that 6 race, Phillip Sinclair. Y'all could... 7 (Off the record.) 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 9 go on the record at this point. 10 We have before us Mr. Phillip K. 11 Sinclair who is offering for the Family Court, 12 Seventh Circuit, Seat Number 1. 13 Good to have you here with us. 14 MR. SINCLAIR: Thank you. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: If you would be so 16 kind as to raise your right hand. 17 (Candidate sworn.) 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 19 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 20 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 21 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 22 evaluative criteria. It's included a survey of the 23 bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 24 application materials, a verification of your 25 compliance with state ethics laws, search of 0146 1 newspaper articles in which your name appears, 2 study of previous screenings, and the check for 3 economic conflicts of interest. 4 We have received no affidavits filed in 5 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 6 present to testify. 7 So I'd ask you if you have any brief 8 opening statement you wish to give, which is purely 9 optional. The procedure is we will have counsel 10 for the Commission ask you some questions. At the 11 conclusion of that if there are any outstanding 12 questions the commissioners want to pose to you and 13 we'll wrap up the hearing. 14 MR. SINCLAIR: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 15 Just that I appreciate the opportunity to be here 16 today, and I appreciate your service to the state. 17 Thank you. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 19 With that, please answer counsel's 20 questions. 21 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman and members 22 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 23 to take care of with regards to Mr. Sinclair. 24 Mr. Sinclair, you have before you the 25 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 0147 1 of your application and your amendment. Are there 2 any additional amendments that you would like to 3 make at this time to the PDQ? 4 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. 5 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 6 ask that Mr. Sinclair's personal data questionnaire 7 and amendment be entered as an exhibit into the 8 hearing record. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 10 objection, so ordered. 11 (EXH. 21, Personal Data Questionnaire 12 and Amendment of Mr. Phillip K. Sinclair, 13 admitted.) 14 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Sinclair, you have 15 before you also a sworn statement you provided with 16 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 17 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 18 administration, and temperament. Are there any 19 additional amendments you'd like to make at this 20 time to your sworn statement? 21 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. 22 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 23 ask that Mr. Sinclair's sworn statement be entered 24 as an exhibit into the hearing record. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 0148 1 so ordered. 2 (EXH. 22, Sworn Statement of Phillip K. 3 Sinclair, admitted.) 4 MR. GENTRY: One final procedural 5 matter. I note for the record that based on the 6 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ which 7 has been included in the record with the 8 candidate's consent, Mr. Sinclair meets the 9 statutory requirements for this position regarding 10 age, residence, and years of practice. 11 Mr. Sinclair, please specify the city 12 and circuit of your residency. 13 MR. SINCLAIR: Spartanburg, South 14 Carolina, Seventh Judicial Circuit, Seat 1. 15 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Sinclair, please 16 explain why you want to serve as a Family Court 17 judge. 18 MR. SINCLAIR: Mr. Chairman, members of 19 the Commission, I've been honored I guess to have a 20 lot of opportunities to serve on numerous 21 committees. I've served as an assistant solicitor, 22 as a law clerk. I've been in private law practice 23 for about 28 years now, and I think that serving on 24 the judiciary is probably the highest honor that a 25 lawyer can -- can obtain in addition to, you know, 0149 1 his service in other areas, but certainly in the 2 legal field. 3 And so I -- I think for me it would be 4 an honor, and I think I'm suited in many ways to 5 serve, and I think I would enjoy -- enjoy that 6 service. 7 MR. GENTRY: You touched on this in 8 answering the question, but if you would be a 9 little more specific in explaining to the 10 Commission how you feel your legal and professional 11 experience thus far has prepared you to be a judge. 12 MR. SINCLAIR: As I mentioned, I 13 graduated from law school in 1978, but my first 14 legal job was as a law clerk to a circuit judge. 15 Then I was privileged to serve for almost three 16 years as an assistant solicitor. And since 1982 17 I've been in private law practice in Spartanburg. 18 Over the years I have practiced primarily in Family 19 Court. I would estimate that's probably two-thirds 20 or more of my practice. I also had the privilege 21 of serving in the House of Representatives for six 22 years, and frankly I think the sum of the 23 experience I gained there would probably be -- be 24 helpful too. 25 But I have experience in virtually all 0150 1 areas of practice in -- in Family Court. I've over 2 the last ten or 15 years primarily been involved in 3 divorce, equitable division, child custody, but in 4 previous years and even some today I still work in 5 the fields with abuse and neglect, a little bit in 6 Juvenile Justice, so -- so I have experience in all 7 of those areas. 8 MR. GENTRY: Are there any areas, 9 including subjective areas of law, that you would 10 need to do additional preparation in order to serve 11 as a judge and how would you go about that 12 preparation? 13 MR. SINCLAIR: Well, I do practice in 14 this field all the time, so I -- I'm probably as 15 well suited for the Family Court by virtue of my 16 practice as you could be. 17 I did make some preparation. I don't 18 do as much in the field of Juvenile Justice as I 19 used to, and so in preparation for the test that I 20 was going to be taking a few weeks ago, I did 21 obtain some materials from Michelle Dundashaw at 22 Juvenile Justice and have been reviewing those 23 materials. 24 MR. GENTRY: Although you address this 25 in your sworn affidavit, could you please explain 0151 1 to the members of the Commission what you think is 2 the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 3 MR. SINCLAIR: Well, I have told people 4 in the past that I think you can teach a lawyer the 5 law, but I'm not sure you can teach him or her the 6 right judicial temperament. I have practiced in 7 Family Court for many years, and -- and I think it 8 is very important that a Family Court judge exhibit 9 courtesy and patience with lawyers, with litigants, 10 with witnesses. 11 Very often the only contact that people 12 have with the judiciary is in a family courtroom, 13 and if they walk away with a bad taste in their 14 mouth, I think it affects their opinion about how 15 justice works in this country. So primarily 16 courtesy, patience. A judge has to be in control 17 of his courtroom, but I think those are important 18 traits that judges should always remember. 19 MR. GENTRY: What suggestions, if any, 20 would you offer for improving the backlog of cases 21 on the docket for Family Court? 22 MR. SINCLAIR: Mr. Chairman, I was a -- 23 I was a new member of the House a few years ago, 24 and somebody told me that I ought not to come to 25 the House and tell members who have been there how 0152 1 they ought to do their job. And so I suspect that 2 whatever a new judge does he should -- he or she 3 should -- should be judicious in that. 4 But having said that, I do have a few 5 ideas about things that could be done. We have 6 begun -- well, it's actually been in -- in place 7 for a number of years, mediations, and it's in 8 place in a number of circuits. I frankly was 9 opposed to it -- or I wasn't sure it was a good 10 idea when it became mandatory. What I have 11 actually found is that it has helped lawyers settle 12 a lot of cases, and I think it is valuable. 13 There are a lot of other things out 14 there. I know in Greenville County right now -- 15 they used to and I think they still do on Friday 16 afternoons. They do something called a rocket 17 docket. If you have an uncontested case, you can 18 request a ten or 15-minute hearing on Friday 19 afternoon, and in a matter of just a few weeks you 20 can have a hearing. 21 So I think there are all sorts of 22 opportunities. In Spartanburg we're now running a 23 B docket, and in Greenville they're running a C 24 docket. What that means is if there's a case that 25 sets for trial, then there is -- that's called the 0153 1 A case. There is a B case that is set behind that 2 case, and there's a C case that is set behind it. 3 If the A case settles, then the B case is up. They 4 go to trial. If the C -- if it settles, then the C 5 case goes to trial. So there are a lot of ways to 6 try to maximize the use of court time so that 7 judges aren't left with nothing to do. 8 Having -- having said all that, I guess 9 the most important thing as a judge is to be 10 available when people have something. If you have 11 some time on your docket, if you can work something 12 in, then by all means do it. 13 One new idea that may -- may come to 14 pass in the future is the idea of private 15 arbitrations. Private arbitrations are basically 16 where the two parties agree on one judge. It might 17 be a retired Family Court judge. It might be a 18 lawyer, and they agree that that person will hear 19 the case and decide the issues in their case. 20 The good news about that is that you 21 get to choose -- basically choose your judge and 22 choose your time. Not everybody can do that 23 because you have to pay those people. But -- and 24 there are also some other problems that probably 25 need to be addressed, but there are all sorts of 0154 1 ideas about ways to help expedite the docket. 2 Those are just a few. 3 MR. GENTRY: In 2007 you received a 4 fine as a result of an ethics report violation. 5 Please explain the nature of the ethics violation 6 and the final result. 7 MR. SINCLAIR: Mr. Chairman, that was 8 my fault, and I have to claim credit for it. After 9 serving in the House for six years -- I had 10 actually already ended my last term. I had spent 11 all the money out of my campaign account, and the 12 last report was due and I simply forgot about that 13 report. 14 I got a call from the House Ethics 15 Committee and within a day or so I filed the 16 report. I did pay a hundred ten dollar fine, and 17 the amendment that I sent to the Committee was -- 18 when I remembered this, it seemed that it was a 19 hundred dollar fine. When I actually went back and 20 checked, it was $110, and it was -- actually all 21 the money had been spent out of my campaign. 22 MR. GENTRY: In 1999 and 2001, two 23 lawsuits were filed against your law firm. Please 24 explain the nature of those lawsuits and their 25 final outcomes as well. 0155 1 MR. SINCLAIR: Mr. Chairman and 2 members, I did provide a copy of some paperwork on 3 those. One of my partners at that time did a large 4 number of -- still does a large number of private 5 adoptions. Both of those lawsuits were filed 6 against our law firm which was Thompson and 7 Sinclair, but they actually involved actions that 8 he was involved in, I was not personally involved 9 in. The cases were -- one was dismissed and the 10 other was settled. 11 MR. GENTRY: You are a member of 12 Children Come First, a nonprofit organization with 13 the primary purpose of advocating for systematic 14 change in South Carolina's foster care system. 15 You're also a member of the Spartanburg County Safe 16 Homes Rape Crisis Coalition Board. Would you 17 continue to serve as a member of these 18 organizations if you were elected as a judge? 19 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. And I'm also a 20 member of a couple of other committees and 21 commissions. I also belong to the Croft Fire 22 Commission, and I would also resign from that -- 23 from that position. 24 MR. GENTRY: Thank you, Mr. Sinclair. 25 Have you sought or received the pledge 0156 1 of any legislator prior to this date? 2 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. 3 MR. GENTRY: Have you sought or have 4 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 5 any legislator pending the outcome of your 6 screening? 7 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. 8 MR. GENTRY: Have you asked any third 9 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 10 on your behalf? 11 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. 12 MR. GENTRY: Have you contacted any 13 members of the Commission? 14 MR. SINCLAIR: No, sir. I will say I 15 did send a letter of introduction to other House 16 members, but did not send any to the Judicial Merit 17 Screening Commission. 18 MR. GENTRY: Do you understand that 19 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 20 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 21 of the Commission's report? 22 MR. SINCLAIR: Yes, sir. 23 MR. GENTRY: Have you reviewed the 24 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 25 MR. SINCLAIR: Yes, sir. 0157 1 MR. GENTRY: As a follow-up, are you 2 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 3 rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and upon 4 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 5 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 6 MR. SINCLAIR: Yes, sir. 7 MR. GENTRY: I would note that the 8 Upstate Citizens Committee reported that 9 Mr. Sinclair is well qualified for each of the nine 10 evaluative criteria. In addition, the Committee 11 states, "The Committee has received nothing but 12 positive comments and information about 13 Mr. Sinclair." 14 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 15 comments or questions. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Does 17 any member of the Commission have a question? 18 Representative Mack. 19 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Thank you, 20 Mr. Chairman. 21 I just want to make a comment. I 22 served with Mr. Sinclair, and he's a quality guy, 23 and I look forward to him serving on the bench. 24 And the one thing you can say about serving in the 25 House and that body, anything that could test your 0158 1 temperament, that would be it, and he is an 2 excellent -- excellent guy. 3 MR. SINCLAIR: Thank you. 4 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll remember that 5 from the senator. 6 All right. Is there anything further? 7 Well, this concludes that portion of 8 our screening process. As you know, the record 9 will remain open until we publish the report. So 10 you potentially could be called back if the need 11 arises. I know of nothing that is outstanding at 12 this point. 13 Again, let me remind you of the 48-hour 14 rule and ask you to be mindful of that, so mindful 15 that if this Committee reports you out and then 16 there is an inquiry from an advocate for or against 17 you, that you would remind them of the 48-hour rule 18 for us. We would appreciate it. 19 With that, thank you for offering, and 20 you're free to go. 21 MR. SINCLAIR: Thank you, Senator. 22 Thank you. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 24 (Candidate excused.) 25 (Off the record.) 0159 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: We've got before us 2 The Honorable Usha J. Bridges who is offering for 3 the Family Court, Seventh Circuit, Seat Number 3. 4 And with that, if you'd be so kind as 5 to raise your right hand. 6 (Candidate sworn.) 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 8 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 9 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 10 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 11 evaluative criteria and has included a survey of 12 the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 13 application materials, a verification of your 14 compliance with state ethics laws, a search of 15 newspaper articles in which your name appears, a 16 study of previous screenings, and a check for 17 economic conflicts of interest. 18 We have received no affidavits filed in 19 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 20 present to testify. 21 So I'd ask you if you wish to make an 22 opening statement. It's purely optional. The 23 procedure is that we're going to have staff counsel 24 ask you a few questions. At the conclusion of that 25 we'll see if the commissioners have any, and if 0160 1 not, that will conclude the hearing. 2 JUDGE BRIDGES: Thank you. And I just 3 want to say I appreciate you all allowing me to be 4 here today, and I look forward to answering your 5 questions and being as open and honest as possible. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 7 Please answer staff counsel's 8 questions. 9 MS. WELLS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 10 Judge Bridges, you have before you your 11 personal data questionnaire and the amendments to 12 that that you submitted as part of your 13 application. Were there any additional amendments 14 besides what you've already submitted that you 15 wanted to make? 16 JUDGE BRIDGES: No. 17 MS. WELLS: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 18 that Judge Bridges' personal data questionnaire and 19 amendment be entered as an exhibit into the hearing 20 record. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: I'm sorry. Without 22 objection, so ordered. 23 (EXH. 23, Personal Data Questionnaire 24 and Amendment of Ms. Usha J. Bridges, admitted.) 25 MS. WELLS: Judge Bridges, you have 0161 1 before you the sworn statement and amendment you 2 provided with detailed answers to over 30 questions 3 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 4 qualifications, office administration, and 5 temperament. Are there any additional amendments 6 to that statement that you want to make at this 7 time? 8 JUDGE BRIDGES: No, there are not. 9 MS. WELLS: At this time, Mr. Chairman, 10 I would ask that Judge Bridges' sworn statement and 11 amendment be entered as an exhibit into the hearing 12 record. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 14 so ordered. 15 (EXH. 24, Sworn Statement of Usha J. 16 Bridges, admitted.) 17 MS. WELLS: And as a final procedural 18 matter, I note for the record that based on the 19 testimony contained in Judge Bridges' PDQ which has 20 been included in the record with her consent, Judge 21 Bridges meets the statutory requirements for this 22 position regarding age, residence, and years of 23 practice. 24 For the record, Judge Bridges, please 25 state the city and the circuit where you reside. 0162 1 JUDGE BRIDGES: Gaffney, Seventh 2 Circuit. 3 MS. WELLS: Thank you. 4 Judge Bridges, would you please tell 5 the members of the Commission why you want to serve 6 as a Family Court judge. 7 JUDGE BRIDGES: Okay. Basically I -- 8 I've based my life on setting goals for myself, and 9 approximately ten to 12 years ago after practicing 10 in the Family Court for a while I decided that I 11 wanted to be a Family Court judge, and part of the 12 reason for that was because I wanted to make a 13 difference in the lives of individuals. 14 I've practiced in Circuit Court, 15 Municipal Court and the Family Court, and I see an 16 opportunity with the Family Court to make a 17 difference in the lives of children, and I 18 understand the importance of the decisions that are 19 made as far as the lives of adults are concerned. 20 And I basically started out working -- 21 working on my own, didn't have a lot. I want to be 22 an example to other individuals to show that hard 23 work and honesty can get you to where you're trying 24 to go. And I do believe in setting goals for 25 myself, and this is one that I set for myself, and 0163 1 so I was just looking forward to being an asset to 2 the legal profession as a -- as a judge. 3 MS. WELLS: Judge Bridges, would you 4 tell the Commission what you think from your legal 5 and professional experience thus far would assist 6 you to be an effective Family Court judge. 7 JUDGE BRIDGES: I certainly will. I -- 8 when I was in law school, one area of law that I 9 did not want to practice was family law. I did not 10 want to do domestic law, but as chance would have 11 it, I got a contract with the city of Gaffney to be 12 a -- with the county to be a juvenile public 13 defender. In that regards, I got an opportunity to 14 be at the Family Court. 15 I also as a condition of my contract 16 represented the juvenile delinquents in Cherokee 17 County. I also represent the volunteer guardian ad 18 litem in the abuse and neglect in Cherokee County, 19 so I was able to see -- sometimes my clients would 20 overlap. I'd have the -- the -- the children who 21 had been abused and neglected would be my children 22 that I see as -- for delinquents. I developed a 23 practice as far as the family law area dealing 24 with -- with those areas. So I feel like I have a 25 lot of experience in the Family Court. 0164 1 I actually think I do about 70 to 80 2 percent of the Family Court law in Cherokee County. 3 So everybody is like, "If you go to the bench, what 4 are we going to do?" But hopefully the other 5 lawyers out there will be able to fill the -- the 6 void. 7 But I've enjoyed working in the Family 8 Court. I've enjoyed actually feeling that I made 9 the difference in a lot of young individuals, and 10 so I look forward to doing that in a different 11 position at this time. 12 MS. WELLS: Are there any areas, 13 including subjective areas of law, that you would 14 need to additionally prepare for in order to serve 15 as a Family Court judge and how would you handle 16 that additional preparation? 17 JUDGE BRIDGES: I feel that with the 18 amount of work that I've done that I am qualified 19 at this time to handle the areas of law, but I am 20 mindful of the fact that the law changes. I'm also 21 mindful of the fact that I don't know everything, 22 and so I do -- as I've had to do in my practice, I 23 do utilize research tools. I read. I try to stay 24 abreast on the advance sheets. I try to stay on 25 what's going on with the law. 0165 1 I do have good rapport with -- with the 2 local bar and just not only Gaffney, but 3 Spartanburg also so that we can disclose things, 4 because, like I said, the law is not black and 5 white. It's changing, so I understand the 6 importance of staying informed and attending CLEs 7 and being aware of what's going on. 8 MS. WELLS: Thank you. 9 Although you address this in your sworn 10 affidavit, Judge Bridges, could you explain to the 11 members of the Commission what you think is the 12 appropriate demeanor of a judge. 13 JUDGE BRIDGES: I think a judge has to 14 be courteous. I think a judge has to be 15 knowledgeable. I think that we have to be mindful 16 of the fact that sometimes we'll have to make tough 17 decisions, but we need to do it in a manner that's 18 fair and we need -- as impartial as possible to -- 19 to carry on our responsibilities. 20 MS. WELLS: Thank you. 21 What suggestions would you offer for 22 improving the backlog of cases that exist currently 23 in Family Court? 24 JUDGE BRIDGES: One thing that has -- 25 that has helped me in my circuit -- I'm in Cherokee 0166 1 County. We're a small town, and actually our 2 numbers are really great as far as the backlog of 3 cases, and that's because our current Family Court 4 judge that we have is not afraid of work. And so 5 basically I would do what's necessary as far as 6 putting in the time that's necessary to make sure 7 that -- that -- and I want to see that the legacy 8 that he has set forth continues. 9 Currently as the juvenile public 10 defender, we have ten pending cases. We've gone 11 from over a hundred pending cases to down to ten 12 pending cases because we -- we are addressing the 13 cases. We're not just continuing the cases. We're 14 moving the cases, disposing of the cases. Cases 15 that need to be disposed are being disposed of. 16 I'm not opposed to working on Friday 17 afternoons. When I started my practice, I started 18 out, like I said, by myself. I had to work until 19 after five o'clock on Fridays. I had to come in 20 and work on Saturdays sometimes. And currently 21 being that I am a -- an attorney, part-time 22 municipal judge, my part-time municipal judge 23 requires me to work every other weekend, so I'm 24 used to working long hours. 25 Last Friday afternoon -- I had to work 0167 1 last Friday afternoon. I've been told as of this 2 morning I have a case that's being put on the 3 docket for this Friday afternoon. So I believe in 4 doing what's necessary to get the job done. I'm a 5 mother of five. I'm a full-time mother of five. I 6 have five great grandchildren. I'm not afraid of 7 work. I come from hard working people. 8 MS. WELLS: Thank you. 9 Judge Bridges, you mentioned in your 10 personal data questionnaire about defaulting in 11 your student loans in the 1980s and also about a 12 lien on your property in I believe 2000 or 2001. 13 Would you please explain to the Commission members 14 the circumstances that led to these problems and 15 what you have done to ensure that these types of 16 problems would not occur if you were elected to the 17 Family Court. 18 JUDGE BRIDGES: I'd like to note that 19 it was in the 1980s. It was prior to me ever going 20 to law school. And it was during a time I was 21 having financial difficulties in my life. 22 The tax lien was a $152 tax lien that 23 was placed on our property. It was a time that my 24 husband and I were having problems. I wasn't going 25 to pay the $152 and he wasn't going to pay it, so 0168 1 neither one of us were going to pay it until the 2 government said, "Oh, yes, you're going to pay it." 3 So we paid that $152. 4 Now, as far my student loan, I think 5 that was in 1985. I wasn't employed. I didn't 6 have any income, so I didn't have the moneys to pay 7 it. But it was for $1,385 and it was taken care of 8 back in 1985 or '86 after I became employed. 9 And one of the things that I do now is 10 I'm very mindful of paying my debts, and so I did 11 try to make sure that I fulfill my financial 12 obligations. And I did go from zero income to 13 having a very lucrative income now and so I do take 14 pride in paying my bills. 15 MS. WELLS: Thank you, Judge Bridges. 16 Would you tell the Commission what your 17 personal philosophy is about how pro se litigants 18 should be handled in a Family Court. 19 JUDGE BRIDGES: I just had a case last 20 Thursday, a contested case where actually the 21 plaintiff was pro se. She got rid of her attorney. 22 And I'm very mindful of the fact that pro se 23 litigants don't know all that we know, and I'm also 24 mindful of the fact that when they endeavor to 25 represent themselves, that they're to be held to 0169 1 the same standard that we were held to. 2 I did notice that the judge -- you 3 know, he probably was lenient with her as far as 4 things that she should have done or shouldn't have 5 done. And I would be mindful of that also. But I 6 think that when you undertake to do something, I 7 think you should do it, but I think as a judge we 8 have to be impartial. 9 My only advice to that person would be 10 "You probably need to do at least a consultation 11 with an attorney because you will be held to the 12 same standards as someone that is not represented," 13 because as a judge you can't -- you're not allowed 14 to give legal advice or give legal counsel other 15 than to tell them that they need to perhaps consult 16 with an attorney. 17 MS. WELLS: Thank you. 18 Just a few housekeeping issues. 19 Judge Bridges, have you sought or 20 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 21 date? 22 JUDGE BRIDGES: No, I have not. 23 MS. WELLS: Have you sought or have you 24 been offered a conditional pledge of support of any 25 legislator pending the outcome of your screening? 0170 1 JUDGE BRIDGES: I have not. 2 MS. WELLS: Have you asked any third 3 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 4 on your behalf? 5 JUDGE BRIDGES: I have not. 6 MS. WELLS: Have you contacted any 7 members of the Commission? 8 JUDGE BRIDGES: No, I have not. 9 MS. WELLS: Do you understand that you 10 are prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 11 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 12 Commission's report? 13 JUDGE BRIDGES: Yes, I understand. 14 MS. WELLS: Have you reviewed the 15 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 16 JUDGE BRIDGES: I certainly have. 17 MS. WELLS: And are you aware of the 18 penalties for violating the pledging rules, that 19 the penalties are misdemeanors, and upon 20 conviction, the violator must be fined not more 21 than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 22 JUDGE BRIDGES: Yes. 23 MS. WELLS: Mr. Chairman and members of 24 the Commission, I would note that the Upstate 25 Citizens Committee reported that Judge Bridges was 0171 1 qualified as to the Constitutional qualifications, 2 ethical fitness, character, physical health, and 3 mental stability. They reported her as well 4 qualified in the areas of her professional and 5 academic ability, reputation, experience, and 6 judicial temperament. 7 The Upstate Citizens Committee reported 8 that the Committee is extremely impressed with the 9 positive reputation of this candidate in her 10 community -- excuse me -- as well as the wealth of 11 experience she would bring to the Family Court 12 bench. As a public defender for the juveniles in 13 her county, the attorney for the GALs and DSS cases 14 and practicing in private cases she is highly 15 qualified to handle any type of case a Family Court 16 judge would be required to hear. 17 I would note for the record that any 18 concerns that were raised during the investigation 19 regarding Judge Bridges were incorporated in the 20 questioning of her today. 21 And I have no further questions. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 23 Does any member of the Commission? The 24 senator from Lexington. 25 SENATOR KNOTTS: Judge Bridges, could 0172 1 you tell me your philosophy on the -- on the way 2 you handle dead beat dads or child support payments 3 for most of the people that are -- get behind by 4 one or two, three, four, five payments, something 5 like that and the one that gets behind that owes 6 maybe 50, $60,000 that has been being looking for 7 ten or 12 years or six years or two years? 8 JUDGE BRIDGES: Senator Knotts, I -- I 9 think that child support belongs to the children, 10 and I feel that parents have an obligation to 11 support the children. 12 Having said that, I do understand the 13 economic times that we're going through, that we're 14 currently enduring. And so I feel that as a judge 15 it would be my responsibility to inquire of the 16 matter to try to determine why this person is in 17 arrears, and once that determination is made, I 18 think I need to act accordingly. 19 And having said that, if it's just 20 because they're just bucking the system and not 21 paying, then, I mean, we have a place for them. 22 But if there are really reasons that the child 23 support has not been paid, I think we have an 24 obligation to look into that and try to see what 25 assistance is available. 0173 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 2 questions? 3 Well, thank you also for your comments 4 on your work ethic. I note the senator from 5 Lexington probably enjoyed that also. 6 JUDGE BRIDGES: All right. Thank you, 7 sir. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. This 9 concludes this portion of our screening process. 10 As you know, the record will remain open until the 11 report is published, and you may be called back at 12 such time as the need arises. I know of no 13 outstanding matters. 14 Also want to remind you of the 48-hour 15 rule and ask you to be very mindful of that. In 16 fact, if anyone inquires about whether they may or 17 may not advocate for you in the event this 18 Committee should report you out, we'd appreciate it 19 if you would remind them of the 48-hour rule. 20 With that, thank you for offering, and 21 have a great afternoon. 22 JUDGE BRIDGES: Thank you. Thank you 23 very much. 24 (Candidate excused.) 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: Before we go to the 0174 1 next candidate, staff needs to inform us of a -- of 2 a legal matter that we need to handle in executive 3 session, so do I hear a motion to go into -- 4 SENATOR KNOTTS: So moved. 5 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Second. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: So moved and 7 seconded. All in favor please raise your right 8 hand. 9 Are you voting a proxy also? 10 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Let the record show 12 it was a unanimous vote of the Commission to go 13 into executive session. 14 And if you would, Sergeant, please 15 secure the chambers. 16 (The members went into executive 17 session at 2:45 p.m.) 18 * * * * * 19 (The members returned to open session 20 2:59 p.m.) 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: Sergeant, please 22 publish in the halls we're in open session. 23 (Off the record.) 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll go back on 25 the record at this point. We have just lifted the 0175 1 veil from the executive session, and for the record 2 Commission has taken no formal actions in executive 3 session. There's no formal action to follow up in 4 open session. 