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Secondly, I serve on the board at Conway Hospital, the Foundation Board. I have seen what giving can -- can mean to an institution. The hospital, they get in hundreds of dollars from people that doesn't have any place to put their money. A lot of them don't have families. A lot of them never have anything to do with them.

So we need to get into the business of saying to people it's important that you give to the future of this state and the future of this state is in education. So I would urge alumni giving. I would also urge foundation. And, firstly, I hope it is that the state of South Carolina does not feel that they need to cut education funding to the -- to that lowest level.
Q. Thank you, sir.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q. Mr. Williams, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board?
A. I'm a student of South Carolina State. I attended South Carolina State. My wife, I met her there. We were classmates. We started working together, we retired together. I retired as a high school principal. She retired as a second grade teacher. My sister-in-law, I met her. She went to school there. My son went to school there. He's a funeral director.

As a high school principal, some of the things that I learned at South Carolina State, I was able to do in Horry County. I was the first black, Afro-American high school principal in Horry County. As a matter of fact, I built a school over there they call North Myrtle Beach High School, right off from Bay Street golf course.

And one of the programs I put in that school which really and truly helped is what I learned at South Carolina State. I put in an ROTC unit, a naval ROTC. The discipline -- the academics went up and the discipline went down. Consequently as a result all over Horry County they have ROTC programs all over. It's basically what I had learned at South Carolina State, what I learned in summer camp.

When I retired in '86 or in '87, I went to work at Coastal Carolina University under Ron Ingle and I was director of minority students. Those minority students that I was in charge of, we have what we call Afro-Am, and I would say to them how important it was to go to class, to do your work. Those that were deficient, and there were quite a number deficient, and the reason being, a lot of those kids they would come to school, stay two years and they would ship off to U.S.C. where their diplomas came from. So, they only wanted to stay two years at Coastal and then they -- the program is changed now. They have a four-year institution.

But I do think it is South Carolina State University like Coastal, like Clemson, it should be a school for all people in the state of South Carolina. And since I've been sitting here listening to some of the people that attended Coastal and the ones that -- on the board there, I do know a little bit about Coastal.

Coastal is populated, not a whole lot by the local people, but a lot by people from the coal country. They come from Buffalo, New York. They come from Pennsylvania. They come from other places. And they do enjoy the beach. Some of them might not find that education is not -- so they might take a class in tennis and golf and swimming and so forth and so on. They might not think it is as important to get out of school in four years because, you know, they're kind of enjoying themselves.

Coastal is a good school, one of the highest rates of graduates that come from Coastal in business management. In E. Craigwell (ph) School of Business -- well, I'm not supposed to be talking about that. I'm

But I would like to tell you what I know and what I would like to do and what I would like to see happen at South Carolina State University. I would like to take it and help it.
Q. Thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
SENATOR WILSON: Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, Senator.
RE-EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q. I would like to thank you for citing the importance of JROTC programs. I think they are very helpful and something that needs to be known across the United States is that at South Carolina State University, they have one of the finest ROTC units in all of America, and it produces as many graduates as any institution in America. And it's just been a real unheralded, but very positive and successful ROTC source for officers for our American military.
A. Well, it has really helped. The two years when we were there and the two years we spent as officers training others, it has really helped.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT: Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Inabinett.
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT: May I just add, South Carolina State through its ROTC program has produced several generals in the military. That's a plus.
MR. WILLIAMS: We were in school together, so he knows.
THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir.
A. Thank you.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN: Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, sir.
REPRESENTATIVE LITTLEJOHN: The House is in session. What are our plans?
THE CHAIRMAN: The Speaker said earlier it's all right to run on through. Next we have Mr. Arnold Collins. Yes, sir, Mr. Collins, would you raise your right hand please, sir.
ARNOLD COLLINS, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
MR. COLLINS - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q. Mr. Collins, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A. None.

My son graduates from South Carolina State in three weeks, the five-year program. He's going to be a junior officer at NationsBank because he worked in the corporation arena for a year, so he'll have an edge I think on those students who work in the corporate program, especially in the -- I mean the co-op program in the corporate arena. They'll have an edge in getting employment when they're out of school.

Not only that, it teaches them certain things. It gives them an inside look at a corporate life prior to graduating from school. So again I believe in minimizing taxpayers dollars. So in certain programs, I think they should be four years, but in some programs I prefer a five-year program, I want to be honest with you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions of the gentleman? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER: Yes.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q. Mr. Collins, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board?
A. Senator, to be honest with you, I've been asked by certain -- some interest -- some individuals to apply for this position. I had the pleasure of serving on South Carolina State College board from 1983 to 1989. I was appointed by the former Governor Riley.

Then the chairman of the board, I.S. Leevy Johnson appointed me as chairman of the finance committee. I worked intimately with the auditing department and the fiscal department, and we wanted to see all the revenues on the table. We wanted to see all the programs expenses by line item, and I was very instrumental in that. In the year that I left the board, South Carolina State had an unqualified opinion from it's auditors. I want to go back to continue that, that legacy of watching the numbers.