5 We are now moving -- we have before us 6 Ms. Catherine Carr Christophillis who is offering 7 for Family Court, Thirteenth Circuit, Seat Number 8 2. 9 And before we proceed, do you have any 10 guests you wish to introduce to the Commission? 11 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Yes, I do. I have 12 my husband Constantine Christophillis, who -- we've 13 been married for 31 years and he's also a fellow 14 attorney in Greenville. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: Glad to have you 16 with us. 17 MR. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Thank you, sir. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Would you raise 19 your right hand. 20 (Candidate sworn.) 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 22 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 23 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquiries 24 focus on our nine evaluative criteria, and it's 25 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 0176 1 thorough study of your application materials, a 2 verification of your compliance with state ethics 3 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 4 name appears, a study of previous screenings, and a 5 check for economic conflicts of interest. 6 We have received no affidavits filed in 7 opposition to your election, and there are no 8 witnesses present to testify. 9 I would ask you if you have any brief 10 opening statements you would like to make. It's 11 purely optional. The procedure we follow is 12 counsel will ask you the questions. At the 13 conclusion of those questions if the commissioners 14 have any questions, they will follow up at that 15 point and we will wrap up the hearing. 16 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Thank you. I 17 would just like to say I'm happy to be here and I'm 18 glad to answer any questions that anyone might have 19 for me. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: Please answer 21 counsel's questions. 22 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Thank you. 23 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman and members 24 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 25 to take up with regard to Ms. Christophillis. 0177 1 Ms. Christophillis, you have before you 2 the personal data questionnaire you submitted as 3 part of your application and your amendment. Are 4 there any additional amendments you'd like to make 5 at this time to your PDQ? 6 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No, there are not. 7 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 8 ask that Ms. Christophillis's personal data 9 questionnaire and amendment be entered as an 10 exhibit into the hearing record. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 12 so ordered. 13 (EXH. 25, Personal Data Questionnaire 14 and Amendment of Ms. Catherine C. Christophillis, 15 admitted.) 16 MR. GENTRY: You also have before you a 17 sworn statement you provided with detailed answers 18 to over 30 questions regarding judicial conduct, 19 statutory qualifications, office administration, 20 and temperament. Are there any additional 21 amendments that you you'd like to make at this time 22 to your sworn statement? 23 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No, they are not. 24 MR. GENTRY: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 25 ask that the sworn statement be entered into the 0178 1 exhibit -- into the hearing. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 3 objection, so ordered. 4 (EXH. 26, Sworn Statement of Catherine 5 C. Christophillis, admitted.) 6 MR. GENTRY: One final procedural 7 matter. I note for the record that based on the 8 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ which 9 has been included in record with the candidate's 10 consent, the candidate meets the statutory 11 requirements for this position regarding age, 12 residence, and years of practice. 13 Ms. Christophillis, please specify the 14 city and the circuit of your residency. 15 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Greenville, and 16 it's the Family Court, Seat Number 2, and the 17 Thirteenth Circuit. 18 MR. GENTRY: Why do you want to serve 19 as a Family Court judge? 20 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: For me personally 21 there could be no higher honor than to serve the 22 citizens of my state as a Family Court judge. I've 23 been practicing law in -- in South Carolina for 31 24 years. 12 of those have been as a prosecutor, and 25 I handled child abuse and neglect cases, elder 0179 1 abuse cases, as well as domestic violence. For the 2 last 19 years I've been in private practice, and 3 I've handled cases of divorce and separation, 4 adoption, dealing with issues of equitable division 5 of property, alimony and child support, child 6 custody cases, name change cases. 7 I've also served many, many times, and 8 as a court appointed guardian ad litem for abused 9 and neglected children, as well as children in 10 private divorce actions that need a guardian ad 11 litem. I also have been trained as a Family Court 12 mediator since the early '90s and as an arbitrator. 13 As well as that experience, I've been active in the 14 legislative process dealing with the homicide by 15 child abuse statute, the child fatality statute, 16 and amendments to the child abuse neglect code of 17 1996. 18 I've had the opportunity to testify 19 here in Columbia on different pieces of legislation 20 involving children and families, as well as in 21 Congress in Washington. I've served as many 22 appointments for -- that deal with family issues, 23 the child fatalities commission. 24 Oh, gosh. I know y'all don't want me 25 to repeat that whole thing. 0180 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: No. We heard you. 2 We just wanted to make sure it was clear. 3 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: All right. I knew 4 something was wrong. Thank you. 5 And I have trained people on the -- in 6 every county of South Carolina on the issues of 7 drug apparent infants, as well as elder abuse. 8 And also my husband and I have been 9 married 31 years and have three children, all in 10 their 20s, and have been very active in our 11 community and I've served on many boards in our 12 community, as well as involved in our church. And 13 I believe all of that experience would qualify me 14 to serve as a Family Court judge in Greenville. 15 MR. GENTRY: Are there any areas, 16 including subjective areas of law, that you would 17 need to additionally prepare for and if -- how 18 would you go about that additional preparation? 19 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: I don't believe in 20 my 31 years of experience that I would need 21 anything specifically. However, I would know that 22 I would want to be trained and sit side by side 23 with other sitting Family Court judges for whatever 24 period of time would allow me to -- to be behind 25 the bench and work with them, as well as to attend 0181 1 any CLEs or training in ethical matters or anything 2 pertaining to the law that would benefit me as a 3 Family Court judge. 4 MR. GENTRY: Although you addressed 5 this in your sworn affidavit, can you please 6 explain to the members of the Commission what you 7 think is the appropriate demeanor of a judge. 8 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: A judge should be 9 patient, should be tactful and courteous to all 10 that come before them, including lawyers and 11 litigants, witnesses, staff. They should be 12 understanding as well as compassionate, and believe 13 beyond all to show an extreme amount of humility. 14 MR. GENTRY: What suggestions, if any, 15 would you offer for improving the backlog of cases 16 on the docket in Family Court? 17 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: I have quite a few 18 things I would like to see happen. Firstly, I 19 would like to implement an order for status 20 hearings in contested cases. Right now we don't 21 have a written order, but I'm working with another 22 court in Laurens County where they have a written 23 order -- they have to have a status hearing after 24 90 days from a temporary hearing, and at that 25 status hearing -- before the status hearing 0182 1 actually you have to present within 48 hours prior 2 a written statement of all the witnesses, all the 3 financial documents that you need, if there's any 4 legal -- difficult matters that need to be taken up 5 prior to going to court. 6 All of the things that should be 7 exchanged in discovery prior to court are actually 8 in the order so that -- actually tomorrow morning I 9 have a hearing in Laurens where we present all that 10 information to a judge to hopefully cut down on 11 the -- the time and hours necessary in a contested 12 hearing. 13 I think that a temporary hearing to 14 also appoint in appropriate cases a guardian ad 15 litem to represent children and have the reports 16 coming back within 45, 60 or 90 days. Have a -- 17 order, as I said, status hearings. I think also 18 you can continue with mediation. And I would 19 establish a committee to study the use of 20 arbitration boards in Family Court cases, 21 particularly when there's issues of personal 22 property division or identifying what's nonmarital 23 or marital property and assessing value. I think 24 we're -- we're underutilizing the arbitration. 25 I'm also quite interested in 0183 1 establishing a drug court in Family Court in 2 Greenville dealing with juveniles that are charged 3 with crimes, as well as people that find themselves 4 accused of child abuse and neglect. So often those 5 cases are underwritten by abuse of alcohol and 6 drugs. 7 When I was with the Attorney General's 8 Office, I had an opportunity to tour the drug 9 court -- first drug court in the United States in 10 Miami. And I came back with all that information 11 and ideas and trained some other jurisdictions in 12 Family Court, and they are assisting Family Court 13 drug courts, but there's not one in Greenville. 14 And I'm really, really interested and -- and hoping 15 that I if elected would be able to establish that. 16 I think that would have a tremendous affect on our 17 docket. 18 MR. GENTRY: Thank you, 19 Ms. Christophillis. 20 Have you sought or received the pledge 21 of any legislator prior to this date? 22 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No. 23 MR. GENTRY: Have you sought or have 24 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 25 any legislator pending the outcome of your 0184 1 screening? 2 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No. 3 MR. GENTRY: Have you asked any third 4 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 5 on your behalf? 6 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No. 7 MR. GENTRY: Have you contacted any 8 members of the Commission? 9 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: No, I have not 10 contacted until Senator Nicholson was just 11 appointed I believe October 29th to the Commission. 12 Earlier -- after I sent the application, I sent a 13 general letter to all the members that are not on 14 the Commission, and I believe he did receive one. 15 However, at that time I did not know he was on the 16 Commission. Other than that, the answer to that 17 would be no. 18 MR. GENTRY: Do you understand that 19 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 20 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 21 of the Commission's report? 22 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Yes. 23 MR. GENTRY: Have you reviewed the 24 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 25 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Yes. 0185 1 MR. GENTRY: As a follow-up, are you 2 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 3 rules, that is, it's a misdemeanor and upon 4 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 5 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 6 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Yes. 7 MR. GENTRY: I would note that the 8 Upstate Citizens Committee reported the candidate 9 is well qualified for each of the nine evaluative 10 criteria. 11 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 12 comments or questions. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. See if 14 any members of the Committee have a question. Are 15 there any questions? 16 Then this concludes this portion of our 17 screening process. As you know, the record will 18 remain open until the report is published and you 19 may be called back as such time as the need arises. 20 Again, I want to remind you about the 21 48-hour rule and ask you to be mindful of that, so 22 mindful of that if this Commission should report 23 you out and you should be contacted by an advocate, 24 that you tell them -- or remind them of the 48-hour 25 rule for us, please. 0186 1 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Thank you. I 2 will. 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: And with that, we 4 thank you for offering, and this concludes it. 5 Have a nice day. 6 MS. CHRISTOPHILLIS: Thank you so much. 7 (Candidate excused.) 8 (Off the record.) 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 10 go back on the record at this time. And we've got 11 before us, Mr. Harry L. -- is it Don Phillips? 12 MR. PHILLIPS: Yeah, I go by Don. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. 14 Mr. Phillips, pleasure to have you with us this 15 afternoon. 16 If you'd raise your right hand, please, 17 sir. 18 (Candidate sworn.) 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 20 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 21 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 22 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 23 evaluative criteria, and it has included a survey 24 of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 25 application materials, verification of your 0187 1 compliance with state ethics laws, search of 2 newspaper articles in which your name appears, a 3 study of previous screenings, if any, and a check 4 for economic conflicts of interest. 5 We have received no affidavits filed in 6 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 7 present to testify. 8 So you are welcome to make a brief 9 opening statement if you wish. It's purely 10 optional. The procedure we follow is counsel will 11 ask you a series of questions. At the conclusion 12 of those questions we'll see if any Commission has 13 any, and we'll wrap up the hearing accordingly 14 after that. 15 MR. PHILLIPS: I don't know that I have 16 any opening statement. I'm proud to be here. 17 Everybody has been very cooperative. The staff on 18 the admissions process has been very good and 19 professional, and I'm glad to be here. So I'm 20 ready to proceed. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right, sir. 22 Counsel. 23 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you, 24 Mr. Chairman. 25 Mr. Chairman and members of the 0188 1 Commission, I have a few procedural matters. 2 Mr. Phillips, you have before you the 3 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 4 of your application and your amendment to question 5 number 49 of the PDQ. Are there any additional 6 amendments that you would like to make at this 7 time? 8 MR. PHILLIPS: No. 9 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman, I would 10 like to ask that Mr. Phillips' personal data 11 questionnaire and his amendment be entered as an 12 exhibit into the hearing record. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 14 so ordered. 15 (EXH. 27, Personal Data Questionnaire 16 and Amendment of Mr. Harry L. "Don" Phillips, Jr., 17 admitted.) 18 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Phillips, you also 19 have before you the sworn statement you provided 20 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 21 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 22 qualifications, office administration, and 23 temperament. Are there any amendments you would 24 like to make to that at this time? 25 MR. PHILLIPS: No. 0189 1 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman, I would 2 like to ask that Mr. Phillips' sworn statement 3 and -- I'm sorry, be entered into record at this 4 time. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Is 6 there objection? Being none, so ordered. 7 (EXH. 28, Sworn Statement of Harry L. 8 Phillips, Jr.--"Don," admitted.) 9 MS. GOLDSMITH: One final procedural 10 matter. I note for the record that based on the 11 testimony contained in Mr. Phillips' PDQ which has 12 been included in the record with his consent, 13 Mr. Phillips meets the statutory requirements for 14 this position regarding age, residence, and years 15 of practice. 16 Mr. Phillips, would you please state 17 for the record the city and judicial circuit in 18 which you reside. 19 MR. PHILLIPS: I reside in Greenville, 20 South Carolina. It's the Thirteenth Judicial 21 Circuit. 22 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 23 Why do you want to serve as a Family 24 Court judge? 25 MR. PHILLIPS: I have served -- I have 0190 1 practiced for 19 years, and the majority of that 2 has been in the Family Court. The past eight years 3 I've been a counselor for the Department of Social 4 Services where I've been involved in all sorts of 5 matters, child abuse and neglect and adult abuse 6 and neglect cases, and before that I practiced in 7 divorce and custody law, and I see this as an 8 extension of my practice. 9 I've -- and since I've been on both 10 sides of these cases -- and I just enjoy the Family 11 Court. You deal with all people with all sorts of 12 walks of life, rich people, poor people, rural, 13 urban, and I enjoy getting and helping get through 14 the crisis that led them to come to Family Court in 15 the first place, other than adoptions which is one 16 of the happy things that goes on down there. 17 But I've enjoyed Family Court. I like 18 travelling around. If the budget ever improves, 19 maybe the judge will get to travel around a little 20 more. I like going to rural counties and urban 21 counties and get to travel around. Hopefully I'll 22 get to do that, but I just enjoyed Family Court and 23 I would really like to serve out the rest of my 24 time, however long that would be, on the bench. 25 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Phillips, can you 0191 1 explain to the Commission how you feel your legal 2 and professional experience thus far will assist 3 you in being an effective judge. 4 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, I had the fortune 5 of working with some really good lawyers, some of 6 the top people since I've practiced law, and my 7 beginning career was in Common Pleas, and we had -- 8 the firm I was with had some really topnotch 9 litigators. And I proceeded on to a smaller firm 10 where again we were engaged in all sorts of 11 practice in family law and litigation. And I've 12 been at DSS where I've had the institutional side 13 of the practice for eight years now, and we've also 14 worked with some DJJ cases that we have gotten 15 involved with. 16 So I think all of those things will 17 help me be a -- be a good judge, and -- and all 18 these experiences would -- that I'm hoping will 19 have built on it and enable me to be fair and do a 20 good job. 21 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 22 Are there any areas, including 23 subjective areas of law, that you would need to 24 additionally prepare for and how would you go about 25 that additional preparation? 0192 1 MR. PHILLIPS: My experience has been 2 primarily on the civil side. I have involvement 3 with the Department of Juvenile Justice, but mainly 4 with the kids of DSS that have gotten involved in 5 some criminal matters. I have not represented them 6 per se even though we had some foster care children 7 that have committed crimes and I've been involved 8 with that or have been taken into emergency 9 protective custody. 10 There's some good CLEs about the 11 criminal side of the practice that I intend to 12 avail myself of, and there's also some good 13 practitioners in Greenville that I deal with on a 14 regular basis that I intend to consult. But that 15 would probably be the area that I need to brush up 16 on the most. 17 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 18 Although you address this in your sworn 19 affidavit, could you please explain to the members 20 of the Commission what you think is the appropriate 21 demeanor for a judge. 22 MR. PHILLIPS: A demeanor for a judge, 23 you would need to be patient and respectful of all 24 the people that come before you, the represented 25 parties and the unrepresented. 0193 1 That being said, you are in charge of 2 the courtroom, and everyone in the courtroom, from 3 the court reporter to the deputies to the parties, 4 are all looking for you to be in charge of the 5 courtroom. There are rules that apply there that 6 don't apply to your life on the everyday street, 7 and as a judge you're responsible for enforcing 8 those laws and maintaining order in the courtroom 9 and making sure everyone abides by the rules there. 10 So you have to -- I'm not saying be 11 stern, but you have to be in control of your 12 courtroom, but be mindful of the people you're 13 dealing with and sometimes they're more 14 knowledgeable -- or less knowledgeable than some of 15 the experienced people in there. So that's the 16 demeanor I think a judge should have. 17 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Phillips, what 18 suggestions would you offer for improving the 19 backlog of cases on the docket in the Family Court? 20 MR. PHILLIPS: Well, there are 21 different kinds of cases. For the Social Services 22 cases, the institutional cases, the mediation I 23 think would be helpful in -- in that situation. We 24 have not really used it very much since I've been 25 at the Department of Social Services, but I think 0194 1 that would help move a lot of the contested cases 2 on through, and I think that would be something 3 that would be beneficial statewide. 4 As far as the private docket, I think 5 the mediation has helped, the mandatory mediation, 6 but also the use of some very short uncontested 7 dockets when we can move a lot of cases through or 8 designate days where we have just uncontested cases 9 right after another would be helpful to move some 10 of the backlog through. 11 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 12 Mr. Phillips, as you are aware, a bench 13 and bar survey was filed in response to your 14 candidacy for this Family Court seat. In that 15 survey an issue was raised concerning your current 16 work with DSS and a perceived potential bias you 17 might have towards the agency should you be elected 18 to the Family Court bench. Could you please 19 respond to that concern. 20 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. I thought about 21 that. I believe I could certainly be fair. Before 22 I came to work for DSS I represented families 23 that -- against DSS in an adversarial position that 24 had their children removed or DSS was trying to 25 have them do certain things. So I've been on both 0195 1 sides of the issue. Now, the last part of my 2 career has been with DSS, but I don't think that's 3 any different than solicitors who move on to 4 General Sessions or Common Pleas. 5 And if anything, I probably worry about 6 being a little harder on the state agencies than 7 otherwise because I -- I'm familiar with how they 8 operate, and if something is amiss, I have a pretty 9 good idea of what's going on. So I -- I worry a 10 little bit more about being biased against them and 11 would work very hard to make sure everybody meets 12 the burden of proof wherever it lies for that. 13 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 14 Have you sought or received a pledge of 15 any legislator prior to today? 16 MR. PHILLIPS: No. 17 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you sought or have 18 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 19 any legislator pending the outcome -- outcome of 20 your screening? 21 MR. PHILLIPS: No. 22 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you asked any 23 third parties to contact members of the General 24 Assembly on your behalf -- on your behalf? 25 MR. PHILLIPS: No, I have not. 0196 1 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you contacted any 2 members of the Commission? 3 MR. PHILLIPS: No. 4 MS. GOLDSMITH: Do you understand that 5 you are prohibited from seeking a pledge or 6 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 7 of the Commission's report? 8 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes, I understand. 9 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you reviewed the 10 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 11 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. 12 MS. GOLDSMITH: As a follow-up, are you 13 aware that the penalties for violating the pledging 14 rules are that it is a misdemeanor and upon 15 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 16 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 17 MR. PHILLIPS: Yes. 18 MS. GOLDSMITH: I would note that the 19 Upstate Citizens Committee found Mr. Phillips 20 qualified in the areas of Constitutional 21 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 22 academic ability, character, reputation, physical 23 health, mental stability, and experience. The 24 Committee found Mr. Phillips well qualified in the 25 category of judicial temperament. 0197 1 I would note for the record any 2 concerns raised during the investigation regarding 3 the candidate were incorporated into the 4 questioning of him today. 5 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 6 questions. 7 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 8 Does any member of the Commission have 9 a question? 10 All right. Then that will conclude 11 this portion of your screening process. As you 12 know, the record will remain open until the report 13 is published, and you could be called back at such 14 time if the need arises, not to indicate that 15 there's any outstanding questions. 16 Remind you of the 48-hour rule and ask 17 you to be very mindful of it. And if anyone 18 inquires with you about whether they may or may not 19 advocate for you in the event that this Commission 20 should report your name out, please remind them of 21 the 48-hour rule. 22 With that, we want to thank you for 23 offering, and have a nice day. 24 MR. PHILLIPS: Thank you. I enjoyed 25 it. Thank you. 0198 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 2 (Candidate excused.) 3 (Off the record.) 4 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll go back on 5 the record at this point, and we have before us 6 Mr. William Marsh Robertson who is offering for the 7 Family Court, Thirteenth Circuit, Seat Number 2. 8 Before I proceed forward, do you have 9 any guests you wish to introduce to the Commission? 10 We'd be happy -- 11 MR. ROBERTSON: I do. I'd like to 12 introduce my wife Barbara Robertson who is seated 13 behind me. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Glad to have you 15 with us today. 16 MRS. ROBERTSON: Thank you. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: If you would, raise 18 your right hand. 19 (Candidate sworn.) 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 21 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 22 your qualifications for the bench. Inquires 23 focused on our nine evaluative criteria. This 24 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 25 thorough study of your application materials, a 0199 1 verification of your compliance with state ethics 2 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 3 name appears, the study of any previous screenings, 4 if any, and a check for economic conflicts of 5 interest. 6 We received no affidavits filed in 7 opposition to your election, and no witnesses are 8 present to testify. 9 So I would ask you if you wish to make 10 any opening statement. It's purely optional. The 11 procedure is we're going to have counsel ask you a 12 series of questions. She finishes. We'll see if 13 the commissioners have any, and that -- we'd then 14 wrap up the hearing. 15 MR. ROBERTSON: Fair enough. And I 16 have no opening statement other than to thank the 17 Committee and the wonderful staff members for all 18 that you do for promoting the court system in this 19 state. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. And we 21 agree with you on your adjective. They are a 22 wonderful staff. 23 MR. ROBERTSON: Absolutely. 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, turn you 25 over to counsel. 0200 1 MS. WELLS: Mr. Chairman and members of 2 the Commission, I have a few procedural matters to 3 take care of with this candidate. 4 Mr. Robertson, you have before you the 5 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 6 of your application. Are there any amendments you 7 want to make at this time to this PDQ? 8 MR. ROBERTSON: No amendments at this 9 time. 10 MS. WELLS: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 11 ask that Mr. Robertson's personal data 12 questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the 13 hearing record, please. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 15 objection, so ordered. 16 (EXH. 29, Personal Data Questionnaire 17 of Mr. William Marsh Robertson, admitted.) 18 MS. WELLS: Mr. Robertson, you also 19 have before you the sworn statement you provided 20 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 21 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 22 qualifications, office administration, and 23 temperament. Are there any additional amendments 24 you would like to make at this time to your sworn 25 statement? 0201 1 MR. ROBERTSON: No. Thank you. 2 MS. WELLS: At this time, Mr. Chairman, 3 I would ask that Mr. Robertson's sworn statement be 4 entered into -- as an exhibit in -- in the hearing 5 record. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 7 objection, so ordered. 8 (EXH. 30, Sworn Statement of William 9 Marsh Robertson, admitted.) 10 MS. WELLS: Mr. Robertson, for the 11 record would you please state the city and judicial 12 circuit where you reside. 13 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes. Greenville, 14 Thirteenth Judicial Circuit. 15 MS. WELLS: Members of the Commission, 16 I note for the record that based on the testimony 17 contained in Mr. Robertson's PDQ which has been 18 included in the record with his consent, 19 Mr. Robertson meets the statutory requirements for 20 this position regarding age, residence, and years 21 of practice. 22 Mr. Robertson, would you please explain 23 to the members of the Commission why you want to 24 serve as a Family Court judge. 25 MR. ROBERTSON: I'd be happy to. For 0202 1 the past 20 years my career goal has been to become 2 a Family Court judge. I've devoted my entire legal 3 career for the most part to the practice of family 4 law. That's the only type of law I've practiced 5 for literally 20 years, and when you do something 6 that long and that intensely, you learn a lot of 7 things, and one of the things that I've learned is 8 just how incredibly important the job of Family 9 Court judge is. 10 These are men and women who make 11 decisions that impact and shape the lives of 12 families, of husbands and wives, of fathers and 13 mothers and most of them with children. And when 14 you have a job that's that important, I think it's 15 just tremendously important to have good judges sit 16 on the Family Court bench. 17 And as you spend 20 years in the family 18 courtrooms around the state, you learn to identify 19 the traits that separate the best judges in the 20 state from the ones that don't quite last at that 21 level. And it's -- and it's about intelligence and 22 experience, but it's also about professionalism, 23 temperament, and demeanor. And -- and it just -- 24 it's so important to have the right people in that 25 job. 0203 1 And I've also learned a lot about 2 myself, and I'm proud of what I've accomplished as 3 a trial lawyer in the family courts, as an advocate 4 in the adversarial scenario. But I've also spent a 5 lot of time, particularly in the last few years, 6 serving as a mediator, and I've thrived in that 7 role I believe. And I see myself just by the way 8 I'm wired more as a resolver than as an advocate, 9 and I think I would really do well in a Family 10 Court judge role. 11 I think I -- I can exhibit the traits 12 that I've talked about earlier that make the best 13 Family Court judges, and I honestly believe that if 14 I could somehow navigate this process and be 15 elected -- and win an election that I can perhaps 16 be one of the best judges in the state. I truly 17 believe that. 18 MS. WELLS: Mr. Robertson, are there 19 any areas, including subjective areas of the law, 20 you would need to additionally prepare for in order 21 to serve as a Family Court judge, and if so, how 22 would you handle that additional preparation? 23 MR. ROBERTSON: There are, and I've 24 already begun preparation. I -- obviously with 20 25 years experience in family courts, I've done quite 0204 1 a bit in terms of what a private practitioner does 2 with alimony and child support and child related 3 issues and financial related issues. 4 I have also -- what I have put in my 5 written materials is that I have limited experience 6 in DSS cases. I don't know that limited is 7 necessarily the right word because by comparison to 8 most attorneys I feel like I've got substantial 9 experience because in the early part of my career I 10 took DSS cases as a regular part of my practice, 11 and in recent years I have continued to take 12 appointments on an annual bases, usually one to two 13 cases per year. 14 And lawyers that get appointed have a 15 choice between handling those cases themselves or 16 sending them out. And I have handle those cases. 17 So I'm aware of the procedure and I feel familiar 18 with the law in DSS cases, but the best scenario is 19 that I can learn more about it. And I have studied 20 up on my own time, preparing for this test -- or 21 the test in this screening process. I've spent a 22 lot of time studying that. I've read the cases. 23 I've read the statutes. I've observed cases. 24 The other area -- and by the way, I 25 feel pretty confident that I could take the bench 0205 1 right now and be more than competent in DSS cases 2 both in terms of the child removal cases and child 3 support collection cases. 4 Now, I have not done much at all in 5 terms of Juvenile Justice, and those are cases that 6 are handled in Family Court, but I've always 7 considered those cases that are best handled by 8 criminal defense attorneys, so I've always referred 9 those cases to my colleagues on the criminal 10 defense bar. 11 But about three years ago when I made 12 the decision that it was time for me to seek a 13 Family Court judgeship, I recognized that a 14 gigantic part of what Family Court judges do is to 15 hear and determine Juvenile Justice cases. So I 16 began reading those cases, reading those statutes, 17 reading materials online that are available 18 regarding South Carolina law. 19 I have -- I have observed in court and 20 I've gotten permission from judges to let me sit in 21 their courtroom and watch those cases, and it's a 22 fascinating area of law that I feel like I would 23 have a high learning curve on, but it is an area 24 that I still have a ways to go. And if elected, I 25 would certainly be attending seminars both in -- 0206 1 live and distance learning. I'd become better 2 acquainted with that and I'd also sit in some 3 courtrooms even more so that by the time I take the 4 bench I would be more than just a competent judge 5 to hear those cases. 6 MS. WELLS: Mr. Robertson, could you 7 explain to the members of the Commission what you 8 think is the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 9 MR. ROBERTSON: Yeah, I'd be happy to. 10 It's sort of a balancing act. An appropriate 11 demeanor requires some degree of firmness but also 12 patience. It requires open mindedness and 13 compassion but also decisiveness. 14 I have said many times that the judges 15 whose demeanor I admire the most in my experience 16 are those judges who have sort of an innate ability 17 to make the people in the courtroom, everyone in 18 the courtroom, litigants, attorneys, deputy 19 sheriff, court reporters, to make those people as 20 comfortable as reasonably can be expected given the 21 uncomfortable circumstances that bring them there. 22 MS. WELLS: You've noted in your PDQ 23 that you are a member in the American Academy of 24 Matrimonial Lawyers. Would you please explain to 25 the Commission what this organization is and what 0207 1 does an attorney have to do to become a member. 2 MR. ROBERTSON: Certainly. The 3 American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers is a 4 national organization consisting I believe of 5 somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,600 Family Court 6 practitioners. There are currently I believe 26 7 lawyers in the South Carolina chapter, and I am 8 honored and flattered to be one of those 26. These 9 are by my estimation the very best Family Court 10 practitioners in the state of South Carolina. 11 Becoming a fellow is -- is no small 12 ordeal. It requires a screening process that is 13 certainly equal in thoroughness to what we go 14 through in this process. There is screening 15 requiring recommendations from many attorneys who 16 you've practiced with and against in court. You 17 have to have the recommendations of a large number 18 of Family Court judges who you have practiced 19 before. You have to pass testing, very rigorous 20 testing on the state level and on a national level, 21 and the subject matter of those tests are some of 22 the most difficult areas, the most complex areas of 23 family law that we deal with. 24 And I believe -- I'm proud of attaining 25 membership. I'm proud of what I've done as a 0208 1 fellow, and I believe that my experience with the 2 academy would serve me well if elected to the 3 bench. 4 MS. WELLS: Thank you, Mr. Robertson. 5 What suggestions would you offer for 6 improving the backlog of cases that exist on the 7 docket in most family courts? 8 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, first and 9 foremost, I am a champion of mediation. I 10 mentioned before that I've served as a mediator. 11 Greenville County, I don't know, somewhere maybe 12 five to ten years ago was made a pilot program for 13 mandatory mediation in every Family Court case with 14 any contested issue. And what that means is that 15 if you have a contested case as a lawyer, you're 16 not going to be allowed to request a final hearing 17 for your client until you can certify that you've 18 attempted mediation and it's failed or succeeded, 19 in which case you can get an agreement hearing. 20 Now, when I -- when Greenville was 21 being discussed as a potential pilot program, I was 22 against it. My feeling was that good lawyers 23 settle cases and I'm a good lawyer and I get my 24 cases settled, and if I want to bring a third wheel 25 into it, I'll ask. I was wrong, and I've been 0209 1 proven wrong. And I realized that very, very 2 quickly as I watched how quickly -- how effective 3 mediation was in Greenville County, both in terms 4 of the percentage of cases that were settling -- 5 those percentages went up significantly -- but more 6 importantly where the cases were settled, the time 7 frame in which they were settled. 8 Cases instead of settling last minute 9 and still take up all that court docket time were 10 settling at a time earlier in the case. That's a 11 wonderful thing for the clients because they're not 12 having to pay their attorneys to take -- to prepare 13 a case for trial and go to trial. It's a great 14 thing for the docket because these cases are being 15 cleared out. And it's worked wondered. 16 And I -- and in answer to your 17 question, I would -- I would speak to Justice Toal 18 and anybody else who would listen that this pilot 19 program has worked so well in Greenville County it 20 needs to be taken statewide, and the sooner, the 21 better. I'm sure there are plenty of attorneys 22 around the state who -- who aren't comfortable with 23 that like I wasn't, and I don't -- I think they're 24 going to realize like I did that they're just wrong 25 when they see how -- how much faster their case is 0210 1 getting called to trial. 2 Greenville County has -- we -- I think 3 we have more cases filed in the county than any 4 other county in the state by a significant margin, 5 and because of that and because of we've had very 6 creative hands-on judges who have been willing to 7 attack the problem with creating solutions, we have 8 come up with a lot of things that I would like to 9 see go statewide. 10 The agreement docket is -- is a 11 wonderful tool. The agreement docket means if you 12 file a case and you -- if I file a case and settle 13 it tomorrow, I can sign my name -- my case name 14 onto a list and we can be in court in three weeks 15 to put that case to bed so that there's a client 16 who doesn't have to wait a year to get -- to move 17 on to get a final order and move on with their life 18 and there is a case that's on and off the docket 19 very quickly. That should be taken statewide. 20 It -- it's worked wonders. 21 I'm a proponent of the rocket docket 22 which is -- which is a system where if you have a 23 no fault divorce with no other issue except 24 divorce, most counties schedule those for 15 25 minutes. In Greenville we schedule those cases for 0211 1 five, either two every 15 minutes or three. And it 2 works, and that's a lot of time opening up. 3 Got a lot of ideas that I would look 4 forward to the opportunity to promote if -- if I'm 5 given the opportunity. 6 MS. WELLS: Mr. Robertson, what is your 7 philosophy about pro se litigants? How would you 8 handle them in a Family Court situation? 9 MR. ROBERTSON: Well, I certainly 10 appreciate and respect the right of any citizen to 11 represent himself or herself in court and -- and 12 would do all I could to make that litigant feel 13 comfortable in the process. Now, I could not -- 14 I'm duty bound not to do anything that would give 15 that litigant -- that pro se litigant some sort of 16 favoritism or legal advantage by the fact that they 17 didn't hire a lawyer any more than I would -- than 18 I would be able to give the person who did have a 19 lawyer an advantage or favoritism. 20 But in certain circumstances I could 21 envision a scenario where maybe it would be 22 appropriate to maybe not hold that litigant to such 23 a strenuous -- to be so strenuous when it comes to 24 procedural or legal formalities that may not touch 25 on the ultimate merits of the case if doing so 0212 1 would, you know, promote the ends of justice 2 without prejudice to the other party. 3 MS. WELLS: Thank you. I have a few 4 housekeeping issues. 5 Have you sought or received the pledge 6 of any legislator prior to this date? 7 MR. ROBERTSON: No, I have not. 8 MS. WELLS: Have you sought or have you 9 been offered a conditional pledge of support of any 10 legislator pending the outcome of your screening? 11 MR. ROBERTSON: No, I have not. 12 MS. WELLS: Have you asked any third 13 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 14 on your behalf? 15 MR. ROBERTSON: No. 16 MS. WELLS: Have you contacted any 17 members of this Commission? 18 MR. ROBERTSON: No, I have not. 19 MS. WELLS: Do you understand that 20 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 21 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 22 of the Commission's report? 23 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes, I understand that. 24 MS. WELLS: Have you reviewed the 25 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 0213 1 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes, I have. 2 MS. WELLS: Are you aware that the 3 penalties for violating the pledging rule is a 4 misdemeanor and upon conviction the violator must 5 be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not 6 more than 90 days? 7 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes, I'm aware of that. 8 MS. WELLS: Mr. Chairman and members of 9 the Commission, I would note that the Upstate 10 Citizens Committee found that Mr. Robertson is well 11 qualified for each of the nine evaluative -- nine 12 evaluative criteria: Constitutional 13 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 14 academic ability, character, reputation, physical 15 health, mentality stability, experience, and 16 judicial temperament. 17 I would also note that any concerns 18 raised during the investigation of Mr. Robertson 19 were incorporated in the questioning of him today. 20 And I have no further questions. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Does 22 any member of the Commission have a question? If 23 not, this concludes this portion of our screening 24 process. 25 As you know, the record will remain 0214 1 open until the report is published, and of course 2 that means you could be called back at such time if 3 there were some question. I know of no outstanding 4 issues or questions for you at this time. 5 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: I would also like 7 to again remind you about the 48-hour rule and ask 8 you to be very mindful of it, so mindful that if 9 anyone inquires with you about whether they may or 10 may not advocate for you in the event that you're 11 screened out of this Committee, please remind them 12 of the 48-hour rule. 13 MR. ROBERTSON: Yes, sir. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: And with that, we 15 thank you for offering, and have a great afternoon. 16 MR. ROBERTSON: Thank you. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Pleasure having 18 both of you with us. 19 MR. ROBERTSON: Thank you. 20 (Candidate excused.) 21 (Off the record.) 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 23 go back on the record. I apologize, had to take 24 some messages. 25 Before us The Honorable Michael Don 0215 1 Stokes who is offering for Family Court, Thirteenth 2 Circuit, Seat Number 2. 3 If you'd be kind enough to raise your 4 right hand, please, sir. 5 (Candidate sworn.) 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 7 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 8 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquiries 9 focused on our nine evaluative criteria and has 10 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 11 thorough study of your application materials, a 12 verification of your compliance with state ethics 13 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 14 name appears, a study of previous screenings, and a 15 check for economic conflicts of interest. 16 We have received no affidavits filed in 17 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 18 present to testify. 19 I'd ask you if wish to make any opening 20 statement, which is purely optional. The procedure 21 that we follow is that counsel will ask you a 22 series of questions. At the conclusion of that 23 we'll see if any commissioners have anything they 24 wish to ask, and that will wrap up the hearing. 25 JUDGE STOKES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 0216 1 I'll waive an opening statement. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 3 Please answer counsel's questions. 4 JUDGE STOKES: Yes. 5 MS. BENSON: Judge Stokes, you have 6 before you your personal data questionnaire that 7 you submitted as part of your application. Is 8 there any amendment that you would make at this 9 time to that personal data questionnaire? 10 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 11 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 12 Mr. Chairman, I would ask that Judge 13 Stokes' personal data questionnaire be submitted as 14 part of the record. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 16 objection, so ordered. 17 (EXH. 31, Personal Data Questionnaire 18 of Mr. Michael Don Stokes, admitted.) 19 MS. BENSON: Judge Stokes, you now have 20 before you the sworn statement that you provided 21 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 22 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 23 qualifications, office administration, and 24 temperament. Is there any amendment that you have 25 to that statement? 0217 1 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 2 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 3 At this time, Mr. Chairman, I'd ask 4 that Judge Stokes' sworn statement be entered as an 5 exhibit into the record. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 7 so ordered. 8 (EXH. 32, Sworn Statement of Michael 9 Don Stokes, admitted.) 10 MS. BENSON: Mr. Chairman, I would note 11 also for the record that with the material 12 submitted by Judge Stokes, he meets the statutory 13 requirements for this position regarding age, 14 residence, and years of practice. 15 Judge Stokes, since you're a candidate 16 for the Family -- for a Family Court judgeship, 17 would you please state the city and the judicial 18 circuit in which you reside. 19 JUDGE STOKES: My address is Taylor, 20 South Carolina, which is unincorporated, but it's 21 Greenville County, Thirteenth Circuit. 22 MS. BENSON: Thank you. 23 Judge Stokes, why do you want to be a 24 Family Court judge? 25 JUDGE STOKES: Family law has been my 0218 1 preferable area of practice in my almost 20 years. 2 I have served on -- within two weeks 13 on the 3 magistrate's bench. I enjoy the judicial aspect of 4 it. It is an opening that allows me to continue 5 the judicial aspect in the area of law which is my 6 preference. 7 Secondly, I believe that the Family 8 Court is the court where you can offer more 9 assistance to people than any other court and not 10 making them seem unimportant or less important. 11 It's just an area that I'm really interested in, 12 particularly with youth. I'm in Boy Scouts and all 13 that stuff for over 30 years, and I think you could 14 make a better difference there that I could in 15 Circuit Court or somewhere else. 16 MS. BENSON: How has your previous 17 experience lent itself to make you an effective 18 court -- Family Court judge, and what areas would 19 you need to have additional preparation? 20 JUDGE STOKES: Additional preparation 21 would be more the -- the DJJ type cases. I've done 22 quite a few of the DSS type cases. I have never 23 done a DJJ case. However, obviously I've done 24 quite a bit of criminal, both as a defense attorney 25 and obviously as a magistrate. So it's -- the 0219 1 substantive law doesn't bother me. 2 The procedure I would want to brush up 3 on. I've studied it obviously in preparation for 4 the test. I think I understand it. It's just I 5 haven't been able to handle a case for DJJ. If I 6 have a chance and knew I was going, I would like 7 to -- before I took the bench I'd like to sort of 8 shadow a day or two to get a feel for it. I think 9 that would be a good thing to do. 10 MS. BENSON: Judge Stokes, as a lead-in 11 for my next question, I'd like to mention some 12 reports that we have had about you. The South 13 Carolina Bar's Judicial Qualifications Committee 14 found you qualified in all the categories accept 15 that they did find you well qualified in the 16 category of ethical fitness. Overall they gave you 17 a qualified rating. 18 The Upstate Citizens Committee reported 19 that you were qualified in each of the nine 20 evaluative criteria. That Committee also had a 21 note attached to the report. "The Committee has 22 again been given numerous comments regarding this 23 candidate's temperament. As a sitting magistrate 24 it has been said that he has at times been rude and 25 overbearing. The candidate responded during our 0220 1 interview that he could not understand why we were 2 receiving these types of comments. He contends 3 that he has never had any issue with his 4 temperament." 5 Judge Stokes, could you tell the 6 Commission what you perceive is the proper demeanor 7 for a judge. 8 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am. A judge is 9 going to have to be the one who listens, calm, 10 collective, easy going. The -- the biggest thing 11 to remember is -- with these cases -- and 12 fortunately what I've learned over the years is 13 these folks is going to make them remember how I 14 made them feel much longer than actually what I 15 ruled. 16 And many times if you -- what they're 17 really seeking is an opportunity to be heard which 18 is due process and to give them the time to be 19 heard. Be polite to them. You know, let them -- 20 let them finish their sentences. Don't -- don't 21 cut them off. Have some sympathy. They're nervous 22 as a cat just like I am right now, and, you know, 23 don't, you know, make them feel humiliated. 24 They -- they're obviously under stress 25 and you don't want to do anything that makes that 0221 1 any worse. Just a little bit of kindness, you 2 know, just -- I am a Boy Scout. And I hate to play 3 that card, but since I was eight years old I swore 4 to be kind to people, and I try to be kind to 5 people. You still have to keep control of the 6 courtroom, though. 7 MS. BENSON: Do you have any -- any 8 more specific response to the comments that were 9 made by the Citizens Committee? 10 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am. I have 11 served for over ten years on the magistrate's bench 12 before any of this was brought to my attention. I 13 think I was in my fourth appointment. It is not in 14 my nature to be rude or overbearing to anybody. 15 I've seen intemperate behavior. I don't want to be 16 included in that. 17 What I have done in response to that is 18 I have pulled out -- obviously anything I say is on 19 tape. I went back and pulled 20 or 25 of the tapes 20 from my former hearings trying to glean something 21 from them that I could improve myself, making sure 22 that I was giving people the opportunity to say 23 everything they needed to say or wanted to say but 24 being kind and businesslike with them. 25 I've told other judges, other attorneys 0222 1 that frequently appear before me. They had really 2 no complaints or comments about -- about my 3 demeanor. They thought it was good. I'm gladdened 4 by the fact, though, the bar has investigated me, 5 and I specifically asked my bar screening folks 6 about temperament, and they had nothing in their 7 file that even gave them cause to actually ask me 8 about it. I brought it up. 9 Like I said, my four appointments went 10 through very -- very smoothly. I was always 11 appointed by Senator Verne Smith. He -- during the 12 time I have been on the bench, two magistrates 13 weren't doing satisfactory work and he had no 14 problem putting them into other professions. He -- 15 he had no concerns about me. 16 The chief magistrate for Greenville 17 County is supporting me in this, and I actually 18 pulled a -- an e-mail that -- her kind words to -- 19 to sort of gird me up today and said I was a great 20 judge and thought I would be great on Family Court 21 and un -- unrestricted praise from Judge Gay was 22 rare, so I sort of took that to heart. 23 The last time I was before the 24 Commission the Commission looked at my whole 25 record, found that my temperament was -- would be 0223 1 excellent, that I had a lot of patience. Part of 2 that is probably due to my experience with my 3 children and all that, that I have to have 4 patience. I had to learn patience with special 5 needs children. This Commission found that I had 6 excellent temperament looking at my whole record. 7 And, lastly, in Greenville I'm 8 entrusted with the -- the hearing of the Codes 9 Court which is probably the most emotional part of 10 a court that the magistrate system would have in 11 which we're telling people that we can -- you do 12 this with your property that you own or you cannot 13 do this with your property that you own, and we 14 have people who are mad when they get there. And 15 most of them we settle down. They haven't thought 16 that the junk cars could cause rats and stuff like 17 that. They haven't thought about it. 18 You've got a certain amount of folks 19 that no matter what we say or do, they're not going 20 to be satisfied. 21 I was on that rotation. They rotated 22 me off at my request. It didn't go so well, so, 23 "Would you go back?" 24 "Yes, ma'am, I'll go back." And I 25 think that is the biggest indicator in the 0224 1 confidence that the chief judge of our county has 2 of my temperament that I run that court without 3 issue. 4 MS. BENSON: Judge, if you were elected 5 to the Family Court bench, what would you like your 6 legacy as a Family Court judge to be? 7 JUDGE STOKES: Above all else that he 8 was fair. Above all else that irregardless of who 9 you were or what you were you got a fair hearing, 10 that you received due process, that he accurately 11 applied the law, and he had a shred of human 12 decency in doing all that. I would be satisfied if 13 that's what I could leave behind. 14 MS. BENSON: Are there any 15 recommendations that you would make concerning the 16 backlog in Family Court? 17 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am, I have -- 18 have two. One of them is not original and one is. 19 The first one is to do the uncontested docket in a 20 way that Greenville has traditionally done it and 21 take it statewide. You just simply sign up and you 22 have like a rapid fire -- it runs a lot like a 23 traffic court. You just get in line. 24 My second one is a little bit unique 25 and probably takes it into my magistrate 0225 1 background. Many of you know, because you passed 2 the legislation to enable this, we have transfer 3 court for General Sessions in which some of the 4 lesser penalties are transferred -- or transferred 5 to a magistrate to dispose of, particularly DUI 6 seconds, very -- very common. 7 I would suggest that there be a pilot 8 program done. Use the same magistrates because 9 there is 300 odd magistrates in this state. I'm 10 not going to tell you that I don't have additional 11 time that would not hurt my magistrate docket at 12 all if I were pulled out for two, three days a 13 month, and put in some kind of transfer court for 14 Family Court and which, if nothing else, we handle 15 uncontested divorces, maybe even temporary 16 hearings. 17 And it would have to be probably to 18 comply with all -- it would have to be like 19 transfer court. The attorneys or the parties would 20 have to agree to it, but particularly with 21 uncontested divorces and matters routine like that, 22 if it moved along quickly -- quickly, I think most 23 attorneys, particularly if they were comfortable 24 with the magistrates, would be glad do that and 25 move their cases on. 0226 1 MS. BENSON: Thank you, Judge. 2 JUDGE STOKES: That's my original 3 suggestion. 4 MS. BENSON: Just a few housekeeping 5 issues. 6 For -- for this race, have you sought 7 or received the pledge of any legislator prior to 8 this date? 9 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 10 MS. BENSON: Have you sought or have 11 you been offered a conditional pledge of support by 12 any legislator pending the outcome of this 13 screening? 14 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 15 MS. BENSON: Have you asked any third 16 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 17 on your behalf? 18 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 19 MS. BENSON: Excuse me. Have you 20 contacted any members of the Commission? 21 JUDGE STOKES: No, ma'am. 22 MS. BENSON: Do you understand that 23 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge for 48 24 hours prior to the issuance of the -- of the 25 report? 0227 1 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am. 2 MS. BENSON: Have you reviewed the 3 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 4 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. BENSON: And are you aware that the 6 penalty for violating those pledging guidelines is 7 a misdemeanor and upon conviction that you could be 8 fined not more than a thousand dollars and 9 imprisoned not more than 90 days? 10 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, ma'am. 11 MS. BENSON: Mr. Chairman, I'd note for 12 the record that any concerns raised during the 13 investigation have been incorporated in the 14 questioning. 15 And I have no further questions. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, ma'am. 17 At this point I'll see if any of the 18 commissioners have any questions. Are there any 19 questions? The senator from Lexington. 20 SENATOR KNOTTS: Judge Stokes, you said 21 you did a survey. How -- how did you conduct that 22 survey? 23 JUDGE STOKES: Of myself? 24 SENATOR KNOTTS: Yeah. 25 JUDGE STOKES: I just went to my office 0228 1 and pulled my tapes and listened to them 2 periodically and informally asked some other judges 3 if they had heard anything bad about me for 4 temperament or anything of that nature. It was 5 very informal, but I wanted to see what others were 6 hearing. 7 SENATOR KNOTTS: Okay. You didn't do 8 any written surveys or anonymous -- 9 JUDGE STOKES: Oh, no, sir. I was -- 10 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- or people that have 11 actually appeared before you, like law 12 enforcement -- 13 JUDGE STOKES: No, sir. 14 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- or lawyers? 15 JUDGE STOKES: No, sir. It was all 16 informal. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Representative 18 Mack. 19 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Thank you, 20 Mr. Chairman. 21 Judge Stokes, I was curious, when you 22 were playing back your tapes, how much -- 23 approximately how much time did you listen to of 24 yourself? 25 JUDGE STOKES: I just pulled -- I 0229 1 really didn't keep a count of it. It was 20 to 25 2 and I pulled them at random. Some of them were 3 nothing but an eviction. It might last ten 4 minutes. Other -- two or three of them were 5 summons and complaints. 6 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Just generally do 7 you have a -- 8 JUDGE STOKES: Total time? 9 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Yeah, just 10 generally, just ballpark if you were to guess. 11 JUDGE STOKES: Probably all total -- I 12 didn't do it all at once -- four to five hours 13 worth. 14 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: Okay. And you 15 couldn't find anything that you would at the very 16 least do better or do differently in listening to 17 yourself? 18 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. We've always 19 got room for improvement. I have to -- to catch 20 myself in reminding that it is a lay court, to sort 21 of relax the Rules of Evidence. I tend to -- 22 hearsay bothers me a lot, but when you're having 23 pro se cases, hearsay is rampant. I have to be 24 careful there. I explain that hearsay -- sometimes 25 I just rule on it, and they don't understand why I 0230 1 did that. 2 Also one thing that I do -- that gave 3 myself pause was I tend to give a justification of 4 why I ruled like I do, and I sort of just rattle it 5 off. 6 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: But you couldn't 7 find anything -- I do -- I do talk radio -- 8 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. 9 REPRESENTATIVE MACK: -- and it pains 10 me sometimes to listen to myself because I find 11 things that I would say differently or respond to 12 differently because one tends to be self-critical 13 of themselves. And I'm curious with -- we've got 14 here numerous -- numerous -- and I -- numerous 15 complaints rude and overbearing, and you could find 16 anything in terms of listening back on your -- 17 JUDGE STOKES: I -- I needed to talk 18 slower. I come off as clipped sometimes, and it 19 sounds like I am irritated when I'm perhaps not. 20 So I just need to draw out my speeches. I think 21 it's probably my biggest problem that I'm doing 22 that. But, no, I think I am pretty kind and fair 23 to others. 24 But I suspect most of my complaints are 25 coming from the Codes Court. That is the biggest 0231 1 place where I'm seen outside of my home community. 2 And I don't think there's anything in my home 3 community that was the least -- 4 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Could you say that 5 again. The what court? 6 JUDGE STOKES: The Codes Court. 7 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Could you explain 8 what you mean by that. 9 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. In Greenville 10 County we consolidate all the building codes, annal 11 codes of the county ordinances and move them to one 12 court, and the I'm judge who handles those for the 13 whole county. And that's where this gentleman has 14 four junk cards in his yard and it's in violation 15 of the code and he gets a ticket for it, and, you 16 know, I have to -- to pass the sentence based on 17 the violation of that. We call it Codes Court. 18 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE STOKES: And that is -- that is 20 where I suspect -- and that is a problematic court. 21 You're telling people what to do with their 22 property. They do not like it. I would not like 23 folks telling me what to do with my property, but 24 needless to say, that is the way it does. 25 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 0232 1 Lexington. 2 SENATOR KNOTTS: Let me ask you this. 3 Do you think the complaints that have been received 4 that we're talking to you about is coming from the 5 citizens or coming from the lawyers or coming from 6 the law enforcement? 7 JUDGE STOKES: It's coming from -- 8 from -- from citizens, nothing from the -- the bar 9 had no -- no complaints whatsoever, and I have a 10 real good relationship with law enforcement. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Mr. Harrell. 12 MR. HARRELL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 13 Judge Stokes -- 14 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. 15 MR. HARRELL: -- in your survey when 16 you pulled the tapes, how did you know which tapes 17 to pull? 18 JUDGE STOKES: I didn't. Random. I 19 just went to the boxes. I wouldn't even know which 20 one it was when I picked it up. 21 MR. HARRELL: And -- and those -- the 22 random tapes that you listened to for four or five 23 hours, those are the ones that didn't contain any 24 temperament issues? 25 JUDGE STOKES: No, sir. They were 0233 1 uneventful cases. 2 MR. HARRELL: And the citizens that 3 might be the most likely people who are making the 4 complaints, do you know -- do you have an idea of 5 which ones they might be, like specifically -- 6 JUDGE STOKES: I have no clue who they 7 talked to. Didn't give me specifics. 8 MR. HARRELL: Like specifically would 9 you know which citizens would know that there was a 10 committee that they could send numerous comments 11 to? 12 JUDGE STOKES: No, sir. 13 MR. HARRELL: Thank you. 14 JUDGE STOKES: The -- I'm assuming 15 the -- the Citizens Committee started calling 16 folks. I do know they talked to former Judge 17 Warner who was for ten or 12 years the judge right 18 next to me. He reports he gave them all favorable 19 information. Other than Judge Warner, I don't know 20 who they spoke to, and they did not give me any 21 specifics. 22 MR. HARRELL: But these would be 23 citizens that were aware that there was a Committee 24 that they could send comments to? Is -- 25 JUDGE STOKES: I would be afraid to say 0234 1 that, Mr. Harrell. I don't know whether -- whether 2 they were contacted from members of the Citizens 3 Committee or they read in some publication. They 4 did not tell me. 5 MR. HARRELL: Thank you, Judge Stokes. 6 SENATOR KNOTTS: One more question, 7 Mr. Chairman. 8 JUDGE STOKES: And I've got no -- I got 9 no specific examples of what I was doing either. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 11 Lexington. 12 SENATOR KNOTTS: One more question. 13 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. 14 SENATOR KNOTTS: The tapes you said you 15 pulled them at random -- 16 JUDGE STOKES: Yes. 17 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- and that was tapes 18 of -- tapes of all types of cases that you -- 19 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. I primarily 20 hear civil cases except for the code enforcement 21 cases. 22 SENATOR KNOTTS: Well, you just stated 23 that you believe the majority of the complaints 24 were coming from your code -- code court. 25 JUDGE STOKES: That's my suspicion, 0235 1 yes, sir. 2 SENATOR KNOTTS: Why didn't you pull 3 just the code court then if you knew where the 4 complaints were coming -- why didn't you just pull 5 the code court and see if -- how you were reacting 6 to that -- 7 JUDGE STOKES: I did pull -- 8 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- instead of pulling 9 cases that you know -- that you didn't feel the 10 complaint was coming from? 11 JUDGE STOKES: I just did a random 12 survey. I did pull one of the code court -- 13 SENATOR KNOTTS: One? 14 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. And I would 15 look -- not look in the box. I would pull them 16 blind. And one of them was a code court for animal 17 control. Uneventful -- uneventful hearing. Most 18 of them were pleas. 19 SENATOR KNOTTS: Well, if you knew 20 it -- if you feel in your heart the majority of the 21 complaints that you were getting and criticism you 22 were getting is coming from the code enforcement, 23 why wouldn't you pull the code enforcement to find 24 out if -- you know, how the majority of those -- I 25 mean, it's sort of like a stacked deck. 0236 1 If I know I've got a problem and I pull 2 the wrong issue out of a different set of people, 3 then I don't have a problem. But if I really want 4 to find the problem, I'll go to where I think the 5 problem is and find out what my problem is if I'm 6 really interested in finding a problem and 7 correcting a problem. 8 JUDGE STOKES: Senator, I just pulled 9 tapes. I did speak to the folks at the codes who 10 have handled it. They think I'm the best judge 11 they've ever had down there. 12 SENATOR KNOTTS: Maybe because you're 13 pro law enforcement. 14 JUDGE STOKES: I find a lot of them not 15 guilty. 16 SENATOR KNOTTS: Okay. 17 JUDGE STOKES: So I don't -- I don't 18 think they would charge me with that. 19 SENATOR KNOTTS: And I'm -- I'm retired 20 law enforcement -- 21 JUDGE STOKES: I understand. 22 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- so I'm not 23 criticizing you -- 24 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. 25 SENATOR KNOTTS: -- you know. 0237 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any further 2 questions from the commissioners? 3 This concludes the screening portion of 4 our process. As you know, the record will remain 5 open until the record is published, and you may be 6 called back at such time if the need arises. 7 I want to remind you again of the 8 48-hour rule and ask you to be very mindful of 9 that, so mindful that if anyone inquires of you 10 about whether they may or may not advocate for you 11 that -- in the event that you are screened out, 12 please remind them of the 48-hour rule. 13 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: And with that, we 15 thank you for offering, and we also thank you for 16 your service of the people of South Carolina. 17 JUDGE STOKES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Have a good day, 19 sir. 20 JUDGE STOKES: Yes, sir. 21 (Candidate excused.) 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: And this concludes 23 this section of candidates. Before we proceed to 24 the next, would you prefer to go in and have any 25 comment? 0238 1 SENATOR KNOTTS: So moved. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. The 3 senator from Lexington moves that we go into 4 executive session for purposes of discussion. It's 5 been seconded. Before we go, any discussion? 6 There being none, all in favor of going 7 into executive session please raise your right 8 hand. Thank you. Are you including -- thank you. 9 Opposed by a like sign. Proxies? 10 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: With the proxy that 12 is a unanimous vote of the entire Commission to go 13 into executive session. 14 Sergeant, if you would, clear the 15 chambers and secure the doors. 16 (The members went into executive 17 session at 4:07 p.m.) 18 * * * * * 19 (The members returned to open session 20 at 4:15p.m.) 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: We're back on the 22 record. 23 No formal action was taken in executive 24 session by the Commission. 25 We are now in open session, and before 0239 1 we move to the next hearings, what is the pleasure 2 of the Commission regarding the hearing we had on 3 Mr. Phillip Sinclair for Family Court, Seventh 4 Judicial Circuit, Seat 1? 5 SENATOR KNOTTS: I move that he be 6 qualified and nominated. 7 REPRESENTATIVE CLEMMONS: Second. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Any 9 discussion? There being no discussion, we will 10 proceed to a vote. 11 And if you will, call out for purposes 12 of the record. 13 MS. SHULER: Phillip Sinclair, raise 14 your -- 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: So you find him 16 qualified and nominated would be the question 17 before the body. 18 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 19 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 20 Representative Delleney. 21 And you're voting Ms. McLester's proxy. 22 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 23 MS. SHULER: Senator McConnell, Senator 24 Knotts, Professor Freeman, Representative Mack, and 25 Mr. Sellers. So that is ten votes for qualified 0240 1 and nominated. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Moving 3 next to the Family Court, Seventh Judicial Circuit, 4 Seat Number 3. We have Judge Bridges. The 5 question before the body is qualification and 6 nomination. 7 MR. SELLERS: I move that we find her 8 qualified and nominated. 9 SENATOR KNOTTS: Second. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: Sellers moved. 11 Seconded by the senator from Lexington. 12 The floor is open for any discussion. 13 There being no discussion, we'll go into a vote. 14 All in favor please raise your right 15 hand so we can record the vote. 16 MS. SHULER: Mr. Sellers, 17 Representative Mack, Professor Freeman, Senator 18 Knotts, Senator McConnell, Representative Delleney 19 with Ms. McLester's proxy, Representative Clemmons, 20 Mr. Harrell, and Senator Nicholson. So that is ten 21 for qualified and nominated. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 23 move now to the Family Court, Thirteenth Circuit, 24 Seat Number 2. We have four candidates. By 25 statute we only can nominate three. The first 0241 1 question would be -- before the body would be 2 qualifications. 3 The senator from Lexington. 4 SENATOR KNOTTS: I make a motion that 5 they all four be qualified. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: The motion is all 7 four be found qualified. 8 MR. SELLERS: Second. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: Mr. Sellers 10 seconds. 11 The floor is now open for discussion. 12 There being no discussion, we'll go to a vote. 13 All in favor please raise your right 14 hand. 15 MS. SHULER: Mr. Sellers, 16 Representative Mack, Professor Freeman, Senator 17 Knotts, Senator McConnell, Representative Delleney 18 with Ms. McLester's proxy, Representative Clemmons, 19 Mr. Harrell, and Senator Nicholson. So that is ten 20 for qualified. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 22 All right. The next question before us 23 will be nomination, and it's been the procedure of 24 this Commission to call the names out and the 25 members may vote. You can vote three times. Only 0242 1 three times. 2 First we have Ms. Catherine 3 Christophillis. All who wish to nominate her 4 please raise your right hand. 5 MS. SHULER: Mr. Sellers, 6 Representative Mack, Professor Freeman, Senator 7 Knotts, Senator McConnell, Representative Delleney 8 with Ms. McLester's proxy, Representative Clemmons, 9 Mr. Harrell, and Senator Nicholson. So that is ten 10 votes for qualified and nominated. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: Next we have 12 Mr. Harry Don Phillips. All in favor of nomination 13 please raise your right hand. 14 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 15 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 16 Representative Delleney. 17 Are you voting Ms. McLester's proxy? 18 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: (Nods head.) 19 MS. SHULER: Senator McConnell, Senator 20 Knotts, Professor Freeman, Representative Mack, and 21 Mr. Sellers. So that is ten qualified and 22 nominated. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 24 Next would be Mr. William Marsh 25 Robertson. Those nominating him would please raise 0243 1 their right hand. 2 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 3 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 4 Representative Delleney with Ms. McLester's proxy, 5 Senator McConnell, Senator Knotts, Professor 6 Freeman, Representative Mack, and Mr. Sellers. So 7 that is ten votes. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: And that is all the 9 votes that are available -- 10 MS. SHULER: Right. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: -- so we would 12 be -- no further -- 13 MS. SHULER: Zero for Mr. Stokes. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: No one has any 15 further votes they can cast. 16 All right. That completes that. 17 MS. SHULER: Everybody can give Laurie 18 your vote sheets. 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: Sign your vote 20 sheets. 21 Why don't we take just a five minute 22 break before we get started. 23 (A recess transpired.) 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 25 go back on the record now. 0244 1 And we have before us The Honorable 2 David Glenn Guyton who is offering for Family 3 Court, Sixteenth Circuit, Seat Number 2. 4 Before we begin, do you have anybody 5 here you wish to introduce to the Commission? 6 JUDGE GUYTON: Yes, sir. I would like 7 to introduce my wife Crystal Guyton who is over 8 here to my left. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Glad to 10 have you with us today. 11 With that, would you raise your right 12 hand, please, sir. 13 (Candidate sworn.) 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: The Judicial Merit 15 Selection Commission has thoroughly investigated 16 your qualifications for the bench. Our inquiry has 17 focused on nine evaluative criteria and has 18 included a survey of the bench and the bar, a 19 thorough study of your application materials, 20 verification of your compliance with state ethics 21 laws, a search of newspaper articles in which your 22 name appears, a study of previous screenings, if 23 any, and a check for economic conflicts of 24 interest. 25 We have received one affidavit filed in 0245 1 opposition to your election. One witness is 2 present to testify, Mr. Thomas McDow, IV. I 3 pronounced his name correctly I hope. 4 And I would ask you if you have any 5 brief opening statement you wish to make at this 6 time. The procedure will be -- and that's purely 7 optional on your behalf. We will proceed to 8 counsel and they'll have questions for you. At the 9 conclusion of all of the testimony the 10 commissioners behind each witness may have 11 questions depending on whether or not they 12 considered staff has covered them or brought 13 something to their attention they wish to ask 14 about. That's basically how the procedure goes. 15 JUDGE GUYTON: Okay. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: So with that, we'll 17 first start with you, and I'll turn you over to 18 counsel for some questions, unless you had an 19 opening statement. 20 JUDGE GUYTON: I had prepared an 21 opening statement, but it would -- and I intend for 22 it to be brief, but if you would prefer to go ahead 23 without that. 24 SENATOR McCONNELL: If you wish to give 25 your statement, feel free to do that. 0246 1 JUDGE GUYTON: I did. And I already 2 made mention that my wife Crystal is here with me. 3 She is an educator with the Rock Hill school 4 district. She is a principal. I have two 5 children, Caleb, 13, and Hannah, age five, who we 6 adopted at birth. I also served as a foster parent 7 for a young man for about seven and a half months. 8 Been practicing law for 21 years. 18 of those 9 years have been in Family Court. That's my primary 10 area of practice. 11 Ms. Shuler had also indicated that it 12 would be appropriate for me to make an oral 13 amendment to my PDQ paragraph number eight which is 14 simply that instead of May 18th, 1987, as the year 15 that I was licensed to practice, it's 1988. And I 16 do note that I had it corrected in a separate 17 paragraph. That was just a clerical error. 18 I'm a partner with Harrelson, Hayes and 19 Guyton in Rock Hill. I've been an associate city 20 court judge for the city of Rock Hill since 1999. 21 I'm a lieutenant colonel in the South Carolina Army 22 National Guard, currently serving as the state 23 military judge presiding over special court 24 martials. I'm a Marine Corps veteran of the Gulf 25 War. I was a captain at JAG serving as a trial 0247 1 counsel. I do have a top secret clearance. I am 2 subject to annual drug testing. 3 I'm involved deeply in numerous 4 community activities with the church, veteran, 5 legal activities. I've served as a guardian ad 6 litem, auxiliary probation officer. I've been on 7 the Commission on Lawyer Conduct for over ten 8 years. I do pro bono work, and also work with the 9 legal assistants to military personnel. And I'm on 10 the Children's Attention Home Charter School Board 11 in Rock Hill and the Rock Hill School District 12 Education Foundation. Just a few examples of my 13 involvement in the community. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 15 Please answer counsel's questions. 16 MS. SHULER: Good afternoon, 17 Mr. Guyton. 18 JUDGE GUYTON: Good afternoon. 19 MS. SHULER: You have before you the 20 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 21 of your application and your amendment to question 22 number 40. You also just made an oral amendment to 23 the record to PDQ number eight. Are there any 24 other additional amendments that you have to your 25 PDQ? 0248 1 JUDGE GUYTON: I do not believe so. 2 MS. SHULER: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 3 that Mr. Guyton's PDQ and amendment be entered into 4 the record at this time as an exhibit. 5 SENATOR McCONNELL: Is there any 6 objection? There being none, so ordered. 7 (EXH. 33, Personal Data Questionnaire 8 and Amendment of Mr. David Glenn Guyton, admitted.) 9 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, you have 10 before you the sworn statement you provided with 11 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 12 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 13 administration, and temperament. Are there any 14 amendments you would like to make at this time to 15 the sworn statement? 16 JUDGE GUYTON: There are none. 17 MS. SHULER: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 18 that Judge Guyton's sworn statement be entered into 19 the record as an exhibit at this time. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any objection by 21 any member of the Commission? There being none, so 22 ordered. 23 (EXH. 34, Sworn Statement of David 24 Glenn Guyton, admitted.) 25 MS. SHULER: One final procedural 0249 1 matter. I note for the record that Judge Guyton 2 meets the statutory requirements for this position 3 regarding age, residence, and years of practice. 4 Judge Guyton, would you please state 5 for the record the city and the judicial circuit in 6 which you reside. 7 JUDGE GUYTON: In the city of Rock 8 Hill. It is the Sixteenth Judicial Circuit. 9 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 10 Judge Guyton, after practicing law for 11 21 years, as well as serving as an associate city 12 court judge for the city of Rock Hill since 1999, 13 as well as serving as a South Carolina National 14 Guard military judge since 2008, why do you now 15 want to serve as a Family Court judge? 16 JUDGE GUYTON: I have been asked by 17 several fellow attorneys and sitting judges to 18 consider seeking this Family Court position. I 19 think I have a reputation for being -- being fair 20 and working to see families work through a very 21 difficult process in Family Court in as fair a 22 manner as possible. 23 And this is a very painful time in 24 their lives, and I think during my 18 years of 25 practice in this court that I have been able to put 0250 1 families through these difficult situations in a 2 positive manner. I think I have the trust of my 3 fellow attorneys and judges. I have a strong work 4 ethic. I am considered to be patient and 5 courteous. I'm ready to assume the duty of Family 6 Court. 7 As I've said in my sworn statement, I 8 am both fearful and respectful of this awesome 9 responsibility that a Family Court judge has, and I 10 see it as one of great public service. 11 MS. SHULER: I think you have alluded 12 to this, but is there anything in your legal or 13 professional experience that you have not already 14 explained to the Commission that would help prepare 15 you to serve as a Family Court judge? 16 JUDGE GUYTON: I think again in 17 alluding to those in my opening statement, it's my 18 deep involvement in so many activities in the 19 community, and also adopting a child, having that 20 perspective in Family Court, taking in a young man 21 for seven and a half months with legal and physical 22 custody in our family that gives me another 23 significant perspective. And I think that I in my 24 practice have been involved with DSS, juveniles and 25 I have been on both sides of the aisle, many, many 0251 1 times. 2 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, although you 3 address this in your sworn affidavit, would you 4 explain to the members of the Commission what you 5 believe to be the appropriate demeanor of a judge. 6 JUDGE GUYTON: I think a judge has to 7 be courteous and very even tempered, and in Family 8 Court, especially, it is a highly emotional court 9 and the judge has to have what I consider kind of a 10 quiet control over the courtroom. 11 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 12 Judge Guyton, what suggestions would 13 you offer for improving the backlog of cases in the 14 Family Court? 15 JUDGE GUYTON: I believe that the 365 16 day order that is currently in effect has helped a 17 great deal in our backlog. Certainly in York 18 County it is being reduced, and I would continue to 19 pay attention to that. Our current judge, Judge 20 Woods, has a once a month docket meeting to make 21 sure that those cases are being moved along or 22 otherwise dismissed. 23 I would pay particular attention to 24 calendering cases. We often will set A cases and 25 then B cases, such that if an A case settles, then 0252 1 we have another case ready to take its place so 2 that we don't waste that precious court time. 3 And also in January of 2010 mandatory 4 mediation will begin in -- in York County in 16 5 judicial circuits, so I really believe that will 6 help move along cases as well. 7 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, you 8 disclosed in your PDQ you were charged with driving 9 while impaired in 1980 but later pled guilty to a 10 reckless driving charge. Could you elaborate on 11 this charge to the Commission. 12 JUDGE GUYTON: I was 18 or 19 years old 13 at the time, a freshman at Furman with a friend out 14 of town. Certainly made a poor judgment in 15 drinking too much and driving. The charge was 16 reduced to a reckless driving. At that time 18 was 17 the legal age. When I pled and then checked later 18 on, because I did report it on my bar application 19 and on my application to be a marine officer, it 20 had already been removed from the record itself. 21 I do consider myself very fortunate 22 that I did not harm anyone else or harm myself, and 23 I tend to use it and did use it this past week in 24 lecturing a juvenile client, you know, something of 25 a similar situation to let them know that it 0253 1 carries long-term ramifications that will always 2 follow you. 3 MS. SHULER: Thank you, Judge Guyton. 4 Mr. Chairman, at this time we have a 5 complaint regarding Judge Guyton, and I would ask 6 that Judge Guyton would step aside and allow 7 Mr. McDow to come forward and be sworn in. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right, 9 Mr. McDow, if you'd come forward, sir. 10 We have before us Mr. Thomas F. McDow 11 IV, correct, sir? 12 MR. McDOW: That is correct. 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Please 14 raise your right hand. 15 (Mr. McDow sworn.) 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 17 Please answer counsel's questions. 18 MS. SHULER: Mr. McDow, you are a 19 domestic relations attorney in Rock Hill, and 20 you've been practicing law since 1968. You allege 21 that Judge Guyton lacks knowledge of substantive 22 and procedural law needed for a Family Court judge 23 and has a bias and favor of children to the 24 detriment of the legal rights of the birth and/or 25 custodial parents. Your allegations are based on 0254 1 your dealings with Judge Guyton in two cases 2 directly and your knowledge from a third related 3 case. And I'm going to turn to the first case. 4 And in the interest -- Commission 5 Members, since there are minors involved in all 6 three of these cases, I am just going to refer 7 generally to the last name for each of the three 8 cases. 9 With respect to the first matter known 10 as the Wise case, Judge Guyton represented the 11 minor daughter who brought an emancipation action 12 in 2000 against her father who had custody of her. 13 You, Mr. McDow, represented her father. The case 14 was dismissed by Judge Landis on the grounds of 15 lack of jurisdiction on the basis that a juvenile 16 cannot maintain an action on her behalf without 17 appointment of a guardian ad litem and the natural 18 mother whose parental rights had not been 19 terminated was a necessary party to the action and 20 she was not made a party. 21 Judge Landis also stated in his 22 order -- and I would note to the Commission that 23 you have a copy of Judge Landis's order in your 24 materials that Mr. McDow attached to his 25 complaint -- that defendant moved for sanctions and 0255 1 attorney's fees under Rule 11 of the South Carolina 2 Rules of Civil Procedure and the South Carolina 3 Frivolous Proceedings Sanctions Act. Judge Landis 4 declined to hear this issue at the time, but he 5 stated he may consider it after notice to the 6 plaintiff's attorney. 7 Mr. McDow, you also contend that the 8 claims related to Rule 11 under the South Carolina 9 Frivolous Proceedings Acts against Judge Guyton 10 were subsequently mediated by Judge Guyton's firm 11 and that they paid $5,200 in settlement. 12 Is this a correct summation of your 13 first allegation with regard to the Wise case, and 14 is there anything additionally that you would like 15 to make the Commission aware of? 16 MR. McDOW: It is correct except that 17 it was mediated by the -- by Judge -- a subsequent 18 judge, Jack Kimball with the -- with the firm being 19 represented by Senator Hayes. 20 MS. SHULER: And Senator Hayes is 21 Judge -- Judge Guyton's law partner? 22 MR. McDOW: Yes. 23 MS. SHULER: Is there anything else 24 additionally with respect to his lack of legal 25 ability or -- regarding the Wise case that you -- 0256 1 that I have not covered? 2 MR. McDOW: There -- there were 3 other -- many, many issues in -- in that case which 4 suggested a lack of substantive and procedure -- 5 procedural knowledge, but that -- but the 6 jurisdiction was one that was ruled upon by the 7 judge. The -- that case was a long -- a long time 8 ago and standing in isolation would not have been 9 that significant. My belief is when you see that 10 in context of the other two cases that I cited, 11 that the Wise case takes on an added significance. 12 MS. SHULER: Turning now to the second 13 case cited by you which you believe the Wise case 14 he should have learned from, the Johnson matter. 15 Judge Guyton sought to intervene in a November 2007 16 custody motion hearing before Judge Guess in order 17 to act as an attorney on behalf of the 15-year-old 18 minor boy in an action involving both his parents. 19 Mr. McDow, you represented the minor boy's mother. 20 I would note at the outset to the 21 Commission that this is is the case that was cited 22 in Mr. -- in Judge Guyton's PDQ number 19 as one of 23 the significant legal matters he has personally 24 handled, and I believe this is also the young man 25 that Judge Guyton and his wife had custody of 0257 1 for -- no. 2 JUDGE GUYTON: It is not. 3 MR. McDOW: I don't believe so. That 4 is almost impossible. 5 MS. SHULER: All right. Wrong son. 6 But he -- this was a significant case, excuse me, 7 that he cited in his personal data questionnaire 8 number 19. In this matter, mother had custody of 9 minor son, but the minor son wished to reside with 10 his father even if it meant separating him from his 11 older brother. 12 Mr. McDow, you allege that Judge Guyton 13 was barred from representing the minor due -- due 14 to a conflict of interest, and that conflict of 15 interest that -- was that the mother previously 16 tried to retain Judge Guyton to represent her in 17 her separation action three years prior. You also 18 contend that Judge Guyton should not have tried to 19 intervene as the minor was effectively being 20 represented by an attorney guardian ad litem. 21 I note that Judge Guess initially 22 allowed Judge Guyton to appear at the November 23 hearing, but several months later in his February 24 2008 order he ruled that Judge Guyton was not 25 permitted to participate further on behalf of the 0258 1 minor son as his attorney. 2 Mr. McDow, is this an accurate summary 3 of your allegations regarding Judge Guyton and the 4 Johnson matter? 5 MR. McDOW: I believe that it is a 6 correct -- that it's a correct summary, and with 7 the issue -- that the order was issued several 8 months later because it also involved a number of 9 other issues. But my recollection, which certainly 10 could be wrong, was that Judge Guess made his 11 decision on the record at the conclusion of the 12 November hearing as -- as to Mr. Guyton's 13 participation. I may be wrong about that, but I -- 14 that's my recollection. 15 I -- I don't know that it's 16 necessary -- of any significant importance whether 17 it was that particular day or whether it was with 18 the rest of the order several months later. 19 MS. SHULER: I would note for the 20 record that we only have through page 24 of 39 of 21 the November hearing order, that we have the order 22 in February, but we don't have the complete 23 November order. 24 Is there anything additionally with 25 regard to your allegations concerning Judge Guyton 0259 1 in the Johnson matter that you wish to make the 2 Commission aware of? 3 MR. McDOW: Not that I can think of. 4 MS. SHULER: With respect to the third 5 matter cited by you, Mr. McDow, Judge Guyton served 6 as a guardian ad litem for a child in a termination 7 of parental rights, an adoption case -- and I'm 8 going to label it simply as Doe. Mr. McDow 9 represents a child in a continuing domestic 10 relation action that is related. 11 Mr. McDow, you allege that Judge Guyton 12 failed to conduct a full and impartial 13 investigation, and that investigation included he 14 failed to search social media sites as he would 15 have discovered facts relevant to the situation of 16 the child and family in accordance with the 17 statute. Specifically, you contend that Judge 18 Guyton should have discovered that the natural 19 mother was having an affair even while pursuing an 20 action to terminate the natural father's rights and 21 while assisting her current husband, the minor's 22 step-father -- step-father, to legally adopt him, 23 and in this matter again Judge Guyton was the 24 guardian ad litem for the minor child. 25 Mr. McDow, is this an accurate summary 0260 1 of your allegations regarding Judge Guyton in the 2 Doe matter? 3 MR. McDOW: I -- I think that may -- 4 may be a slight overstatement. I certainly 5 don't -- I do not expect every guardian ad litem to 6 become a Facebook member or YouTube member or 7 whatever and -- and go through all possible 8 combinations and permutations that exist on 9 Facebook and other social media. In fact, that 10 would pose too great a burden on the guardians. 11 The concern in this case was that 12 this -- this affair was fairly open and notorious 13 and should -- it seems to me that the fair and 14 impartial investigation required by -- required by 15 the statute should have revealed that these -- that 16 this marriage was not in good shape, and because of 17 his -- because of Mr. Guyton's finding that this 18 was an at-risk child because of the ADD and that 19 any change in his routine would -- would have a 20 detrimental affect on the child, that he had a -- 21 had maybe a greater obligation in terms of making 22 sure that this was a stable relationship. 23 And I don't -- I don't have any 24 specific -- I wasn't involved in the case. The 25 case was handled by another lawyer, and I just 0261 1 learned about it almost by mistake. I -- and I 2 called another lawyer who was involved, and I 3 wanted to tell the lawyer that -- to say, "I think 4 you've done something wrong in this case. You've 5 perpetrated a fraud on the Court in -- with this 6 adoption," and the lawyer said, "Wait a minute. 7 Not me. I was defending that case, not -- not 8 advocating the adoption." Now, that lawyer had 9 not -- had not heard of the affair either. 10 And I don't know what has happened to 11 that case. I don't know what Mr. Guyton has done 12 with the case since he learned of the knowledge 13 that -- that he was in fact misled, that a fraud 14 was perpetrated on the Court in that case, and I 15 don't know what the other attorney has done with 16 that case. 17 But I don't want -- being a guardian ad 18 litem is a tough job, and -- and you can't find out 19 everything that -- in every case. Some things are 20 going to slip through, and a lot of times you're at 21 the mercy of people to tell -- and you have to hope 22 that they're telling you the truth. 23 And I don't know -- I don't know 24 exactly what happened in that case, but the real 25 question is -- probably still exists. And I don't 0262 1 know the answers to them. And that is, What 2 happened after the fraud on the Court was 3 discovered? And I don't know the answer to that. 4 MS. SHULER: I guess I'm a little 5 unclear, Mr. McDow, because what was the fraud 6 perpetrated on the Court? That Judge Guyton didn't 7 discover -- 8 MR. McDOW: They told the -- 9 MS. SHULER: -- through knowledge in 10 the community that there was an affair going on? 11 MR. McDOW: It certainly wasn't fraud 12 on Mr. Guyton. It was a fraud by the plaintiffs 13 for whom he recommended the adoption. Certainly 14 Mr. Guyton would not have done that. But -- but 15 the plaintiffs perpetrated the fraud on the Court. 16 He supported their position based upon what they 17 told him. 18 I am suggesting that if he had asked -- 19 and I -- I wasn't there. I don't know what 20 questions he asked. Maybe he asked the toughest 21 questions that could have possibly been asked. But 22 my belief is that if he had asked tougher questions 23 or if he -- if he had talked with some of the other 24 witnesses, that he should have known -- probably 25 should have known more about the case at the time 0263 1 it went to trial. 2 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. I think 3 Professor Freeman had a question. 4 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: I have a question. 5 You said you don't know what questions he -- he 6 asked. 7 MR. McDOW: That is correct. 8 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: But if he had asked 9 tougher questions than the ones you don't know he 10 asked -- 11 MR. McDOW: No -- 12 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: -- something would 13 have happened. 14 MR. McDOW: And I said maybe he did ask 15 those questions. 16 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: I've got a problem 17 with -- 18 MR. McDOW: I said maybe he did. I 19 don't know. 20 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Well, do you think 21 it's appropriate to charge somebody with -- with 22 deficient legal behavior when you really don't know 23 the facts here? 24 MR. McDOW: I don't know -- I don't 25 know all the facts. I know enough to raise a 0264 1 significant question. I don't have -- and I don't 2 have to make -- I don't have to make the final 3 determination. Y'all get to make the determination 4 and then the legislature as a whole gets to make 5 the determination. All I can do is bring to you 6 what I know. 7 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Well, let me ask 8 this. On the other side of this case -- the 9 guardian ad litem isn't representing the party. 10 The guardian is -- is a fact finder, correct? On 11 the other side of this case was this lawyer that 12 you called up, correct? 13 MR. McDOW: Correct. 14 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: And he didn't know 15 about anything that Mr. Guyton didn't know about, 16 right? 17 MR. McDOW: That's -- that is correct. 18 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Well, why should we 19 assume that Mr. Guyton was doing a bad job when the 20 lawyer who was being paid by the injured party, 21 assuming somebody is injured, still doesn't know 22 about it? 23 MR. McDOW: I don't think you should 24 assume that Mr. Guyton was doing a bad job. I 25 think -- I think that you should -- but I think 0265 1 that -- I think you should probably ask some 2 questions about it. 3 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: The last question. 4 You said this was open and notorious facts, but if 5 it's so open and notorious, then how come the 6 lawyer for the party being injured by these open 7 and notorious facts doesn't even know about them 8 when you call him? 9 MR. McDOW: Because he lives on the 10 other side -- other side of the river over in Fort 11 Mill, and it is open and notorious in Rock Hill. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: You may proceed. 13 Is that it -- 14 MS. SHULER: Is there anything 15 additional that you want to make the Commission 16 aware of with regard to the three specific cases 17 that you allege demonstrate that Judge Guyton does 18 not meet the qualifications to be an effective 19 Family Court judge? 20 MR. McDOW: No. 21 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Mr. Chairman, may I 22 ask one more question? 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: Yes, sir, 24 Professor. Go ahead. 25 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: You've raised three 0266 1 questions, Mr. McDow. Have -- in your mind do any 2 of these three raise to the level of an ethics 3 violation? 4 MR. McDOW: Most probably. 5 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Then have you filed 6 any ethics charges? 7 MR. McDOW: I have not. 8 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Thank you. 9 MR. McDOW: But I think the one -- I 10 think the one that characterizes to an ethics 11 violation is the conflict of interest in the 12 Johnson case having talked with -- having talked 13 with her before, and there's no duty to report if 14 it's contrary to the best interest of my client. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: Yes, sir, 16 Professor. 17 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Are you aware 18 whether there is or is not or was or was not an 19 ethics rule concerning contacts with prospective 20 clients at the time Mr. -- that the candidate 21 was -- did talk to the wife, Mr. Guyton? 22 MR. McDOW: The last thing in the world 23 I want to do is get -- get into a debate on ethics 24 rules with the person that everybody recognizes is 25 South Carolina's foremost authority. But it's my 0267 1 understanding that there's always -- that when 2 you -- when you talk with a person and obtain 3 knowledge from them, when they anticipate that 4 you're going to be -- be their lawyer, that is -- 5 that is covered by the attorney-client privilege 6 and would create a conflict of interest. If I am 7 wrong about that -- you obviously know more about 8 that subject than I do. 9 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. The 10 senator from Lexington. 11 SENATOR KNOTTS: Mr. McDow, have you 12 ever had any other dealings with the -- Mr. Guyton? 13 MR. McDOW: I've had lots of dealings 14 with Mr. Guyton. 15 SENATOR KNOTTS: Have you had pleasant 16 dealings with -- 17 MR. McDOW: I've had very -- many 18 pleasant dealings with Mr. Guyton. Mr. Guyton has 19 a lot of good qualities. And those aren't the ones 20 I've dwelt in according to my affidavit. He is a 21 good citizen. He's a good family person. And I've 22 always considered him a friend. But for him I 23 would not be a member of the Winthrop Eagle Club 24 going to baseball games all spring long. 25 We've had cases on the opposite side of 0268 1 each other which has gone fairly well. He settled 2 a case, I think, this morning or yesterday with my 3 young -- young associate. He -- I was involved in 4 a case where I was -- I represented a pro bono 5 client and he was -- he was the guardian ad litem. 6 And I may be wrong about this, but he may have been 7 serving pro bono as well. But he put a lot of 8 effort into that -- into that case. 9 So, yes, I have -- I have had some 10 pleasant years with Mr. Guyton, and I'm not here to 11 portray him as an evil person or even a bad person. 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 13 questions? 14 MS. SHULER: I'd like to call Judge 15 Guyton back. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: Does he have any 17 other statement? 18 Mr. McDow, did you have anything else 19 you wanted to say? 20 MR. McDOW: I appreciate the fact 21 someone is willing to do all the dirty work y'all 22 do. 23 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Do you 24 want to call back -- 25 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, please. 0269 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Judge Guyton, if 2 you'd come forward, please. 3 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, what 4 response would you offer to the Commission with 5 regard to the Wise matter, and more specifically, 6 that you did not know the law when you brought this 7 emancipation action, as well as that this matter 8 was settled by your law firm to resolve the 9 sanctions Judge Landis commented on in his order? 10 MR. McDOW: In hindsight I should have 11 petitioned for a guardian ad litem. I brought this 12 case quickly because this was a 17-year-old girl 13 who was not living at home, who was -- made serious 14 allegations of abuse against her custodial father, 15 and I took this in an affidavit to Judge Woods who 16 signed the emergency order. Everyone I spoke with 17 was terrified of this father, including the -- the 18 mother of the child as well. 19 And as to the mediation, it was a 20 financial decision that was made by our firm much 21 like you would make a decision concerning a court 22 action or something. It was just going to be more 23 economic to go ahead and settle through the 24 mediation than it was to go ahead and battle this 25 out, so to speak, and take a lot of time -- or 0270 1 potentially a lot of time to deal with this. 2 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, before 3 turning to the second matter -- and I think 4 Mr. McDow has generally alleged that you favor the 5 rights of the children to the detriment at times of 6 the natural and/or custodial parents in a case, 7 that you are so focused on the rights of the 8 children that you do not always remember the rights 9 of the other parties in an action. What would be 10 your response to that allegation? 11 MR. McDOW: I would say that's -- 12 that's not true. I have a passion for all of my 13 clients. I certainly have a passion for children 14 as well, but I do not think that that passion 15 extends beyond following what the law is, and I 16 have certainly been on both sides of these cases 17 many time through the years. 18 MS. SHULER: As a follow-up, if you're 19 selected to the Family Court, what would your role 20 be on the bench when a child appears or is a party 21 in an action before you? 22 MR. McDOW: Well, I would certainly 23 expect that to happen many times in -- in all 24 cases. I'm going to listen to the facts and I'm 25 going to apply the law, and my ruling is going to 0271 1 be what's in the best interest of that child. That 2 is the standard and it always has been, and I 3 believe it always will be. 4 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, addressing 5 Mr. McDow's allegation in the Johnson matter, that 6 is, you were barred by a conflict of interest from 7 representing a minor as his mother previously 8 contacted you to represent her, let's turn first to 9 the conflict of interest allegation. What was the 10 substance of your contacts with the minor's mother 11 several years prior? 12 JUDGE GUYTON: As best I can recall, it 13 turned out to be a telephone conversation from 14 which I did not have any notes or anything like 15 that. And she called me with some general 16 inquiries, and I spoke to her by telephone, and, 17 you know, I do not remember anything of substance 18 from that particular case from that phone call. 19 MS. SHULER: Responding to the 20 allegation that you should not have intervened if 21 the minor was represented by an attorney guardian 22 ad litem, what response do you offer? 23 JUDGE GUYTON: Well, this was a case in 24 which this 15-year-old had twice been hospitalized 25 for suicidal tendencies. The 15-year-old had 0272 1 previously had a guardian ad litem who was Tony 2 Jones who is one of my opponents in this particular 3 race, and I believe he was going to recommend 4 against the mother who was Mr. McDow's client. 5 And, again, it was my understanding he was 6 conflicted out by Mr. McDow apparently. 7 Myron Malloy was the attorney who 8 became the guardian, and he worked hard for these 9 boys, but the system was -- was not working. This 10 was an ongoing litigation, four years I believe and 11 two, three, maybe four different case files on this 12 particular case. 13 And there was an incident in which the 14 15-year-old was chased down the street by his 15 mother with his brother's belt and the child ran to 16 a neighbor's house and that neighbor called DSS and 17 the police, and at that point in time that is when 18 I got involved. And I was very, very concerned 19 that this 15-year-old may very well carry out this 20 suicidal threat if I do not get involved. 21 I did intervene and of course Judge 22 Guess did grant the motion not only to allow me to 23 intervene to begin with, but he also granted the 24 motion to allow the 15-year-old to talk directly to 25 him, and he did that on the record without the 0273 1 parties or the attorneys present, just the guardian 2 and myself and the judge, the reporter and the 3 15-year-old. 4 I was involved for several weeks 5 afterwards in conversations with the attorneys and 6 the judge in this particular case, and I 7 specifically remember a 45-minute conference call 8 with Judge Guess because I happened to be on duty 9 at the time in Spartanburg. And so I was heavily 10 involved with this until he did release me as 11 counsel of record. 12 And I did consider this to be a 13 successful case because ultimately whether it was 14 from my intervention or not, the parties did settle 15 with the 15-year-old I represented staying with the 16 dad and the other child going with mom and moving 17 to -- to Georgia, and this 15-year-old is doing 18 very well right now and is very happy. 19 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, as for the 20 third matter, the Doe case, what response would you 21 offer to the allegation that you did not fully and 22 fairly investigate this matter as the minor's 23 guardian ad litem? 24 JUDGE GUYTON: I had sent -- sent a 25 copy of the -- my guardian ad litem report, and I 0274 1 think it speaks for itself in that I believe I did 2 fully investigate this. I did several home visits 3 to speak with the parents and with the child. 4 Neither parent at any time I spoke to them gave me 5 any indication that they were having any kind of 6 marital problem. 7 I don't believe it was open and 8 notorious simply because, again, I didn't hear 9 anything about this within our legal community, and 10 when I heard about it, it was from the attorney who 11 was representing the biological father. And I do 12 note that the biological father -- his rights were 13 terminated based upon the statutory grounds of 14 non-visitation and non-support for more than six 15 months. And that was established on the record by 16 Judge Kinlaw. 17 And, you know, I -- the father had 18 spent three years in jail for federal charges for 19 firearms and for judges -- for drugs, and I have to 20 say that assuming the allegations there are true -- 21 which I still have not been given anything in 22 writing. I just had a phone call from the 23 biological's father's attorney. In this particular 24 case I probably would not change my recommendation 25 because the relationship between that child and the 0275 1 step-father was very strong and -- and still is, as 2 I understand, and I still don't have any direct 3 knowledge of any problems there. 4 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, do you in 5 investigating -- or fully and fairly investigating 6 cases as a guardian ad litem, do you check 7 routinely social networking sites? 8 JUDGE GUYTON: I normally do -- do not. 9 In this particular case the biological father had 10 some detrimental information on some websites, but 11 that was -- I got that because the step-father and 12 biological mother presented it to me. But normally 13 I don't go checking for either Facebook or any of 14 these things like that. I felt pretty comfortable 15 at the time with the interviews that took place. 16 MS. SHULER: Is there anything in 17 summary that you would like to offer in response to 18 the allegations made by Mr. McDow against you 19 regarding your character -- of your competency to 20 serve as a Family Court judge? 21 JUDGE GUYTON: I think I am competent 22 to serve as a Family Court judge. I think none of 23 us are perfect. I am still learning many things, 24 and I hope any judge that sits on the bench would 25 take that attitude on a regular basis. And 0276 1 certainly as a judge we have to be able to accept 2 some constructive criticism from time to time as 3 well. I would just hope that from my perspective 4 any decisions that I make are going to be very 5 important in the life of a child, so I'm going to 6 give them the utmost consideration and, again, hope 7 that I don't make any mistakes. 8 MS. SHULER: If you are selected to the 9 Family Court bench, Judge Guyton, and Mr. McDow 10 should appear before you, what action would you 11 take? 12 JUDGE GUYTON: I think I would probably 13 have to recuse myself. Not because I could not 14 necessarily be fair and impartial to Mr. McDow, but 15 if one of Mr. McDow's clients finds out about this 16 circumstance, with him filing a complaint against 17 me, and I make a ruling against his client, his 18 client is always going to feel that there was an 19 appearance of impropriety, that it was unfair. And 20 so I think I would have to recuse myself. 21 If Mr. McDow comes in front of me with 22 a proposed settlement agreement that needs approval 23 on the record, again, as long as there is no 24 request from him for me to recuse myself in a 25 circumstance like that, if nothing is contested, 0277 1 then I can probably do that, but any other type of 2 case, I believe I would have to recuse myself. 3 MS. SHULER: That is all the questions 4 I have related specifically to the complaint. I do 5 have some housekeeping matters. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Let me 7 stop and see if any members of the Commission have 8 any further -- I have one for you. 9 In the second case, the Johnson case, 10 how did you -- I understand with him, but how did 11 you come to represent the child? 12 JUDGE GUYTON: I attend -- 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: Did the guardian ad 14 litem ask you or what? 15 JUDGE GUYTON: I was aware of the case 16 itself because again of ongoing litigation. It's 17 one of those things; among Family Court attorneys, 18 we hear and learn what is going on. I attended 19 church with both boys -- or at least the one I 20 represented after they -- they started separating. 21 So I had members of my church who spoke 22 to me about trying to help this young man out, and 23 especially after the last incident because the 24 house that he ran to was -- belonged to a member of 25 the church, and that church member called the 0278 1 police and DSS, and they contacted me to see if 2 there was something I could do for him. 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: And so did you then 4 initiate the contact to the child? 5 JUDGE GUYTON: I did. I did. And the 6 child was actually friends with my son who is about 7 two and a half years younger. So my son also had 8 some direct knowledge of seeing the impact of what 9 was happening in this case to -- to this child. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: And before you 11 initiated the action, did you call the guardian ad 12 litem or not? 13 JUDGE GUYTON: I did speak with the 14 guardian ad litem, and he explained to me his 15 understanding of the situation. And he at one 16 point was going to recommend that both boys stay 17 together because that is somewhat standard. He 18 changed and said he would recommend that this child 19 be placed with the father. He did tell me that the 20 prior judge on this case who heard it stated from 21 the outset that it was his policy never to separate 22 children. And I don't agree with that. 23 But -- but that was kind of how -- I 24 did talk to the guardian. I did then call the 25 child. I went to pick them up, brought them to my 0279 1 office, sat down behind closed doors and I had an 2 interview with him and asked him to please tell me 3 the facts as -- as to what happened and what his 4 desires were, and then I took the initiative to 5 file the motion. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. If 7 there's no further questions of anybody else on 8 this, then well go -- 9 MR. SELLERS: I have one. 10 Judge Guyton, I assume you've been on 11 all three sides of these cases. 12 JUDGE GUYTON: Yes. 13 MR. SELLERS: The mother's side, the 14 father's side and the child's side; is that a fair 15 assessment? 16 JUDGE GUYTON: It is. 17 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 18 questions? If not, proceed. 19 MS. SHULER: Judge Guyton, some 20 housekeeping issues to cover with you now. 21 Have you sought or received the pledge 22 of any legislator including, but not limited to, 23 Senator Robert Hayes prior to this date? 24 JUDGE GUYTON: No. 25 MS. SHULER: Have you sought or been 0280 1 offered a conditional pledge of support of any 2 legislator including, but not limited to, Senator 3 Robert Hayes pending the outcome of your screening? 4 JUDGE GUYTON: No. 5 MS. SHULER: Have you asked any third 6 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 7 on your behalf? 8 JUDGE GUYTON: No. 9 MS. SHULER: Have you contacted any 10 members of the Commission? 11 JUDGE GUYTON: I did contact 12 Representative Delleney I think the day after I 13 sent my letter with my announcement, and 14 immediately upon my phone call he informed me that 15 he could not speak with me and gave me the names of 16 the other members, and then I think I received a 17 package in the mail the next day. 18 MS. SHULER: Thank you. 19 Do you understand that you are 20 prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 21 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 22 Commission's report? 23 JUDGE GUYTON: I do. 24 MS. SHULER: Have you reviewed the 25 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 0281 1 JUDGE GUYTON: I have. 2 MS. SHULER: Are you aware of the 3 penalties for violating those guidelines, that is, 4 it's a misdemeanor and you can be fined not more 5 than a thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than 6 90 days? 7 JUDGE GUYTON: I know. 8 MS. SHULER: I would note that the 9 Piedmont Citizens Committee found Judge Guyton well 10 qualified for each of the nine evaluative criteria: 11 Constitutional qualifications, ethical fitness, 12 professional and academic ability, character, 13 reputation, physical health, mental stability, 14 experience, and judicial temperament. 15 I would note for the record that any 16 concerns that I have regarding this candidate were 17 incorporated into my questioning of this candidate 18 today. 19 And, Mr. Chairman, I have no further 20 questions of Judge Guyton. 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Any 22 member of the Commission have any further 23 questions? 24 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Mr. Chairman, I 25 have one question. 0282 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Senator Nicholson. 2 SENATOR NICHOLSON: The Children's 3 Attention Home Charter School, is that a public or 4 private charter school? 5 JUDGE GUYTON: It is a -- it receives 6 public funds. It is a charter school solely to be 7 affiliated with the Children's Extension Home which 8 is just for -- well, it's open to everybody, but 9 it's primarily for abused and neglected children 10 who are coming through the system, and the purpose 11 is to keep them out of the public schools so they 12 won't suffer the stigma involved sometimes with 13 being separated. 14 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Public -- still a 15 public school system? 16 JUDGE GUYTON: We do get -- get -- we 17 are sponsored by the Rock Hill school district, 18 that's correct. 19 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Okay. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: The senator from 21 Lexington. 22 SENATOR KNOTTS: Judge Guyton, you 23 state here that you are a judge for the South 24 Carolina National Guard as a military judge. 25 JUDGE GUYTON: Yes, sir. 0283 1 SENATOR KNOTTS: And what type cases do 2 you handle there? 3 JUDGE GUYTON: Those are primarily 4 going to be military cases. We do have a South 5 Carolina Code of Military Justice that's on the 6 books. Being named as the state military judge 7 actually by statute carries the authority of a 8 Circuit Court judge, and I hear special court 9 martials. And we don't have many fortunately, but 10 they are primarily military offenses which would be 11 something like an AWOL, disrespect for an officer, 12 something of that nature. 13 SENATOR KNOTTS: So nothing there would 14 prohibit -- would be a conflict for you? 15 JUDGE GUYTON: No, sir. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Any 17 further questions? If not, this concludes this 18 portion of our screening process. 19 As you know, the record will remain 20 open until the report is published, and you may be 21 called back at such time if the need arises. 22 I want to remind you of the 48-hour 23 rule. Ask you to be very mindful of that, so 24 mindful that if anyone inquires with you about 25 whether they may or may not advocate for you in the 0284 1 event you're screened out of this panel, please 2 remind them of the 48-hour rule. 3 We thank you for offering, thank you 4 for your service to the people of South Carolina in 5 the position you have, and this concludes this 6 stage of the process. 7 JUDGE GUYTON: Thank you. 8 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 9 Thank you, sir, too for coming. Thank 10 you for coming. 11 (Candidate excused.) 12 (Off the record.) 13 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 14 go back on the record at this time. 15 We have before us Mr. Tony M. Jones who 16 is offering for the Family Court, Sixteenth 17 Circuit, Seat Number 2. 18 If you'd be kind enough to raise your 19 right hand, please, sir. 20 (Candidate sworn.) 21 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 22 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 23 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 24 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 25 evaluative criteria and has included a survey of 0285 1 the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 2 application materials, verification of your 3 compliance with state ethics laws, a search of 4 newspaper articles in which your name appears, a 5 study of previous screenings, and a check for 6 economic conflicts of interest. 7 We received no affidavits filed in 8 opposition to your election. No witnesses are 9 present to testify. 10 I would ask you if there's any opening 11 remarks you might want to give. They're purely 12 optional. The procedure is we'll turn you over to 13 counsel. Counsel will ask you a series of 14 questions. There may be follow-ups by the 15 Commission, and then we'll wrap up for the hearing. 16 MR. JONES: My name is Tony Jones. I'm 17 from Rock Hill. I am a candidate for the Family 18 Court judgeship in the Sixteenth Circuit, Seat 19 Number 2. I appreciate having the opportunity to 20 be here today, and I'm prepared to answer any 21 questions you may have. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 23 Please answer counsel's questions. 24 MR. FIFFICK: Mr. Chairman and members 25 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 0286 1 to take care of with the candidate. 2 Mr. Jones, you have before you the 3 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 4 of your application. Is there any amendment you 5 would like to make at this time to your PDQ? 6 MR. JONES: No, sir. None other than 7 the amendment that was made on October 27th. 8 MR. FIFFICK: 34 and 35? 9 MR. JONES: Yes, sir. 10 MR. FIFFICK: At this time I would ask 11 that Mr. -- Mr. Jones' personal data 12 questionnaire -- questionnaire and the amendment to 13 questions 34 and 35 be entered as an exhibit into 14 the hearing record. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 16 so ordered. 17 (EXH. 35, Personal Data Questionnaire 18 and Amendment of Mr. Tony M. Jones, admitted.) 19 MR. FIFFICK: Mr. Jones, you have 20 before you also a sworn statement you provided with 21 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 22 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 23 administration, and temperament. Is there any 24 amendment you would like to make at this time to 25 your sworn statement? 0287 1 MR. JONES: No, sir. 2 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 3 At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would ask 4 that Mr. Jones' sworn statement be entered as an 5 exhibit to the hearing record. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 7 so ordered. 8 (EXH. 36, Sworn Statement of Tony M. 9 Jones, admitted.) 10 MR. FIFFICK: Mr. Jones, would you 11 please state for the record the city and judicial 12 circuit with -- within which you reside. 13 MR. JONES: Rock Hill, York County, 14 Sixteenth Judicial Circuit. 15 MR. FIFFICK: With that, I'd also note 16 on the record based on the testimony contained in 17 the candidate's PDQ which has been included in the 18 record with the candidate's consent, Mr. Jones 19 meets the statutory requirements for this position 20 regarding age, residence, and years of practice. 21 Mr. Jones, why do you want to serve as 22 a Family Court judge? 23 MR. JONES: The practice of law has 24 been very good to me. I've been practicing for 26 25 years, a number of years in the Family Court 0288 1 exclusively. I'm not doing this for an increase in 2 pay or any retirement because the truth is, it will 3 represent a serious decrease in income for me. But 4 I do believe in giving something back, and I 5 believe in the concept of public service, and I've 6 put myself in a position in my career to where if I 7 was elected that I would be able to handle the 8 move. 9 I think I have a lot to offer in the 10 Family Court bench. I have practiced -- and I make 11 over 200 court appearances a year and have handled 12 over 2,000 domestic cases in my career. I've 13 handled everything from the smallest to the most 14 complex litigation. And in my opinion the bar is 15 as good as the bench, and I think that we need the 16 best Family Court lawyers we can get to put on that 17 bench. And I believe I am one of them, and that's 18 why I presented myself as a candidate. 19 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you, sir. 20 Other than what you've already spoken 21 about, is there anything else with regard to your 22 experience that you can explain to the Commission 23 that will help in terms of your legal and 24 professional experience that will make you be an 25 effective Family Court judge? 0289 1 MR. JONES: Well, it's contained in my 2 PDQ. I guess I can elaborate on that. I have -- 3 as I say, I've handled every kind of Family Court 4 case you can have. But I've also worked 5 extensively with abused and neglected children and 6 a facility in York County known as the Children's 7 Detention Home. So I've seen it from the side of 8 the children that come into the system, and I have 9 seen in great detail the problems associated with 10 these children who come in from the system, who 11 come in from abused and neglected families, and 12 I've worked with them from that side as well, so 13 it's not something I just see on paper. 14 That's important to me, and I think it 15 would benefit me tremendously on the bench as a 16 Family Court judge. 17 MR. FIFFICK: Based on your legal 18 experience and practice thus far, are there any 19 areas you feel you would need to additionally 20 prepare for and how would you go about that 21 additional preparation? 22 MR. JONES: The only areas of Family 23 Court law that I don't practice in extensively 24 would be the juvenile criminal and the adoption 25 primarily because in our area we have one or two 0290 1 lawyers who pretty much have a market on all of the 2 adoption cases in the area, but I'm familiar with 3 the statutory requirements. I'm familiar with the 4 procedures in juvenile court. 5 I would just need to bone up a little 6 bit on the adoption law itself, you know, 7 procedures, but that shouldn't -- I don't foresee 8 that as a difficulty as well. 9 MR. FIFFICK: And although you address 10 this in your sworn affidavit, could you please tell 11 the members of the Commission what you think an 12 appropriate demeanor for a judge is. 13 MR. JONES: Well, when I talk -- when 14 we look at what appropriate demeanor is, the best 15 way I can answer that is to look at some of the 16 current judges that we have and the way they run 17 their courtrooms. There is not -- Judge Robert 18 Jenkins runs as much of a -- as much of a dignified 19 courtroom as any judge in the state, and I would 20 hope to have -- to me that is the epitome of what 21 dignity that should be in a courtroom. 22 Judge Gene Morehouse (sic), he has a 23 command of the courtroom. I mean, he -- he deals 24 with people in a very courteous, civil, but a 25 manner in which they get the opportunity -- they 0291 1 feel like they've had the opportunity. People 2 think they get a fair shot with Judge Morehouse. 3 That's the kind of courtroom I want to have, and 4 that's the kind of courtroom I think we should 5 have. 6 MR. FIFFICK: Could you -- will you 7 state for the record which judge that is. 8 MR. JONES: Judge Robert Jenkins out of 9 Greenville and Gene Morehead. They're great 10 judges. 11 MR. FIFFICK: And if -- if elected to 12 the bench, how would you seek to improve the Family 13 Court system in South Carolina? 14 MR. JONES: We've got a lot of work we 15 need to do in the Family Court system. The first 16 thing we need to do, not to be trite, is work. We 17 need to start court at nine o'clock in the morning. 18 We need to work past 5:00 if we need to. We need 19 to work on Friday afternoons if -- if it's needed. 20 We need to start at eight o'clock in the morning 21 when you don't have to have a court -- take care of 22 matters that don't have to necessitate a court 23 reporter. 24 We can work from 8:00 to 9:00 and take 25 care of status conferences and pretrial matters. 0292 1 We could do that starting at 8:00. The world 2 starts working at eight o'clock in the morning, and 3 so should the Family Court. 4 We need scheduling orders. When we 5 have temporary hearings -- you know, cases just 6 sort of lag along. They just sort of wither on the 7 vine, so now we have 365-day rule that says we're 8 going to dismiss this case if it's not resolved, 9 and then everybody is then this crash -- crush at 10 the end to kind of resolve that. 11 We can fix that, and the way to fix 12 that is when we have a temporary hearing or at the 13 outset of the case, let's have a scheduling order 14 that mandates certain requirements during the 15 pendency of this action that says you're going to 16 have discovery due -- resolved at this point. 17 You're going to have all of your appraisals done at 18 this point, and if you can't agree on an appraiser, 19 then you have a status conference and let the Court 20 do it and let the Court fix and push these things 21 along so when they get ready for trial the work is 22 done and you don't have people clammering for 23 continuances. 24 And another thing, we can have B cases. 25 We schedule these cases for trial, and if it 0293 1 settles at the courthouse steps, which is not 2 uncommon -- and that's okay, resolving a case, but 3 we need a B case in backup. We need another case 4 to put in that slot. So when we finish one if we 5 settle it, well, then we can bring in another one. 6 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you, sir. I also 7 have a few more questions we ask of every 8 candidate. 9 MR. JONES: Sure. 10 MR. FIFFICK: Have you ever sought or 11 received a pledge of any legislator prior to this 12 date? 13 MR. JONES: No, sir. 14 MR. FIFFICK: Have you sought or have 15 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 16 any legislator pending the outcome of your 17 screening? 18 MR. JONES: No, sir. 19 MR. FIFFICK: Have you asked any third 20 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 21 on your behalf? 22 MR. JONES: No, sir. 23 MR. FIFFICK: Have you contacted any 24 members of the Commission? 25 MR. JONES: Well, as I -- when I 0294 1 amended my PDQ, sometime back I inadvertently 2 placed a telephone call to Representative Delleney 3 to ask him a procedural question about how this 4 process works. He told me quickly that he can't 5 talk to me and reminded me he's on the Commission 6 and referred me to Jane Shuler. I called Jane 7 Shuler and I reported to her that I had made the 8 inquiry, and as I put in my amendment, she 9 admonished, slash, reminded me I'm not to do that. 10 And so it was inadvertent, but it was 11 not with the intent to gain some advantage or 12 circumvent the process. 13 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you, sir. 14 Did you understand that you are 15 prohibited from seeking a pledge of commitment 16 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 17 Commission report? 18 MR. JONES: Yes, sir. 19 MR. FIFFICK: And have you reviewed the 20 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 21 MR. JONES: Yes, sir. 22 MR. FIFFICK: And as a follow-up, are 23 you aware of the penalty for violating the pledging 24 rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and upon 25 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 0295 1 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 2 MR. JONES: Yes, sir. 3 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 4 I would now note that the Piedmont 5 Citizens Committee reported that Mr. Jones is 6 qualified in the area of judicial temperament and 7 well qualified in other areas. 8 Finally, I would just note that for the 9 record that any concerns raised is -- during the 10 investigation regarding the candidate were 11 incorporated into the questioning of the candidate 12 today. 13 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 14 questions. 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you, sir. 16 Any member of the Commission have a 17 question? The senator from Lexington. 18 SENATOR KNOTTS: Tell me what your 19 philosophy would be on dead beat dads or moms 20 that -- or they just because of the economy get 21 behind in child support for a short period of time 22 and the difference between that and a dead beat dad 23 or mom that is constantly running from the courts 24 and building up long periods of time without paying 25 child support to the tune of 40 or 50 or $60,000. 0296 1 What is your philosophy on that? 2 MR. JONES: Well, first of all, I 3 believe in being fair but firm, and I believe court 4 orders need to be enforced. I think you have to -- 5 to a large extent you have to look at things on a 6 case-by-case basis, and what I mean by that, if 7 you've got someone -- and in our economy -- at home 8 the economic climate is pretty severe in terms of 9 unemployment. 10 But if you've got someone that's got a 11 court ordered obligation and they're over there 12 every week paying something and they're 13 demonstrating some good faith and doing what they 14 can and they might file a pro se petition if they 15 can't afford a lawyer to modify that support in 16 light of the changing circumstances, I would have a 17 tendency to look more kindly on that than I would 18 be the people -- and we get -- they get 19 printouts -- judges get printouts for every person 20 that comes before them in terms of their payment 21 history that's paid to the court -- to the person 22 who knows how to play the game, that they don't pay 23 their child support until they're ruled in, and 24 then if you pay it up up through a week before the 25 hearing, you don't have to come to court. 0297 1 So on one hand you've got these 2 recipients, mothers and sometimes fathers, who 3 depend on this money, they need the money, and 4 you've got the payor over there playing games, not 5 paying until they get a contempt citation and then 6 pushing it even further until the day before the 7 deadline when they can pay and not come to court, 8 it's time for them to go to jail. 9 SENATOR KNOTTS: How about the ones 10 that run for four, five, ten years and they get 11 caught out of state? 12 MR. JONES: Throw everything we got at 13 them. I mean, fair is fair. I mean, we have to -- 14 if they're not going to pay child support and 15 they're going to run, if we can get them, we need 16 to keep them as long as the law will allow. Purged 17 upon payment of what they owe. Don't have somebody 18 who owes $40,000, put them in jail for a year, 19 purge upon payment of $5,000 and the balance over a 20 period of time because they pay that $5,000, they 21 get out and we won't get them again. 22 You know, we used to have an old saying 23 in Rock Hill. Put them in jail. By three o'clock 24 that afternoon the eagle will fly. They'll find a 25 way. And they just need to go to jail. 0298 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any other 2 questions? 3 All right. Mr. Jones, this will 4 conclude this portion of our screening process. As 5 you know, the record will remain open until the 6 report is published, and you may get called back at 7 such time if the need arises. 8 Let me remind you again about the 9 48-hour rule and ask that you be very mindful of 10 it, in fact so mindful if anyone inquires with you 11 about whether they may or may not advocate for you 12 in the event that you are screened out as you 13 described it and as we described it, screening out, 14 remind them of the 48-hour rule. 15 MR. JONES: Yes, sir. 16 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, we thank 17 you for your offering, and thank you for your 18 service to the people of South Carolina. Have a 19 good day. 20 MR. JONES: Thank you for the 21 opportunity to be here today. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Yes, sir. 23 MR. JONES: Y'all have a good day. 24 (Candidate excused.) 25 (Off the record.) 0299 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. We'll 2 go back on the record at this time. 3 And we have before us Ms. Angela M. 4 Killian? 5 MS. KILLIAN: That's correct. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Thank 7 you. And you're offering for the Family Court, 8 Sixteenth Circuit, Seat Number 2. 9 If you'd be so kind as to raise your 10 right hand. 11 (Candidate sworn.) 12 SENATOR McCONNELL: Thank you. 13 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 14 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 15 the bench. Our inquiries focused on our nine 16 evaluative criteria, and it has included a survey 17 of the bench and the bar, a thorough study of your 18 application materials, verification of your 19 compliance with state ethics laws, a search of 20 newspaper articles in which your name appears, a 21 study of previous screenings, and a check for 22 economic conflicts of interest. 23 We received no affidavits filed in 24 opposition to your election, and we have no 25 witnesses present to testify. 0300 1 So I would ask you if you have any 2 brief opening statement you wish to make. I will 3 tell you it's purely optional. The procedure is 4 this. We will turn you over to staff counsel who 5 have a series of questions for you. At the 6 conclusion of that we'll see if the commissioners 7 have any questions. If they do, we'll go through 8 that and that will wrap up this hearing. 9 MS. KILLIAN: I don't wish to make an 10 opening statement. 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Thank 12 you. 13 Please answer counsel's questions. 14 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you, 15 Mr. Chairman. 16 Mr. Chairman and members of the 17 Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take 18 care of with this candidate. 19 Ms. Killian, you have before you the 20 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 21 of your application. Are there any amendments that 22 you would like to make at this time to your PDQ? 23 MS. KILLIAN: No. 24 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman, I would 25 like to ask that Ms. Killian's personal data 0301 1 questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the 2 hearing record. 3 SENATOR McCONNELL: Without objection, 4 so ordered. 5 (EXH. 37, Personal Data Questionnaire 6 of Ms. Angela M. Killian, admitted.) 7 MS. GOLDSMITH: Ms. Killian, you have 8 before you the sworn statement you provided with 9 detailed answers to over 30 questions regarding 10 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 11 administration, and temperament. Are there any 12 amendments you would like to make to that at this 13 time? 14 MS. KILLIAN: No. 15 MS. GOLDSMITH: All right. 16 Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask that 17 Ms. Killian's sworn statement be entered into the 18 record. 19 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. Without 20 objection, so ordered. 21 (EXH. 38, Sworn Statement of Angela M. 22 Killian, admitted.) 23 MS. GOLDSMITH: One final procedural 24 matter. I note for the record that based on the 25 testimony contained in Ms. Killian's PDQ which has 0302 1 been included in the record with her consent, 2 Ms. Killian meets the statutory requirements for 3 this position regarding age and residence. 4 Ms. Killian, will you please explain to 5 the Commission when you will become eligible based 6 on years of practice. 7 MS. KILLIAN: I will become eligible on 8 November the 13th of 2009 of this year. 9 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you, Ms. Killian. 10 Will you please state for the record 11 the city and judicial circuit in which you reside. 12 MS. KILLIAN: I reside in York County, 13 judicial circuit -- the Sixteenth Judicial Circuit. 14 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. Ms. Killian, why 15 do you want to serve as a Family Court judge? 16 MS. KILLIAN: I enjoy the subject 17 matter of Family Court. I feel that I'm qualified 18 for the position. I also aspire to want to be a 19 federal judge some day, but I really do enjoy the 20 subject matter of really being in -- it's something 21 that -- to me Family Court is common -- common 22 sense type law. I like dealing with people, 23 working with people, and I believe that I 24 understand most of the issues that would come 25 before the Family Court judge bench. 0303 1 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 2 Can you explain to the Commission how 3 you feel your legal and professional experience 4 thus far will assist you in being an effective 5 judge. 6 MS. KILLIAN: Well, I -- when I 7 became -- began practicing in South Carolina, I 8 started out with the South Carolina Centers for 9 Equal Justice where I got a great deal of 10 experience doing divorces, custody, order of 11 protections, some of the big issues in Family 12 Court, and I've done numerous of those. I can 13 probably -- I probably estimate I've done maybe a 14 hundred -- a little over 120 court appearances 15 there. I represented a little bit over 200 clients 16 there, and I felt like that, you know, I was 17 exposed to a lot of -- a great deal of Family Court 18 issues involving custody and family law. 19 And with the Department of Social 20 Services I've been there for four years. I am now 21 understanding -- I didn't have an understanding of 22 what the best interest of the child meant 23 practicing doing private cases in -- with legal 24 services, but now I do understand what that means, 25 and I believe that I can take that knowledge and it 0304 1 will be helpful to me on the bench in regards to 2 that matter. 3 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 4 Ms. Killian, are there any areas, 5 including subjective areas of law, that you would 6 need additional preparing for in order to serve as 7 a judge, and how would you handle that additional 8 preparation? 9 MS. KILLIAN: I probably would need a 10 little bit more with the juvenile justice -- with 11 juvenile cases. I haven't had too much experience 12 in that. I might have done one case, and I would 13 handle that by simply doing some research, maybe 14 taking some courses in that -- in that area of law 15 so I can understand that more -- a little bit more 16 better. 17 It's not that different from what I do 18 now, but I do notice that there are some -- some 19 differences in the statutes. 20 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. Thank you. 21 Although you address this in your sworn 22 affidavit, could you please explain to the members 23 of the Commission what you think is the appropriate 24 demeanor for a judge. 25 MS. KILLIAN: I think it's important 0305 1 for a judge to be a pleasant judge. I tend to -- 2 to not really show a lot of emotion, and I don't 3 think it's a good thing for a judge to be having a 4 bad day, to look like they're angry and whatnot. I 5 just think they should have a pleasant demeanor 6 about them and treat people with respect that come 7 before the bench. 8 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. What suggestions 9 would you offer for improving the backlog of cases 10 in the Family Court? 11 MS. KILLIAN: The suggestion that I 12 would offer is maybe to develop some type of task 13 force to kind of examine the issue more closely to 14 come up with some type of solution in expediting 15 most of the cases that come before the Family Court 16 to do -- to try to troubleshoot where the problem 17 areas are and to try to use that task force to make 18 some suggestions as to how we can deal with the 19 backlog of cases. 20 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 21 Ms. Killian, the Judicial Qualification 22 Committee of the South Carolina -- South Carolina 23 Bar found that you were qualified in all areas in 24 which they investigated. However, the Commission 25 did note that -- note that they placed 30 phone 0306 1 calls and that due to your unique practice a 2 limited number of those calls were completed. Can 3 you explain why that may have happened. 4 MS. KILLIAN: It may have happened 5 because of the -- I guess if they called some of 6 the people I tend to deal with, they are just -- 7 they be in court just as much as -- time as I do, 8 and I know some of them probably haven't had an 9 opportunity to respond to the phone calls placed 10 because of the people I deal with normally they 11 have busy schedules similar to mine. 12 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. And just for the 13 record, you practice with DSS currently? 14 MS. KILLIAN: I practice with DSS 15 currently. 16 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. Thank you, 17 Ms. Killian. 18 Have you sought or received the pledge 19 of any legislator prior to this date? 20 MS. KILLIAN: No. 21 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you sought or have 22 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 23 any legislator pending the outcome of your 24 screening? 25 MS. KILLIAN: No. 0307 1 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you asked any 2 third parties to contact members of the General 3 Assembly on your behalf? 4 MS. KILLIAN: No. 5 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you contacted any 6 members of this Commission? 7 MS. KILLIAN: No. Other than 8 Ms. Shuler to ask a question about the process. 9 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. Do you 10 understand that you are prohibited from seeking a 11 pledge or commitment until 48 hours after the 12 formal release of the Commission's report? 13 MS. KILLIAN: Yes, I understand that. 14 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you reviewed the 15 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 16 MS. KILLIAN: I have. 17 MS. GOLDSMITH: As a follow-up, are you 18 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 19 rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and upon 20 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 21 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 22 MS. KILLIAN: Yes, I am aware of that. 23 MS. GOLDSMITH: I would note for the 24 record that the Piedmont Citizens Committee found 25 Ms. Killian qualified in the areas of 0308 1 Constitutional qualifications, character, 2 reputation, experience, and judicial temperament. 3 The Committee found Ms. Killian well qualified in 4 the areas of ethical fitness, professional and 5 academic ability, physical health, and mental 6 stability. 7 The Committee also noted that 8 Ms. Killian impressed the Committee with her 9 academic ability and knowledge of the law. 10 However, the Committee felt that Ms. Killian needed 11 additional and more extended experience to be an 12 effective judge. 13 Ms. Killian, would you like to respond 14 to the Committee's concerns? 15 MS. KILLIAN: Yes, I would. But I 16 believe that the Committee was looking at the fact 17 that I was, you know, not quite eight years. But I 18 don't think I was questioned on the volume of cases 19 that I have completed in those eight years of 20 practice. With the Department of Social Services I 21 would estimate that I have -- I have maybe averaged 22 over a little over 50 court appearances per year, 23 and usually I have between four to six cases per 24 docket and I have been handling cases in three 25 different counties, Chester County, Fairfield 0309 1 County and Lancaster County. 2 In addition, during my eight years -- 3 or not quite eight years, I have also been -- had 4 cases in seven different counties in the state. I 5 have practiced in Laurens County. I have practiced 6 in Cherokee County. I have practiced in 7 Spartanburg, and I have practiced also in Union 8 County and some in York County. So I do -- don't 9 feel that was -- that information came out in that 10 interview, but I do feel that I have some extensive 11 trial experience based on the years that I have 12 been practicing law. 13 MS. GOLDSMITH: Okay. Thank you. 14 I would just note for the record that 15 any concerns raised during the investigation 16 regarding Ms. Killian were incorporated into the 17 questioning of her today. 18 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 19 questions. 20 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. I see 21 Senator Knotts has a question. The senator from 22 Lexington. 23 SENATOR KNOTTS: Ms. Killian, I noticed 24 here on your CLEs the dates that you have had CLE 25 courses, and I notice in '06 you -- I mean, in '04 0310 1 you had four in the month of June -- one in June 2 and three in September. '05 you had two courses, 3 one in February and one in September. '06 you had 4 three, March, August and December. And from '06 -- 5 I mean, '07 to '08 you had none. And your last one 6 was February the 27th, '09. Can you explain how 7 you kept your CLE -- what happened in those two 8 years that you didn't do anything? 9 MS. KILLIAN: Yes, sir, I can explain. 10 I did do -- do some things, but at time I filled 11 out the application I wasn't able to access those 12 particular dates and courses because I went online 13 for the Commission's web -- the Commission's 14 website on line, but I did complete all my CLEs in 15 the years required because I usually kind of carry 16 over. 17 And so they were all -- during that 18 period of time between 2000 -- I think prior -- in 19 May of 2005 until presently I have completed DSS 20 CLEs and they are held three times per year and I 21 usually attend all those. 22 SENATOR KNOTTS: Do they not keep a 23 list of the CLEs with the bar? 24 MS. KILLIAN: They do, but I went 25 online to -- when I was filling out the 0311 1 application, went online to access my record, and 2 for some reason that particular report would not 3 pull up that information. I was able to get the 4 other information from the other reports that were 5 online to get -- to access that information. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: Professor Freeman. 7 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: Could we ask that 8 the information be supplemented just so there's no 9 doubt there's been a completion. I mean, you're 10 the one who took the courses and we'd like the 11 complete data. 12 MS. KILLIAN: Okay. 13 PROFESSOR FREEMAN: No problem. 14 SENATOR McCONNELL: And it looks like 15 she had some excess hours, which you're allowed to 16 carry forward. 17 MS. KILLIAN: Uh-huh. 18 SENATOR McCONNELL: Any further 19 questions? If not, this concludes this portion of 20 our screening process. 21 As you know the record will remain open 22 until the report is published, and you may be 23 called back at such time if the need arises. 24 I want to remind you of the 48-hour 25 rule and ask you to be very mindful of that, so 0312 1 mindful of that if anyone inquires with you about 2 whether they may or may not advocate for you in the 3 event you're screened out, you're to remind them of 4 the 48-hour rule. 5 MS. KILLIAN: Okay. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: With that, we thank 7 you for offering, and we thank you for your 8 service. 9 MS. KILLIAN: Thank you. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: Have a good 11 evening. 12 MS. KILLIAN: All right. You all have 13 a good evening as well. 14 (Candidate excused.) 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. It's my 16 understanding from staff that we -- we need to take 17 care of this particular race. We also need to be 18 briefed on some -- another matter dealing with a 19 personal nature with candidate -- 20 SENATOR KNOTTS: Moved. 21 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Second. 22 SENATOR McCONNELL: Moved and seconded 23 we go into executive session. 24 Is there an objection? If there is 25 not, let the record show that every single member, 0313 1 including the proxy, has voted for the executive 2 session. 3 Sergeant, please secure the chambers. 4 Off the record. 5 (Off the record.) 6 (The members went into executive 7 session at 5:45 p.m.) 8 * * * * * 9 (The members returned to open session 10 at 5:52 p.m.) 11 SENATOR McCONNELL: If you would, open 12 the door to see that it is published out there that 13 we are in open session. 14 (Off the record.) 15 SENATOR McCONNELL: We'll go back on 16 the record. 17 We're in open session now. We would 18 report that the Commission has taken no formal 19 actions in executive session. 20 We are now -- before us and -- before 21 we proceed, we have the three of the Family Court 22 for the Sixteenth Circuit, Seat Number 2. What I 23 would suggest we do is to see what is the -- of any 24 comments to be made publicly on these. 25 Are there any motions? The senator 0314 1 from Lexington. 2 SENATOR KNOTTS: Make a motion that the 3 three candidates all be qualified. 4 SENATOR McCONNELL: And nominated? 5 SENATOR KNOTTS: Nominated. 6 SENATOR McCONNELL: All right. The 7 motion is all three candidates be qualified and 8 nominated. Do I hear a second? 9 SENATOR NICHOLSON: Second. 10 SENATOR McCONNELL: It's been seconded 11 by Senator Nicholson. 12 The floor is now open for discussion. 13 Is there any discussion? I think the record speaks 14 for itself. 15 With that, we will put it to a vote 16 then. All in favor of finding them nominated and 17 qualified, please raise your right hand. 18 MS. SHULER: Senator Nicholson, 19 Mr. Harrell, Representative Clemmons, 20 Representative Delleney with the proxy, Senator 21 McConnell, Senator Knotts, Professor Freeman, 22 Representative Mack, and Mr. Sellers. Ten votes. 23 SENATOR KNOTTS: Let the record -- 24 Mr. Chairman, if you could, let the record reflect 25 the names for the court reporter. 0315 1 SENATOR McCONNELL: You mean The 2 Honorable David Guyton, Tony Miller Jones, Angela 3 Killian are all found qualified and nominated. 4 All right. We have now reached a 5 point -- and let me make the statement, we have 6 reached the point where we are at the 7 Administrative Law Court, Seat Number 6. One of 8 the candidates offering is on the judiciary 9 Committee staff, chairman of the Senate Judiciary 10 Committee. For that reason I am recusing myself 11 and will not be participating in any other 12 screenings for any of the candidates. 13 So with that, Representative Delleney, 14 if you'd be so kind as to take care over as 15 chairman. 16 (Off the record.) 17 MS. EDWARDS: Good evening. How are 18 you? 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Doing good. 20 We have before us tonight Ms. Latonya 21 D. Edwards who seeks the position on the 22 Administrative Law Court, Seat Number 6. 23 Ms. Edwards, if you would, please raise 24 your right hand to be sworn. 25 (Candidate sworn.) 0316 1 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: The Judicial 2 Merit Selection Comission has thoroughly 3 investigated your qualifications for service on the 4 bench, and our inquiries focused on nine evaluative 5 criteria which have included a survey of the bench 6 and bar, a thorough study of your application 7 materials, verification of your compliance with 8 state ethics laws, a search of newspaper articles 9 in which your name may appear, a study of any 10 previous screenings, a check for economic conflicts 11 of interest. 12 We have not received any affidavits in 13 opposition to your election, nor are there any 14 witnesses here to testify. 15 Do you have a brief opening statement 16 you'd like to make? 17 MS. EDWARDS: No. 18 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 19 ma'am. You'll get some points for that. 20 If you would, please answer any 21 questions that our able counsel Ms. Shuler might 22 have for you -- excuse me, Mr. Dixon (sic) might 23 have for you. 24 MR. DEASON: Mr. Chairman and members 25 of the Commission, I have a few procedural matters 0317 1 to take care of with this candidate. 2 Ms. Edwards, you have before you the 3 personal data questionnaire that you submitted as a 4 part of your application. Are there any amendments 5 you'd like to make at this time to that document? 6 MS. EDWARDS: There are none. 7 MR. DEASON: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 8 ask that Ms. Edwards' personal data questionnaire 9 be entered as an exhibit into the hearing record. 10 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 11 objection, it will be done at this point in the 12 transcript. 13 (EXH. 39, Personal Data Questionnaire 14 of Ms. Latonya Dilligard Edwards, admitted.) 15 MR. DEASON: Okay. Ms. Edwards, you 16 should have before you now the sworn statement 17 that -- that you provided with detailed answers to 18 over 30 questions regarding judicial conduct, 19 statutory qualifications, office administration, 20 and temperament. Are there any amendments that 21 you'd like to make to that document? 22 MS. EDWARDS: There are not. 23 MR. DEASON: Accordingly, Mr. Chairman, 24 I'd request that Ms. Edwards' sworn statement be 25 entered as an exhibit into the hearing record. 0318 1 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 2 objection. 3 (EXH. 40, Sworn Statement of Latonya 4 Dilligard Edwards, admitted.) 5 MR. DEASON: Okay. Based on the 6 testimony contained in the candidate's PDQ which 7 was included in the record with her consent, 8 Ms. Edwards meets the statutory requirements for 9 this position with regard to age, residence, and 10 years of practice. 11 Ms. Edwards, could you please tell us 12 why you now want to serve as an Administrative Law 13 Court judge. 14 MS. EDWARDS: Yes. Basically because I 15 think that I would be honored to be a part of what 16 I consider to be the last step in protecting 17 somebody's rights, a judge. Like I said before, 18 it's an awesome responsibility, and I would be 19 honored to serve in that capacity and be a part of 20 that process. 21 MR. DEASON: Could you please explain 22 to the Commission how you feel your legal and 23 professional experience thus far will assist you to 24 be an effective Administrative Law Court judge. 25 MS. EDWARDS: Yes. To me a judge -- a 0319 1 judge's demeanor is to interpret the law. Once you 2 learn how to interpret the law and apply it to the 3 particular facts, that's the -- the crux, for lack 4 of a better word, of what a judge does. 5 When I was in law school, of course I 6 had the opportunity to hone my skills and 7 abilities. I also -- since law school I have 8 served in various capacities which I believe has 9 allowed me the ability to interpret laws. When I 10 served as the Richland County -- assistant Richland 11 County attorney, I appeared before the 12 Administrative Law Court. 13 When I served as general counsel of the 14 Commission for the Blind, I also represented that 15 agency before administrative bodies such as EEOC, 16 Human Affairs, the state grievance panel. And 17 while the subject area or the agency came within 18 the purview of the Administrative Law Court, I 19 never had to appear before the Court while I served 20 at the South Carolina Commission for the Blind. 21 Currently I serve as general counsel 22 for the Second Injury Fund, and while I do not 23 appear before the Administrative Law Court in that 24 capacity, I do -- the South Carolina Workers' Comp 25 Commission is another administrative body that I 0320 1 think the practice and procedure would probably be 2 on par for the same practice and procedure as it 3 relates to the Administrative Law Court. 4 So I believe that while I haven't had a 5 lot of administrative law experience in that 6 particular subject area, I believe that the 7 knowledge and experience that I've gained 8 throughout my practice will allow me to be a great 9 Administrative Law Court judge. 10 MR. DEASON: Thank you. 11 Are there any areas, including 12 subjective areas of the law, that you would need 13 additional preparation for in order to ably serve 14 as Administrative Law Court judge and how would you 15 handle that responsibility? 16 MS. EDWARDS: Well, as always, I think 17 there's always -- even for sitting judges, there's 18 always room for improvement. And so if there's an 19 area that I thought that I was deficient in, I 20 certainly would read up on that area. I would 21 attend CLEs and research it thoroughly to make sure 22 that I'm administering justice the way it should 23 be. 24 And so there probably will be areas 25 where I would need to gain more experience in, but 0321 1 I think becoming a judge and actually learning more 2 about those areas, that that won't be a problem 3 because, like I said, I believe even sitting judges 4 learn as they go through the process on a regular 5 basis, depending on how often those matters come 6 before their court. 7 MR. DEASON: While -- although you 8 addressed this in your sworn affidavit, will you 9 please explain to the members of Commission what 10 you think is the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 11 MS. EDWARDS: Yes. I think a judge 12 should always treat people professionally. A judge 13 should be courteous. A judge should give all the 14 litigants and people who appear before the Court 15 the respect and professionalism that -- that 16 they're entitled to, and it doesn't -- it doesn't 17 matter what -- you know, what type -- or what 18 attorney is there or what type of playing field. 19 Everybody deserves the same degree of respect, and 20 I think that a judge should ensure that they're 21 providing that type of professionalism to everybody 22 that appears before that judge. 23 MR. DEASON: Okay. Thank you. 24 The next several questions are just 25 housekeeping related to your candidacy. 0322 1 Have you sought or received the pledge 2 of any legislator prior to this date? 3 MS. EDWARDS: I have not. 4 MR. DEASON: Have you sought or have 5 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 6 any legislator pending the outcome of this 7 screening? 8 MS. EDWARDS: I have not. 9 MR. DEASON: Have you asked any third 10 parties to contact any members of the General 11 Assembly on your behalf? 12 MS. EDWARDS: I have not. 13 MR. DEASON: Have you contacted any 14 members of this Commission? 15 MS. EDWARDS: I have not. 16 MR. DEASON: Do you understand that 17 you're prohibited from seeking a pledge or 18 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 19 of this Commission's report? 20 MS. EDWARDS: I do. 21 MR. DEASON: Have you reviewed the 22 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 23 MS. EDWARDS: I have. 24 MR. DEASON: As a follow-up, are you 25 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 0323 1 rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and upon 2 conviction the violator must be fined not more than 3 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 4 MS. EDWARDS: I do. 5 MR. DEASON: I would like to note that 6 the Midlands Citizens Committee reported that 7 Ms. Edwards enjoys an outstanding reputation among 8 the legal community and her character is above 9 reproach. 10 Finally, I note that any concerns 11 raised during the investigation regarding 12 Ms. Edwards were incorporated into my questioning 13 of the candidate this evening. 14 I have no further questions, 15 Mr. Chairman. 16 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Does any 17 member of the Commission have any questions for 18 Ms. Edwards? 19 There being none, thank you, 20 Ms. Edwards, for being here with us here tonight. 21 And this concludes this portion of the screening 22 which is the public hearing portion of the 23 screening, and as you know, the record remains open 24 until the report is issued. And we can call you 25 back at any time to ask you more questions if we 0324 1 wanted to. Once the report is issued of course 48 2 hours later it becomes the -- when it's first 3 issued, it's the draft report and 48 hours later it 4 becomes the official report of this Commission 5 which it's over. That's our final product. 6 But, anyway, I'd remind you about the 7 48-hour rule and ask you to be mindful of that, and 8 if someone contacts you and wants to advocate for 9 you, we appreciate your also reminding them of the 10 48-hour rule. 11 Again, we'd like to thank you for your 12 willingness to participate and your willingness to 13 serve and wish you the best and hope you have a 14 safe trip back home. 15 MS. EDWARDS: Thank you very much. 16 (Candidate excused.) 17 (Off the record.) 18 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Good evening, 19 Mr. Griffin. 20 If you would -- we have with us The 21 Honorable B. Keith Griffin who seeks a position on 22 the Administrative Law Court Seat Number 6. 23 At this time, if you would, please 24 raise your right hand to be sworn, Mr. Griffin. 25 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 0325 1 (Candidate sworn.) 2 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 3 sir. 4 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 5 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 6 service on the bench. Our inquiries primarily 7 focused on nine evaluative criteria which have 8 included a survey of the bench and bar, a thorough 9 study of your application materials, verification 10 of your compliance with state ethics laws, a search 11 of newspaper articles in which your name may 12 appear, a study of any previous screenings, and a 13 check for economic conflicts of interest. 14 We have not received any affidavits in 15 opposition to your election, nor are there any 16 witnesses here to testify. 17 Do you have a brief opening statement 18 you'd like to make? 19 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Just very briefly. I 20 know this has been a long day now, and I'll -- so 21 I'll keep my words to a minimum. 22 Just excited to be here and thank y'all 23 for letting me come forward and file for this seat. 24 Sort of at a career crossroads, so to speak. I've 25 been a magistrate judge for seven years and been 0326 1 thinking a lot about whether to seek further 2 judicial office or go back into private practice or 3 quite frankly to stay in my current position. And 4 this was an unexpected opening, and I quite frankly 5 decided just to give it a go and here I am and look 6 forward to answering any questions that y'all have. 7 And I guess y'all have the floor. 8 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 9 Mr. Griffin. 10 If you would, answer any questions our 11 able counsel might have for you. 12 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 13 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 14 Mr. Chairman, members of the 15 Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take 16 care of with this candidate. 17 And, Judge Griffin, you submitted a 18 personal data -- data questionnaire as part of your 19 application. Is there any amendment you would like 20 to make at this time to your PDQ? 21 JUDGE GRIFFIN: There was one amendment 22 to the PDQ. I had a clerical error in reference to 23 one of the questions. I think the answer I gave 24 was are mutually exclusive when the answer should 25 have been are not mutually exclusive. It referred 0327 1 to my service as deacon in my church. I was just 2 trying to indicate quite frankly the two have 3 nothing to do with each other. They're separate 4 and independent of the other, and I had a clerical 5 error on the application. 6 But other than -- other than that, I 7 think that was the only amendment to the PDQ. 8 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 9 At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would 10 like to ask that Judge Griffin's personal data 11 question -- questionnaire and the amendment be 12 entered as an exhibit into the hearing record. 13 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 14 objection, it will be made part of the record at 15 this point in the transcript. 16 (EXH. 41, Personal Data Questionnaire 17 of Mr. B. Keith Griffin, admitted.) 18 MR. FIFFICK: Judge Griffin, you have 19 before you also the sworn statement you provided 20 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 21 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 22 qualifications, office administration, and 23 temperament. Is there any amendment you would like 24 to make at this time to your sworn statement? 25 JUDGE GRIFFIN: I don't believe so. 0328 1 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 2 At this time, Mr. Chairman, I would 3 ask -- ask that Judge Griffin's sworn statement 4 and -- as not amended be entered as an exhibit into 5 the hearing record. 6 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 7 objection. 8 (EXH. 42, Sworn Statement of B. Keith 9 Griffin, admitted.) 10 MR. FIFFICK: With that, I'd also note 11 for the record that based on testimony contained in 12 the candidate's PDQ which has been included in the 13 record with the candidate's consent, Judge Griffin 14 meets the statutory requirements for this position 15 regarding age, residence, and years of practice. 16 Judge Griffin, why do you want to serve 17 as an Administrative Law Court judge? 18 JUDGE GRIFFIN: As I previously stated, 19 I'm sort of, again, at a career crossroads. I've 20 served seven years as a magistrate judge without 21 complaint and I've enjoyed my service. It's a -- 22 it's one job that I feel like it could be a 23 requirement that every lawyer should have just 24 because you learn how to address the public and 25 learn how to relate to the public, and also you're 0329 1 exposed to a wide area of the law. 2 There's -- my reasons for seeking this 3 position are very similar to that. I feel like 4 I've served ably as a magistrate. You know, at any 5 judicial office your basic job is to interpret the 6 law, whether it be statutes or whether it be in the 7 course of the Administrative Law Court's case a 8 number of administrative regulations. 9 I feel like when I got my master's job 10 at age 28, I was sort of thrown into the fire and 11 have managed to -- to keep afloat. I feel like -- 12 with this job I feel like my past experience as a 13 magistrate, as -- serving as a judge, learning 14 judicial temperament, learning how to -- to 15 formally run a courtroom would serve me well in the 16 Administrative Law Court. 17 As I stated, the diversity of the 18 Administrative Law Court is an attractive thing to 19 me. You're not going to be dealing with the same 20 type of case on a daily basis. You're going to be 21 dealing with a variety of state agencies, anything 22 from something with possibly Labor, Licensing and 23 Regulation all the way to something with the Office 24 of Coastal Resource Management. 25 It is the diversity of the litigation 0330 1 that attracted me to the job in the first place. 2 Obviously having a nonjury court is something that 3 I've gotten a lot of experience with and something 4 that I've gotten quite accustomed to doing. So 5 from that standpoint it's really the diversity of 6 the job. You know, you're not doing the same 7 things. It's not monotonous. Of course you're 8 going to have some of the same cases, but as I 9 said, the variety of the docket is something that I 10 feel like would be something that I would like to 11 give a shot and something that is attractive. 12 MR. FIFFICK: In addition to how you've 13 already described your past experience, can you 14 explain to the Commission how you feel that legal 15 and professional experience will help you be an 16 effective legislator -- administrative law judge. 17 JUDGE GRIFFIN: I feel like it will 18 be -- make me an effective Administrative Law judge 19 because I don't have to be trained on how to deal 20 with lawyers or pro se litigants for that matter. 21 We have a number of pro se litigants in the 22 Administrative Law Court, and of course I deal with 23 a number of pro se litigants on a daily basis as a 24 magistrate, and from that standpoint I won't need 25 to be trained. I won't need to learn how to relate 0331 1 to those person's arguments and things that they 2 may bring to the Court. 3 I also feel like that past experience 4 will give me the requisite temperament to deal 5 sometimes with a case that might be contentious or 6 difficult regardless of whether it's a pro se 7 litigant or someone that's represented by counsel. 8 As I said, I've sort of been in some situations -- 9 in magistrate court the stakes are much less in the 10 magistrate's court as summary court, but it's no 11 less a court for those persons that are in front of 12 you. In a lot of cases you're going to be the only 13 judge that person ever sees. 14 So from the standpoint of how I handle 15 my business there, I would take it the 16 Administrative Law Court with me, and I feel like 17 the -- the way I administer my court -- or run my 18 court would serve me well there just from the 19 standpoint of it's really no different except 20 you're dealing with in this case, you know, a 21 different type the of law, different type of -- you 22 know, of course state regulations. But from the -- 23 at the heart of it you're still dealing with 24 litigants and you're still dealing -- you're still 25 dealing with lawyers. 0332 1 So I feel like the seven years that 2 I've been on the bench would certainly serve me 3 well, you know, hundreds and -- you know, hundreds 4 of cases. You know, whether it be jury trials or 5 nonjury trials, I feel like while I would have to 6 hit the ground running somewhat with just the 7 different administrative regulations that I'd be 8 dealing with the rest of the -- I guess stepping 9 into the job would not be such a big adjustment. 10 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 11 And based on your legal experience and 12 areas of practice thus far, what are the areas you 13 feel you need to additionally prepare for and how 14 would you go about that additional preparation? 15 JUDGE GRIFFIN: The -- in reference to 16 that, quite frankly, you know, if you don't 17 practice in front of the Administrative Law Court, 18 you have very little exposure to the Administrative 19 Law Court. Unless you work for a state agency or 20 unless you've been aggrieved by an agency decision 21 you're going to have a -- very few areas or very 22 few chances to get in front of the Administrative 23 Law Court or whether you've requested a public 24 hearing for that matter. 25 Quite frankly it would just be my 0333 1 position that I would have to -- I've already 2 started with that as far as doing research on my 3 own in reference to the screening exam that we of 4 course have already taken. Of course I went back 5 through the -- technically the advance sheets of 6 the Administrative Law Court because I would have 7 to brush up on all of those. You know, I haven't 8 had much exposure to that court, so I'm not going 9 to sit here and tell y'all a lie that I've been in 10 front of that court a lot because I haven't. 11 So it would just take a -- just a 12 gradual study of the law to get up to speed. I 13 don't think that would take an extremely long time. 14 The procedure rules in Administrative Law Court are 15 different than, for example, the civil procedure 16 rules for Circuit Court and the rules for 17 Magistrates Court, but as I said, once you get use 18 to the different procedure -- I feel like that 19 would be the hardest part because the rules are 20 very different. 21 The issue on the law, again, I feel 22 like would just be how you read the regulation, how 23 you read the law and how you interpret it, but the 24 procedural law would be the toughest, and I feel 25 like through taking the exam -- and I've of course 0334 1 been in constant study since then -- that I would 2 just have to keep -- keep with it, to be blunt. 3 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 4 And although you addressed this in your 5 sworn affidavit and touched on it here in the 6 hearing today, please tell -- tell the members of 7 the Commission what you think is an appropriate 8 demeanor for a judge. 9 JUDGE GRIFFIN: The appropriate 10 demeanor for a judge is patience. A judge should 11 not have to raise their voice to a litigant unless 12 it's absolutely necessary. It is my position that 13 my current job has allowed me to develop 14 temperament beyond my expectations. When you're 15 dealing with -- with folks who are angry -- and a 16 lot of times in Magistrates Court they are very 17 angry since they're possibly facing their freedom 18 being taken away from them or being -- having a 19 restraining order granted against them. 20 They're going to talk to you in a 21 certain way, and you just have to be -- you have to 22 be confident and not cocky. You address them. 23 Their -- this robe makes you no better than them, 24 and when you talk to them, you look them in the 25 eye. You explain your ruling. That doesn't mean 0335 1 they're necessarily going to like what you're 2 telling them, but they're litigants. Regardless of 3 representation, you treat them like people. 4 That's why I say temperament for a 5 judge has to be patient. You have to be firm 6 because you have to get your points across. You 7 have to get why you're making your ruling across to 8 the litigant. But in the same hand when that 9 litigant leaves your courtroom, you want to at 10 least give them the impression that you've been the 11 fairest judge you can be on that particular day and 12 time, whether it be in explaining your ruling, 13 handling objections or quite frankly just dealing 14 with something. If an argument develops in the 15 courtroom, you have to be firm, but there's no 16 reason to think you're better than the litigant. 17 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you, Judge Griffin. 18 I now just have a few more questions 19 question we ask of every candidate. 20 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 21 MR. FIFFICK: Have you sought or 22 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 23 date? 24 JUDGE GRIFFIN: No, sir. 25 MR. FIFFICK: Have you sought or have 0336 1 you been offered a conditional pledge of support by 2 any legislator pending the outcome of your 3 screening? 4 JUDGE GRIFFIN: No, sir. 5 MR. FIFFICK: Have you asked any third 6 party -- third parties to contact members of the 7 General Assembly on your behalf? 8 JUDGE GRIFFIN: No, sir. 9 MR. FIFFICK: Have you contacted any 10 members of the Commission? 11 JUDGE GRIFFIN: No. Only just for 12 administrative matters. In other words, to ask for 13 the amendment to my PDQ. 14 MR. FIFFICK: Do you understand that 15 you are prohibited from seeking a pledge or 16 commitment until 48 hours after the formal release 17 of the Commission's report? 18 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 19 MR. FIFFICK: Have you reviewed the 20 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 21 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 22 MR. FIFFICK: As a follow-up, are you 23 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 24 rules, that is, it is a misdemeanor and upon 25 conviction a violator must be fined not more than 0337 1 $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 2 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 3 MR. FIFFICK: Thank you. 4 I would now note that Pee Dee Citizens 5 Committee reported that Judge Griffin is well 6 qualified in all areas. 7 Finally, I would also note for the 8 record that any concerns raised during the 9 investigation regarding the candidate today were 10 incorporated into the questioning of the candidate 11 today. 12 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 13 questions. 14 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Does any 15 member of the Commission have any questions for 16 Mr. Griffin? 17 There being none, thank you, 18 Mr. Griffin, for appearing before us tonight, and 19 this concludes this portion of the screening 20 process which is the public hearing portion. 21 However, the record will remain open until such 22 time as a draft report is published. 23 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Yes, sir. 24 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: And we can 25 call you back any time to ask you more questions if 0338 1 we so chose. Once the 48 hours expires, the draft 2 report becomes the report of this Commission which 3 is the final report. 4 And I would remind you about the 5 48-hour rule, about seeking commitments or having 6 anyone advocate on your behalf, and if anyone 7 contacts you about advocating on your behalf, I 8 would -- we would like you to remind them about the 9 48-hour rule. 10 With that said, we'd like to thank you 11 for offering to -- for -- for the Court and hope 12 you have a safe trip back home. 13 JUDGE GRIFFIN: Same to y'all. Y'all 14 have a nice evening. Thank y'all for letting me 15 appear. 16 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you. 17 (Candidate excused.) 18 (Off the record.) 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Evening, 20 Mr. Holmes. 21 MR. HOLMES: Good evening, 22 Representative Delleney. 23 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We have 24 before us this evening Mr. Christopher McGowan 25 Holmes who seeks the position with the 0339 1 Administrative Law Court, Seat Number 6. 2 If you would, at this time please raise 3 your right hand to be sworn. 4 (Candidate sworn.) 5 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 6 sir. 7 The Judicial Merit Selection Comission 8 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 9 service on the bench. Our inquiry has primarily 10 focused on nine evaluative criteria which have 11 included a survey of the bench and bar, a thorough 12 study of your application materials, verification 13 of your compliance with state ethics laws, a search 14 of any newspaper articles in which your name may 15 have appeared, a study of any previous screenings, 16 a check for economic conflicts of interest. 17 We have not received any affidavits in 18 opposition to your candidacy, nor are there any 19 witnesses here to testify. 20 Do you have a brief opening statement 21 you'd like to make? 22 MR. HOLMES: I do have some comments 23 I'd like to make sure I get into the record at some 24 point in the event that they're not raised by 25 questions that the Committee might have. But right 0340 1 now just go through -- 2 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Well, we 3 would give you an opportunity -- 4 MR. HOLMES: However you want to do it. 5 It's not the first time I've been here obviously, 6 so some of you know about my background. 7 I just want to say that I really feel 8 like I have grown up with administrative 9 environmental law in this state. When I was in law 10 school, there were no environmental law courses let 11 alone an environmental law department, and one 12 administrative law course. And nine months after 13 being admitted to the bar, I was hired as an 14 attorney for a state agency that had just been 15 created, an environmental agency with permitting 16 processes and regulations to develop, hearing 17 procedures to develop, and we went through all this 18 cutting it from whole cloth. We didn't know the 19 courts -- how they were going to react to it. And 20 so I've watched it evolve over the years, and when 21 I left the agency, I continued to practice in this 22 arena. 23 I have real -- a real feeling for 24 administrative law. A passion is the word for it. 25 I've stayed in that area because I find it -- 0341 1 something compelling about it. The lawyers who 2 practice regularly in front of the Administrative 3 Law Court is a relatively smaller subset of the 4 overall bar, but they're very -- we -- so you run 5 into each other a lot, and it's a very collegial 6 group. And I enjoy being in their company, and 7 they enjoin mine. We get along well. 8 So I like that aspect of it. I really 9 like the judges that I've appeared in front of. I 10 have deep admiration and respect for them and the 11 work they do. And based on feedback from them, I 12 believe they have some respect for me and my 13 abilities. 14 And I have been involved in the 15 evolution of administrative and environmental law 16 in this state and I think in a positive way and I 17 want to continue doing that. And I think in a 18 candidate you want someone who has that sort of a 19 love and compassion for the area of law because I 20 would imagine that this would be a difficult job. 21 I know it's hard to prepare and 22 advocate just -- this is one position to advocate 23 in a contested case, and I would imagine it's 24 exponentially more difficult if you're having to 25 listen to two or more prepared counsel advocating 0342 1 competing issues that you then have to decide which 2 side to come down on. 3 So you need somebody who cares about it 4 so that -- and recognizes the importance and 5 potential ramifications of decisions they make. 6 And I would bring that commitment and passion with 7 me, I assure you. 8 I was an advocate of the creation of 9 the Administrative Law Court system. It is so 10 vastly superior to the old hearing officer system 11 we had in any number of ways. And I testified in 12 front of bar committees and legislative 13 subcommittees regarding changes that have elevated 14 I think, what I'd say, the dignity of the 15 Administrative Law Court decisions so that now 16 instead of being reviewed by lay boards their 17 decisions are final and go to the Court of Appeals, 18 and I think that's important. 19 And I would continue to push for 20 advocates like that on behalf of the Court. That 21 being said... 22 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 23 sir. 24 If you would answer any questions our 25 able counsel might have for you at this time, sir. 0343 1 MR. HOLMES: Yes, sir. 2 MR. FULMER: Okay. Thank you, 3 Mr. Holmes. 4 Mr. Chairman, members of the 5 Commission, I have a few procedural matters to take 6 up with Mr. Holmes. 7 Mr. Holmes, I believe we have before 8 you a personal data questionnaire you submitted as 9 part of your application. Are there any amendments 10 that you would like to make to that PDQ at this 11 time? 12 MR. HOLMES: No, sir. 13 MR. FULMER: Mr. Chairman, I would ask 14 that Mr. Holmes' personal data questionnaire be 15 entered as an exhibit in the record. 16 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 17 objection, it will be done at this point in the 18 transcript. 19 (EXH. 43, Personal Data Questionnaire 20 of Mr. Christopher McGowan Holmes, admitted.) 21 MR. FULMER: Next you'll have -- you 22 should have before you your sworn statement where 23 you provided detailed answers to over 30 questions 24 regarding the judicial conduct, statutory 25 qualifications, office administration, and 0344 1 temperament. Is there any amendments you'd like to 2 make at this time to your sworn statement? 3 MR. HOLMES: No, sir. 4 MR. FULMER: And, Mr. Chairman, I would 5 like to ask that Mr. Holmes' sworn statement also 6 be admitted as an exhibit into the hearing record. 7 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 8 objection. 9 (EXH. 44, Sworn Statement of 10 Christopher McGowan Holmes, admitted.) 11 MR. FULMER: One final procedural 12 matter. I note for the record that based on the 13 testimony contained in the PDQ which has been 14 included in the record with the candidate's 15 consent, Mr. Holmes meets the statutory 16 requirements for this position regarding age, 17 residence, and years of practice. 18 Mr. Holmes, why do you now want to 19 serve in this capacity as Administrative Law judge? 20 MR. HOLMES: I think for the reasons I 21 really set forth in my opening statement is pretty 22 much it. As I say, I have a real feeling and 23 passion for this area of the law. I feel like I've 24 been in on the birth of it. It's a growing, 25 evolving area that new laws are being passed or at 0345 1 the time new regulations. I envision they'll be 2 legislating legislation but certainly regulations 3 regarding renewable energy and green technologies, 4 all these types of things. It's a growing area, 5 and I'd like to be continue to be a part of that. 6 MR. FULMER: You may have answered this 7 question, but I'll -- I'll see if you want to 8 explain anything further. 9 Can you explain to the Commission how 10 you feel your legal and professional experience 11 thus far will assist you in being an effective 12 judge. 13 MR. HOLMES: Well, just primarily 14 because I've been doing it for 30 years, I guess. 15 I've appeared in front of all the former ALJs and 16 most of the present ones. I've been -- appeared in 17 front of hearing officers. I've worked on 18 legislation involving the Court, and I've worked 19 on -- I developed a permitting program for a state 20 agency and regulations for an agency. I know -- 21 I've been through that process. I'm familiar with 22 the procedures of the Court. So I think by my 23 training and background -- I have the knowledge 24 necessary to be an effective judge. 25 MR. FULMER: Do you believe there are 0346 1 any areas, including subjective areas of law, that 2 you need additional preparation to serve as a 3 judge? Anywhere where you need additional 4 preparation? 5 MR. HOLMES: Additional preparation, 6 I -- well, I mean, I know it's been noted in the 7 past that my -- my area has primarily been in 8 environmental permitting with DHEC and not some of 9 the other labor, licensing, OSHA, these types of 10 things. But I really believe it's the process, 11 it's the procedure of the Court that's set up and 12 every case proceeds along that procedure. 13 So while I may not have a specific 14 training or background in some specific area of the 15 law, it's a matter of reading the statutes and 16 regulations, and I believe I have the capability to 17 read and understand it. And I know under the 18 procedures, the lawyers have to advise the Court of 19 applicable statutes and regulations and case law. 20 And I think my background demonstrates that I'm 21 able to read and comprehend those types of things 22 and reach a -- reach a decision. 23 MR. FULMER: You already expressed -- 24 you know, addressed this issue in your affidavit. 25 Would you please explain to the members of the 0347 1 Commission what you think is the appropriate 2 demeanor of a judge. 3 MR. HOLMES: The appropriate demeanor 4 of a judge, I think a judge is -- he needs to come 5 into court prepared. He needs to be courteous, but 6 he needs to have control of his courtroom. He 7 needs to be thoughtful, fair. I think he needs to 8 render decisions in a timely fashion. I would say 9 those are the demeanors. 10 MR. FULMER: And at the point in time 11 that you leave the bench, what do you wish to be 12 your legacy as far as having been an administrative 13 law judge? 14 MR. HOLMES: Similar to those lines, 15 that they're going to say, you know, "He was always 16 prepared. He was thorough. He was fair, that 17 he -- excuse me. That he was courteous and timely 18 in decision making." To paraphrase the late Bubba 19 Ness, he may have been in error, but he was never 20 in doubt. 21 MR. FULMER: Thank you, Mr. Holmes. 22 I've just got some housekeeping issues that we ask 23 everybody in general. 24 MR. HOLMES: Okay. 25 MR. FULMER: Have you sought or 0348 1 received the pledge of any legislator prior to this 2 date? 3 MR. HOLMES: I have not. 4 MR. FULMER: Have you sought or have 5 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 6 any legislator pending the outcome of your 7 screening? 8 MR. HOLMES: I have not. 9 MR. FULMER: Have you asked any third 10 party to contact members of the General Assembly on 11 your behalf? 12 MR. HOLMES: I have not. 13 MR. FULMER: Have you contacted any 14 members of the Commission? 15 MR. HOLMES: I have not. 16 MR. FULMER: Do you understand that you 17 are prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 18 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 19 Commission report? 20 MR. HOLMES: I do. 21 MR. FULMER: Have you reviewed the 22 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 23 MR. HOLMES: Yes, I have. 24 MR. FULMER: And as follow-up, are you 25 aware that the penalties for violating the pledging 0349 1 rules -- that is, that there are -- it's a 2 misdemeanor and upon conviction a violator can be 3 fined no more than a thousand and imprisoned not 4 more than 90 days? 5 MR. HOLMES: I am aware of that. 6 MR. FULMER: I'd like to at this time 7 give the report of the Judicial Qualifications 8 Committee -- of the Qualifications Committee and 9 the Lowcountry Citizens Committee. 10 The Judicial Qualifications Committee 11 of South Carolina found Mr. Holmes qualified in all 12 nine evaluative criteria. They also noted, quote, 13 Although in excess of 30 calls were placed, due to 14 the candidate's unique practice area a limited 15 number of calls were completed, end quote. The 16 Lowcountry Citizens Committee found Mr. Holmes, 17 quote, well qualified, end quote, for each of the 18 nine evaluative criteria: The Constitutional 19 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 20 academic ability, character, reputation, physical 21 health, mental stability, experience, and judicial 22 temperament. 23 Would you like to offer any response in 24 reference to the, you know, comment by the Judicial 25 Qualification Committee about the limited number of 0350 1 calls? 2 MR. HOLMES: I'm not really familiar 3 with the process by which they select who they're 4 going to call. I know that's come up in the past. 5 I think because of the geographic area that I 6 practice in and the limited area, I probably have a 7 lower profile than a lot of members of the bar. I 8 mean, I'm certain I can provide the Commission or 9 the bar well in excess of 30 names of lawyers who 10 know me who practice with me. 11 They did ask -- this time was the first 12 time when they asked, "Will you provide names of 13 five people that you practice against?" which I 14 thought was a good way for it, and I hopefully 15 would have addressed some of those concerns. 16 MR. FULMER: I'd just like to note for 17 the record that any concerns raised during the 18 investigation regarding the candidate were 19 incorporated in the questioning of the candidate 20 today. 21 Mr. Chairman, I have no further 22 questions. 23 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 24 sir. 25 Does any member of the Commission have 0351 1 any questions for Mr. Holmes? 2 There being none, Mr. Holmes, thank you 3 for appearing before us tonight, and thank you for 4 your willingness to participate in the process. 5 This concludes this portion of your 6 screening process -- the public hearing process. 7 However, the record remains open until the draft 8 report is issued, until that draft report turns 9 into the final report after the expiration of 48 10 hours. And up until that time we could call you 11 back to ask you more questions if we thought it 12 necessary. Of course I don't think that's going to 13 be necessary, and I don't know of any reason we 14 would do that. 15 I would remind you about the 48-hour 16 rule, and I would remind you that if anyone seeks 17 to advocate on your behalf, that you remind them 18 about the 48-hour rule. 19 And with that, we hope you have a safe 20 trip back to Charleston. 21 MR. HOLMES: Thank you so much. Thank 22 you all. 23 (Candidate excused.) 24 (Off the record.) 25 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Good evening, 0352 1 Mr. Lenski. 2 MR. LENSKI: Good evening. 3 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We have 4 before us today Mr. Sebastian Phillip Lenski. 5 Mr. Lenski, do you have some folks 6 you'd like to introduce to us tonight? 7 MR. LENSKI: Yes, I do, Representative 8 Delleney. Thank you very much. 9 Ladies and gentlemen, I have my family 10 here with me, my wife Laura and my three sons. 11 This is Jacob, my oldest boy. He's nine. The 12 redheaded young man. Joseph is on the other side 13 of his mother with blond hair, and then Michael in 14 the middle in his mom's lap. That's my family. 15 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We appreciate 16 you bringing them in here tonight to introduce them 17 us to him. 18 MR. LENSKI: Thank you. 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We don't get 20 to see them very much. 21 MR. LENSKI: No. 22 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Mr. Lenski 23 seeks a position on Administrative Law Court, Seat 24 Number 6. 25 If you would, at this time raise your 0353 1 right hand to be sworn. 2 (Candidate sworn.) 3 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 4 sir. 5 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 6 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 7 service on the bench. Our inquiry has primarily 8 focused on nine evaluative criteria, which have 9 included a survey of the bench and bar, a study of 10 your application materials, verification of your 11 compliance with state ethics laws, a search of 12 newspaper articles in which your name may have 13 appeared, a study of any previous screenings, and a 14 check for economic conflicts of interest. 15 There are no affidavits presented on 16 hand in opposition to your election, nor are there 17 any witnesses here to testify. 18 Do you have a brief opening statement 19 you'd like to make? 20 MR. LENSKI: No, I do not considering 21 the -- the hour. I'm just very honored to be here 22 and happy to answer any questions you have for me. 23 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 24 sir. 25 Answer any questions Patrick might have 0354 1 for you. 2 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Lenski, good evening. 3 Thank you for joining us tonight. 4 MR. LENSKI: Good evening. 5 MR. DENNIS: I've got just a couple 6 procedural things I'm going to run through with 7 you. 8 Do you have before you a copy of your 9 personal data questionnaire that you submitted as 10 part of your application? 11 MR. LENSKI: Yes, sir, I do. 12 MR. DENNIS: Are there any amendments 13 that you'd like to make to that document at this 14 time? 15 MR. LENSKI: There are none. 16 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to 17 ask that Mr. Lenski's PDQ be entered as an exhibit 18 into the hearing record. 19 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: It will be 20 done at this point in the transcript. 21 (EXH. 45, Personal Data Questionnaire 22 of Mr. S. Phillip Lenski, admitted.) 23 MR. DENNIS: Mr. Lenski, you also have 24 before you your sworn statement in which you 25 provided the answers to over 30 questions regarding 0355 1 judicial conduct, statutory qualifications, office 2 administration, and temperament. Are there any 3 amendments you'd like to make to that document at 4 this time? 5 MR. LENSKI: No. 6 MR. DENNIS: And, again, Mr. Chairman, 7 I'd like to ask that Mr. Lenski's sworn statement 8 be entered as an exhibit into the hearing record. 9 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 10 objection. 11 (EXH. 46, Sworn Statement of S. Phillip 12 Lenski, admitted.) 13 MR. DENNIS: There's one final 14 procedural note. I would note for the record that 15 based on the testimony contained in the candidate's 16 P -- PDQ which has been included in the record with 17 the candidate's consent, Mr. Lenski meets the 18 statutory requirements for this position regarding 19 age, residence, and years of practice. 20 Mr. Lenski, can you tell the Commission 21 why you want to serve as an Administrative Law 22 Court judge. 23 MR. LENSKI: Yes, I can. I have been 24 interested in and -- and wanted to serve on the 25 Administrative Law Court since I started practicing 0356 1 administrative law which was back in 1995 when I 2 first started practicing law in South Carolina. I 3 was a criminal prosecutor with the Army for about 4 six years, and then after I left active duty with 5 the Army, I took a job with the insurance 6 department. 7 At that time I practiced administrative 8 law in front of the Court then with regard to -- we 9 did rate hearings at that time, and then also agent 10 disciplinary actions were tried before the 11 Administrative Law Court on a contested case basis. 12 Now, it was at that time during that 18 13 months that I worked there at the insurance 14 department that I developed an interest in 15 Administrative Law Court. Law then I went on to 16 the division -- to the Department of Labor, 17 Licensing and Regulation. And while I was there 18 for six and a half years, I did all of the 19 disciplinary actions for about a dozen of the 38 20 boards that the Department of Labor, Licensing and 21 Regulation handles, and I handled all of the 22 disciplinary actions that were appealed to the 23 Administrative Law Court court from those boards 24 and did the -- the hearings themselves and the 25 appeals before the Court of Appeal -- before the 0357 1 Administrative Law Court and then on to the Court 2 of Appeals if we went from there. 3 But it was during that eight-year 4 period of time that I practiced Administrative Law 5 Court law that I developed a great interest in the 6 court. I learned a lot about the Administrative 7 Law Court. Really I developed an expertise in that 8 area of the law, and when I came over to this 9 position with the Senate in late 2002, I had always 10 had in my mind that I wanted to perhaps return to 11 the Administrative Law Court and practice, and this 12 is an opportunity for me to do so, and that's why 13 I'm seeking to have that opportunity. Thank you. 14 MR. DENNIS: Thank you, Mr. Lenski. 15 Given your wide and varied background, 16 do you feel like there are any subjective areas of 17 the law or anything else that you might need some 18 extra preparation in before taking the bench as the 19 Administrative Law Court judge, and how would you 20 seek that extra preparation? 21 MR. LENSKI: Well, I believe that I am 22 ready to -- to take the bench. I do believe that 23 there are some areas that I have not practiced in 24 that -- some areas of the jurisdiction of the 25 Administrative Law Court that I have less 0358 1 experience in than others. For example, with 2 regard to the liquor licensing issues that are 3 handled by the department -- or by the Labor, 4 Licensing and Regulation from the Department of 5 Revenue, those matters would be an area that I 6 would need to pay very careful attention to and 7 study extra hard when I get a case like that. In 8 addition, the Certificate of Need cases, which 9 while I have followed those and attempted to 10 educate myself as to those proceedings, that's not 11 an area that I have a tremendous amount of 12 experience in and I would need to -- to bone up on 13 that, for example. 14 However, I think with regard to any 15 area that you move into, you have more or less 16 experience in certain areas, and I certainly know 17 that while I've been here with the Senate for the 18 last five and a half, six years working here, I 19 haven't been trying cases before the Administrative 20 Law Court. I certainly haven't forgotten all the 21 things that I learned or that experience that I 22 gathered, and those things I'm sure would come back 23 to me. 24 I keep up with the advance sheets. 25 I've been involved in drafting the legislation with 0359 1 regard to the appeals -- or, pardon me, the 2 amendments to the Administrative Procedures Act, 3 and I've tried to keep abreast of the law regarding 4 administrative procedure and, believe me, I have 5 done so. 6 And so with regards to those areas I 7 may be somewhat weak in, I would pay particular 8 attention, study extra hard, prepare myself for 9 those hearings, but, again, I do believe that 10 overall I'm ready to take that position in order to 11 be comfortable. 12 MR. DENNIS: Thank you. 13 You addressed briefly in your sworn 14 statement what you feel like the appropriate 15 demeanor for the judge to be, but would you go into 16 a little more detail for the Commission. 17 MR. LENSKI: When I appeared before you 18 before, I believe that I said two of the qualities 19 that I think that a judge should have -- two -- two 20 aspects of the judge's demeanor should be patience 21 and -- and politeness, and I do believe that those 22 are absolutely important. I think a judge should 23 be -- you must be patient when you have litigants 24 before you. 25 It's important that you give them an 0360 1 opportunity to present their case and that you 2 listen to them and be patient with that, especially 3 when you have people that are pro se. You need to 4 be -- you need to understand that legal proceedings 5 are complex and not something that a pro se 6 litigant may have much experience with, and you 7 have to be very patient to let that person present 8 their argument. 9 In addition, I think a judge must be 10 polite. The judges that don't demonstrate a degree 11 of politeness from the bench do a great disservice 12 to the bench. And that would be something that I 13 would want to always be would be polite. 14 But I also think that another thing is 15 a judge needs to be is persistent. And I think 16 that persistence is important in the sense that you 17 have to be persistent about getting to the facts of 18 the case. You have to be persistent about getting 19 a ruling in the matter. I mean, ultimately that's 20 what you're there to do is to make a decision, and 21 I think it's important that a judge move things 22 along and be persistent about making that happen. 23 Not to the point of being unfair, not 24 to the point of not letting someone present their 25 argument, but to the point that you need to get to 0361 1 the decision point and make the decision. It's 2 important for a judge to be persistent as well. 3 MR. DENNIS: Thank you, Mr. Lenski. 4 I'm going to run through just a couple 5 of technical things with you and finish up. 6 Have you sought or received the pledge 7 of any legislator prior to this date? 8 MR. LENSKI: I have not. 9 MR. DENNIS: Have you sought or have 10 you been offered a conditional pledge of support of 11 any legislator pending the outcome of your 12 screening? 13 MR. LENSKI: No, I have not. 14 MR. DENNIS: Have you asked any third 15 parties to contact members of the General Assembly 16 on your behalf? 17 MR. LENSKI: No. 18 MR. DENNIS: Have you contacted any 19 members of this Commission? 20 MR. LENSKI: No. 21 MR. DENNIS: Do you understand that you 22 are prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 23 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 24 Commission's report? 25 MR. LENSKI: I understand that. 0362 1 MR. DENNIS: Have you reviewed the 2 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 3 MR. LENSKI: Yes, I have. 4 MR. DENNIS: And you are aware that 5 there is a penalty for violating those rules of up 6 to $1,000 or being imprisoned for 90 days? 7 MR. LENSKI: I am aware of that. 8 MR. DENNIS: I would note, 9 Mr. Chairman, that the Midlands Citizen Committee 10 reported that Mr. Lenski is well qualified in all 11 nine of the evaluative criteria and went on to say 12 in summary, and I quote, The Committee was very 13 impressed by Mr. Lenski. We believe he is an 14 outstanding candidate in every respect. Mr. Lenski 15 is most eminently qualified to serve as an 16 Administrative Law Court judge, end quote. 17 I would also note for the record that 18 any concerns raised during the investigation 19 regarding the candidate were incorporated into the 20 questioning of the candidate today. 21 And, Mr. Chairman, I have nothing 22 further. 23 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Does any 24 member of the Commission have any questions for 25 Mr. Lenski? 0363 1 There being none, thank you, 2 Mr. Lenski, for being with us tonight and appearing 3 before us, and of course you know this concludes 4 this portion of your screening. As you well know, 5 the record will remain open until such time as the 6 draft report is issued, and then 48 hours later it 7 turns into the final report. 8 Remind you about the 48-hour rule and 9 remind you to remind anybody else that might seek 10 to advocate for you about the 48-hour rule. 11 And with that, we thank you and your 12 family for being with us here tonight and hope you 13 have a safe trip back home. 14 MR. LENSKI: Thank you very much. Have 15 a nice evening. 16 (Candidate excused.) 17 (Off the record.) 18 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Good evening, 19 Judge Martin. How are you? 20 JUDGE MARTIN: Doing good. How are you 21 doing? 22 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We have Judge 23 Martin before us this evening who seeks the 24 position of Administrative law Court, Seat Number 25 6. 0364 1 Do you have someone that you'd like to 2 introduce to us? 3 JUDGE MARTIN: Yes, sir. This is my 4 wife Cindy Martin. She's here with me today. 5 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: We're pleased 6 to have you with us, ma'am. 7 If you would, at this time, Judge 8 Martin, raise your right hand to be sworn. 9 (Candidate sworn.) 10 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 11 sir. 12 The Judicial Merit Selection Commission 13 has thoroughly investigated your qualifications for 14 service on the bench. Our inquires primarily 15 focused on nine evaluative criteria which have 16 included a survey of the bench and bar, a thorough 17 study of your application materials, verification 18 of your compliance with state ethics law, the 19 search of any newspaper articles in which your name 20 may have appeared, a study of any previous 21 screenings, and a check for economic conflicts of 22 interest. 23 We don't have any affidavits in 24 opposition to your election, nor are there any 25 witnesses here to testify. 0365 1 Do you have a brief opening statement 2 you'd like to make? 3 JUDGE MARTIN: I'd just like to say I'm 4 honored to be here. I look forward to your 5 consideration, and I'd be very honored and humble 6 to serve as Administrative Law Court judge. 7 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 8 sir. 9 If you would, answer any questions our 10 counsel Ms. Goldsmith might have for you. 11 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman and 12 members of the Commission, I have a few procedural 13 matters to take care of with Judge Martin. 14 Judge Martin, you have before you the 15 personal data questionnaire you submitted as part 16 of your application. Are there any amendments that 17 you would like to make at this time to your PDQ? 18 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 19 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman, I would 20 like to ask that Judge Martin's personal data 21 questionnaire be entered as an exhibit into the 22 hearing record. 23 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: It will be 24 done at this point in the transcript without 25 objection. 0366 1 (EXH. 47, Personal Data Questionnaire 2 and Amendment of Mr. Walter Rutledge Martin, 3 admitted.) 4 MS. GOLDSMITH: Judge Martin, you also 5 have before you the sworn statement you provided 6 with detailed answers to over 30 questions 7 regarding judicial conduct, statutory 8 qualifications, office administration, and 9 temperament. Are there any amendments that you 10 would like to make at this time to your sworn 11 statement? 12 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 13 MS. GOLDSMITH: Mr. Chairman, I would 14 like to ask that Judge Martin's sworn statement be 15 entered as an exhibit into the hearing record. 16 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Without 17 objection. 18 (EXH. 48, Sworn Statement of Walter 19 Rutledge Martin, admitted.) 20 MS. GOLDSMITH: Just one last 21 procedural matter. I note for the record that 22 based on the testimony contained in Judge Martin's 23 PDQ which has been included in the record with his 24 consent, that Judge Martin meets the statutory 25 requirements for the position regarding age, 0367 1 residence, and years of practice. 2 Judge Martin, why do you want to serve 3 as an Administrative Law Court judge? 4 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, I've been a judge 5 now for two and a half years as a magistrate judge 6 in Greenwood County, and I take a lot of 7 satisfaction in the work that I do and I believe 8 that I'm in a position where I -- my abilities and 9 temperament and et cetera fit the job of being a 10 judge, and I'd like to take that to -- to a higher 11 level to deal with more complex cases and tougher 12 cases and cases where sometimes there's great -- 13 greater public significance and sometimes not, but 14 I think as a general rule the cases would be more 15 complicated at the -- at the next level as 16 administrative court judge -- law court judge. 17 I believe -- I do believe that my 18 frequent contact with pro se litigants at the 19 magistrate level would be of benefit to me as 20 Administrative Law Court judge because 21 Administrative Law Court judges like magistrate 22 judges often do have to deal with pro se litigants. 23 I have appeared in the Administrative 24 Law Court doing the contested cases for SLED while 25 I was a assistant attorney general. Additionally, 0368 1 I do have an advanced law degree in taxation, and 2 taxation is an area that sometimes it's at issue in 3 the Administrative Law Court. 4 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 5 Can you explain to the Commission how 6 you feel your legal and professional experience 7 thus far will assist you in being an effective 8 judge. 9 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, I answered a lot 10 of that in my -- in the previous answer, but I'm -- 11 as I said, I have been a judge for two and a half 12 years, so I know the difficulties -- like all jobs 13 it's tougher than it looks. If you've never done 14 it, there are a lot of difficulties that you 15 encounter, and it's challenging to -- sometimes 16 it's challenging to be courteous, to maintain 17 discipline in the courtroom, to -- to direct the 18 proceedings and to make tough decisions. And 19 that's the challenge every day, and it is something 20 that I have been doing for two and a half years. 21 As I said in my previous answer, I have 22 experience dealing with pro se -- or litigants 23 where it's unrepresented by counsel, and that would 24 also be of benefit to me serving as an 25 Administrative Law Court judge, and as I said, I 0369 1 have appeared in the Administrative Law Court 2 representing SLED over there doing -- that would be 3 concealed weapon permit cases, cases with -- 4 dealing with public -- or, excuse me, private 5 investigators, also with security guard permits. 6 And also all of my -- really my legal 7 work for the last 15 years has all dealt with 8 litigation, and that's what -- what happens in the 9 Administrative Law Court is litigation. So even 10 though I wouldn't have experience in some areas of 11 the -- of the substantive law that the 12 Administrative Law Court judges deals with, I've 13 dealt with litigation, rulings on evidence, what 14 comes in and what doesn't come in. There's 15 different procedural rules going on in a courtroom, 16 and that -- that's the same in every courtroom. 17 Those rules are basically the same. There's some 18 variations between different types of court. 19 And, you know, I was -- I was a public 20 defender. I've been a prosecutor. I did criminal 21 appeals for three and a half years, so I read 22 mounds and mounds of transcripts giving me a lot of 23 experience dealing with courtroom proceedings, and 24 I talked to Chief Judge Anderson as well as Judge 25 Matthews before I decided to run and talked to them 0370 1 about whether -- whether my background would suit 2 me to be on the Administrative Law Court, and they 3 were both of the opinion it was based -- based on 4 the fact that I have a lot of experience in the 5 courtroom and in various capacities. 6 And they both pointed out to me that 7 it's extremely difficult, if not impossible, for 8 somebody to come in into that position being 9 familiar with all the substantive areas of law that 10 an Administrative Law Court has -- judge has to 11 deal with. I think I counted 32 different agencies 12 or types of agencies that bring cases into the 13 Administrative Law Court. And it would be 14 virtually impossible for somebody to have a 15 background in each and every one of those 32 areas 16 of administrative law. 17 And Judge Anderson said it's going to 18 take -- whoever comes in here it's going to take 19 them six months to get to the point where they're 20 comfortable dealing with all the different types of 21 cases that come in front of the Administrative Law 22 Court judge. And for those reasons I believe that 23 I do have a background that well suits me to be an 24 effective Administrative Law Court judge. 25 MS. GOLDSMITH: Although you address 0371 1 this in your sworn statement, could you please 2 explain to the members of the Commission what you 3 think is the appropriate demeanor for a judge. 4 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, a judge has to be 5 courteous and firm at the same time, which is -- 6 which is often tough. It's a lot tougher than it 7 looks from the outside, but it can be done and it 8 should be done. It must be done. It's a difficult 9 balancing act. The judge has to treat everybody 10 with dignity, but at the same time the judge has to 11 control the courtroom. Those are both demanded by 12 the rules of ethics. 13 You have one judge -- one rule says be 14 courteous and then the next rule says the judge has 15 the duty to maintain control of the courtroom, 16 and -- but that's what a judge has got to do. It 17 can be done, so it should be done. It must be 18 done. 19 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 20 Although you talked about this briefly 21 just a minute ago, the last time you regularly 22 practiced before the Administrative Law Court was 23 as an assistant attorney general, and that was from 24 2001 to 2005. Can you explain to the Commission 25 what kind of work you did before the Administrative 0372 1 Law Court and how you believed that helps to 2 qualify you as an Administrative Law Court judge. 3 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, I represented 4 SLED. I was an assistant attorney general. I did 5 represent SLED in the Administrative Law Court. 6 Those were all contested cases. They were not 7 appeals -- they were not Administrative Law Court 8 appeals. They were all contested cases with live 9 witnesses. Just basically the same thing as a 10 bench trial in any other court. Of course no 11 juries in Administrative Law Court. 12 And SLED would deny somebody a 13 concealed weapon permit or private eye permit or a 14 security guard permit. I would go over there and 15 represent SLED and try the case and interview 16 witness and subpoena witnesses and be examining 17 those witnesses and cross-examine the applicant. 18 And, you know, some of those were seven or eight 19 witnesses cases, and so a lot of them -- most of 20 them were one witness cases or two witness cases. 21 Some of them were more involved where you, you 22 know, you might have seven or eight witnesses, and 23 they can be basically like trying a case in General 24 Sessions but except for there was no jury there. 25 So that makes -- that made things go faster. 0373 1 But I've been in that courtroom, and -- 2 well, they have a couple courtrooms. But I've been 3 in those courtrooms and tried cases over there. I 4 know what it looks like, and I have a comfort level 5 there, and I think having a comfort level over 6 there would help me hit the ground running in the 7 Administrative Law Court. 8 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 9 Just a few more questions for you. 10 Have you sought or received the pledge 11 of any legislator prior to today? 12 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 13 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you sought or have 14 you been offered a conditional pledge of any 15 support of any legislator pending the outcome of 16 your screening? 17 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 18 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you asked any 19 third parties to contact members of the General 20 Assembly on your behalf? 21 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 22 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you contacted any 23 members of this Commission? 24 JUDGE MARTIN: No, ma'am. 25 MS. GOLDSMITH: Do you understand -- 0374 1 JUDGE MARTIN: Excuse me. I -- I 2 believe when I first started thinking about 3 running, I contacted Senator Nicholson simply to 4 tell him I was running, not to tell him that I 5 was -- I did not ask him for a pledge or anything, 6 but he is my senate -- my local senator. I 7 contacted him as a courtesy to let him know that I 8 was running. Of course Senator Nicholson was not 9 on this Commission at this time. 10 MS. GOLDSMITH: Thank you. 11 Do you understand that you are 12 prohibited from seeking a pledge or commitment 13 until 48 hours after the formal release of the 14 Commission's report? 15 JUDGE MARTIN: Yes. 16 MS. GOLDSMITH: Have you reviewed the 17 Commission's guidelines on pledging? 18 JUDGE MARTIN: Yes. 19 MS. GOLDSMITH: As a follow-up, are you 20 aware of the penalties for violating the pledging 21 rules, and that it, that it's a misdemeanor and 22 upon conviction the violator must be fined not more 23 than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than 90 days? 24 JUDGE MARTIN: Yes. 25 MS. GOLDSMITH: I would note that the 0375 1 Piedmont Citizens Committee found Judge Martin 2 qualified in the areas of Constitutional 3 qualifications, ethical fitness, professional and 4 academic ability, character, reputation, 5 experience, and judicial temperament. The 6 Committee found Judge Martin well qualified in the 7 areas of physical health and mental stability. 8 Finally, the Committee noted that Judge Martin is 9 qualified for the office he is seeking. The 10 decision of the Committee was unanimous. 11 I would note for the record that any 12 concerns raised in the investigation of Judge 13 Martin were incorporated into the questioning of 14 him this evening. 15 And, Mr. Chairman, I have no further 16 questions. 17 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Does any 18 member of the Commission have any questions for 19 Judge Martin? Senator Knotts. 20 SENATOR KNOTTS: Judge Martin, I notice 21 that you said on question number 16 about your 22 appearance in various courts. You said while you 23 was assistant solicitor you appeared in General 24 Sessions court daily while court was in session. 25 "As a magistrate I typically appeared daily Monday 0376 1 through Thursday and sometimes on Friday." 2 JUDGE MARTIN: Yes, sir. 3 SENATOR KNOTTS: Why sometimes on 4 Friday? Why not Monday through Friday? 5 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, we don't have -- 6 we don't always have court scheduled on Friday. We 7 have -- and I don't do the scheduling. Our chief 8 magistrate does the scheduling. On Friday mornings 9 we have usually either the Department of Revenue or 10 the -- and the -- not the highway patrol, but the 11 branch of the highway -- the transport police. 12 They write tickets for Friday, usually for Friday 13 mornings. 14 Now, a lot of times I'll schedule 15 restraining orders on Friday afternoon because I 16 know nothing else will be scheduled at that time, 17 and that's a convenient time for me to hear 18 restraining orders on Friday afternoon. And if we 19 have jury -- if it's a jury trial week, we might -- 20 we would have jury trials -- usually have jury 21 trials scheduled for Fridays. I've not had a 22 Friday jury trial, but I'm there -- I'm not out 23 fishing or playing golf on Fridays, I can assure 24 you. I don't -- 25 SENATOR KNOTTS: Do you have a backlog 0377 1 in your magistrate? 2 JUDGE MARTIN: We -- actually we did 3 when I got there. We -- and we had a different 4 chief magistrate. I'm not the chief magistrate. 5 We had cases going back to 1999, jury trials, and I 6 think our oldest jury trial request is about 2004 7 or '5 now, so we -- I know in the last six months 8 we've -- we've disposed of more jury trials than 9 we've gotten requests for, so we're moving -- we're 10 moving in the right direction. So -- 11 SENATOR KNOTTS: And you don't -- 12 JUDGE MARTIN: And I attribute that 13 to -- to my chief magistrate scheduling the cases, 14 and I'm certainly willing to be there at any time 15 to try them, Saturdays included. 16 SENATOR KNOTTS: And jury trials dating 17 back to 2004 or '5 and it's 2009, almost '10 and 18 y'all still take off on Fridays? 19 JUDGE MARTIN: I -- I don't -- no, I 20 never leave on Fridays. 21 SENATOR KNOTTS: Huh? 22 JUDGE MARTIN: I never leave on Friday. 23 SENATOR KNOTTS: Well, you got in 24 here -- it says "sometimes on Friday." 25 JUDGE MARTIN: Well, if I'm not in the 0378 1 courtroom, I'm in my office, so I don't -- I'm 2 either in my office -- if the -- if the judge -- 3 chief magistrate schedules a jury trial for me on 4 Friday, I'm out there trying it. 5 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Any further 6 questions of Mr. Martin? 7 There being none, again, we'd like to 8 thank you and Ms. Martin for being here tonight. 9 And this concludes this portion of your 10 screening process which is the public hearing 11 portion, and -- but as you know, the record remains 12 open until such time as we issue the report. And 13 then in 48 hours after the report is initially 14 issued it becomes a final report of this 15 Commission, but up until that time we can reconvene 16 and -- your public hearing and recall you to ask 17 more questions. But I don't think that's going to 18 happen, but nevertheless it could. 19 And I would remind you about the 20 48-hour rule and remind you to remind anyone else 21 that might be advocating on your behalf about the 22 48-hour rule. 23 And with that, again, we'd like to 24 thank you and hope you have a safe trip back to 25 Greenwood. 0379 1 JUDGE MARTIN: I appreciate y'all 2 listening to me. 3 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: Thank you, 4 sir. 5 (Candidate excused.) 6 REPRESENTATIVE DELLENEY: With there 7 being nothing else, we'll be adjourned. 8 (The hearings adjourned at 7:03 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0380 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 I, Yvonne R. Bohannon, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, and Notary 3 Public for the State of South Carolina at Large, do hereby certify: 4 That the foregoing transcript was taken 5 before me on the date and at the time and location stated on page 1 of this transcript; that all 6 statements made on the record at the time of the proceeding were recorded stenographically by me and 7 were thereafter transcribed; that the foregoing proceeding as typed is a true, accurate and 8 complete record of the proceeding to the best of my ability. 9 I further certify that I am neither 10 related to nor counsel for any party to the cause pending or interested in the events thereof. 11 Witness my hand, I have hereunto 12 affixed my official seal November 16, 2009, at Columbia, Richland County, South Carolina. 13 14 ---------------------------- 15 Yvonne R. Bohannon Registered Merit 16 Reporter, CRR My Commission expires 17 April 11, 2015 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0381 1 I N D E X 2 Page 3 CANDIDATE 4 The Honorable Steven H. John 5 5 The Honorable Alvin D. Johnson 15 6 The Honorable Jane Dowling Fender 35 7 Dennis M. Gmerek 45 8 Vicki Johnson Snelgrove 57 9 The Honorable DeAndrea Benjamin 82 10 Stevens B. Elliott 93 11 Lillie C. Hart 111 12 Gwendlyne Young Smalls 124 13 Phillip K. Sinclair 145 14 The Honorable Usha J. Bridges 159 15 Catherine Carr Christophillis 175 16 Harry L. "Don" Phillips, Jr. 186 17 William Marsh Robertson 198 18 The Honorable Michael Don Stokes 214 19 The Honorable David Glenn Guyton 244 20 Tony M. Jones 284 21 Angela M. Killian 299 22 Latonya D. Edwards 315 23 The Honorable B. Keith Griffin 324 24 (Candidates continued.) 25 0382 1 2 Christopher McGowan Holmes 338 3 Sebastian Phillip Lenski 352 4 The Honorable Walter Rutledge Martin 363 5 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 380 6 7 E X H I B I T S 8 1 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 7 Steven H. John 9 2 Sworn Statement of Steven H. John 8 10 3 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. Alvin D. 17 11 Johnson 12 4 Sworn Statement of Alvin Dean Johnson 18 13 5 Personal Data Questionnaire of Jane Dowling 38 Fender 14 6 Sworn Statement of Jane Dowling Fender 38 15 7 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. Dennis M. 48 16 Gmerek 17 8 Sworn Statement of Dennis M. Gmerek 49 18 9 Personal Data Questionnaire of Ms. Vicki Johnson 59 Snelgrove 19 10 Sworn Statement of Vicki Johnson Snelgrove 60 20 11 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of 84 21 Mrs. DeAndrea Gist Benjamin 22 12 Sworn Statement of DeAndrea Gist Benjamin 85 23 13 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 98 Stevens B. Elliott 24 (Exhibits Continued.) 25 0383 1 14 Sworn Statement of Stevens Bultman Elliott 99 2 17 Personal Data Questionnaire of Ms. Lillie 114 Currington Hart 3 18 Sworn Statement of Lillie Currington Hart 115 4 19 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Ms. 127 5 Gwendlyne Young Smalls 6 20 Sworn Statement of Gwendlyne Young Smalls 127 7 21 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 147 Phillip K. Sinclair 8 22 Sworn Statement of Phillip K. Sinclair 148 9 23 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Ms. 160 10 Usha J. Bridges 11 24 Sworn Statement of Usha J. Bridges 161 12 25 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Ms. 177 Catherine C. Christophillis 13 26 Sworn Statement of Catherine C. Christophillis 178 14 27 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 188 15 Harry L. "Don" Phillips, Jr. 16 28 Sworn Statement of Harry L. Phillips, 189 Jr.--"Don," 17 29 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. William Marsh 200 18 Robertson 19 30 Sworn Statement of William Marsh Robertson 201 20 31 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. Michael Don 216 Stokes 21 32 Sworn Statement of Michael Don Stokes 217 22 33 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 248 23 David Glenn Guyton 24 34 Sworn Statement of David Glenn Guyton 248 25 (Exhibits continued.) 0384 1 35 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 286 Tony M. Jones 2 36 Sworn Statement of Tony M. Jones 287 3 37 Personal Data Questionnaire of Ms. Angela M. 301 4 Killian 5 38 Sworn Statement of Angela M. Killian 301 6 39 Personal Data Questionnaire of Ms. Latonya 317 Dilligard Edwards 7 40 Sworn Statement of Latonya Dilligard Edwards 318 8 41 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. B. Keith 327 9 Griffin 10 42 Sworn Statement of B. Keith Griffin 328 11 43 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. Christopher 343 McGowan Holmes 12 44 Sworn Statement of Christopher McGowan Holmes 344 13 45 Personal Data Questionnaire of Mr. S. Phillip 354 14 Lenski 15 46 Sworn Statement of S. Phillip Lenski 355 16 47 Personal Data Questionnaire and Amendment of Mr. 366 Walter Rutledge Martin 17 48 Sworn Statement of Walter Rutledge Martin 366 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25