Attending some of the games and meeting some of the old colleagues there, they were telling me we sure miss you there watching those numbers, so I've got the time and I want to go back and use my professional -- my fiscal background to see what I can and especially in these times when federal funds and other funds are being diminished.
Q. How important are affirmative action goals for you for South Carolina State?
A. I think affirmative action is very, very important. I was instrumental in working along with the school back in the eighties to get a diverse group of people. I think it's very, very important. CBS has seen the wisdom of having -- having racial diversity. I think it's a thing to do.

I think South Carolina State needs to do it and I'll be very, very actively involved in seeing that a diverse group of people attend, teach and show their leadership at the school, because when our kids leave there and go to the world of work, they will need -- they will need the personality and the -- and the -- and experiences that a -- that a multiracial makeup provides. So I think it's the way of the future and I think it's right and I like to do things that are right.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Collins. Next we have Seat 4. Our first candidate is Doctor James L. Bullard. Let me swear you in, Doctor Bullard. If you'd raise your right hand.
DOCTOR JAMES L. BULLARD, having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
DOCTOR BULLARD - EXAMINATION BY THE CHAIRMAN:
Q. Doctor Bullard, do you have any health related problems that the screening committee should be made aware of that would prevent you from serving on the board in a full capacity?
A. No, sir.

So since being at South Carolina State along with being CEO of Today's Vender System (ph) which is a corporation that I am responsible for the day to day operation of, we certainly know the importance of budgetary kinds of restraints. On having assessed the current status of affairs at South Carolina State, we have been able to be instrumental in working with the president and other board members moving towards the establishment of foundations, and now we're beginning to look at the possibility of endowed chairs and also encouraging and trying to find various ways to get the alumni association to be more supportive of the university.

Further, we have spoken in a very kind way and set some goals to encourage the faculty to continue and compete more vigorously in the area of research and also to work towards the acquisition of grants. And as the chairperson of the Academic Affairs Committee on which I now serve, one of the things that I am working with the chairman of the board and the president even as I speak is to look at that issue of tenure.

You know, tenure throughout the history of the university has sort of been a sacred cow if you will. I'm not so sure that as we stand on the threshold of the 21st century, we can continue that endeavor of tenure as

Also, I'm very concerned about student services and making sure that the necessary support services are there for students. We do know that running the university after having been there is an august task to say the least and policy development is -- is something that we do not take lightly and having for -- training in that area, I do believe I bring a lot of strength in that area to the university. That's in brief.

Now, as far -- as far as affirmative action is concerned, I know that and I believe very strongly that we should be sensitive to all mankind irregardless of their ethnic enclave or their nationality, creed, sex, gender or whatever. And I know that that's the right thing.

At South Carolina State, I think without doubt the past two years that I've been there, we've seen inroads being made. There are faculty, students and not enough diversity, but there is a good bit of diversity at South Carolina State, but we certainly work each day, each hour to make sure that we begin to bridge the gap, so that we can live in a world more at peace and harmony.

The only way that man can coexist, and we can find a sense of peace and comfort within ourselves is knowing that we can be all that we can be and that is for every person regardless of his race, creed, color, or gender, sex.
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Giese.
SENATOR GIESE: Mr. Chairman.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GIESE:
Q. If I could follow up on that just a bit. You've been on the board two years?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Doctor Bullard, could you be specific and tell me a couple of affirmative action programs you have in action now on the campus to attract white students to your campus?
A. Yes, sir. Some may perceive it preferential towards whites students, but I don't. I think it's only right because South Carolina State University is a state university, and it's created for its citizenry. I happen to know firsthand that white students who are, or not just white, but any other minority student other than black that would be at South Carolina State, that they would be given special attention, so that we might be able to

We know that we live in a society that is multicultural and just all of one thing, too much of anything is just not good. So we purport and we know that society at large is mixed. There are apples and oranges and carrots and grapefruits and whatever, and in order for our students to coexist and to exist and be all they can be and compete competitively, we know that as soon as they can get that exposure to coexist with others, it's in their best interest.
Q. But can you specific -- do you have any special scholarship programs restricted only --
A. Oh, yes.
Q. -- to white students to --
A. They are not restricted as such to just white students, but a white student may receive preferential treatment if all of the indices in a particular situation are the same.
SENATOR WILSON; Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRMAN: Senator Wilson.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR WILSON:
Q. What would you do to promote a four-year graduation rate at South Carolina State University?
A. Attrition is paramount and we find that it's not just at South Carolina State institution or university, but we find that attrition all over these United States is very important. I say this for the reason that we know that we are beginning to enter a period where there will be a decline in the number of students who are attending four-year institutions because during the period of the seventies, from seventies to '85, there was a decline for those of us that follow the demographics in population growth in the number of families who were having children. So we're about -- we're on the threshold of seeing for the next, if you will, five or six years a decrease in the number of warm bodies that would be occupying higher educational institutions.

So, in the -- as we begin to deal with attrition and we look at the number of students that are available, we want to attract those that are most capable and able. And how we maintain doing that is by providing the support services, the counseling services, to attract them and once they're there to try and meet their needs. Not necessarily by putting them out. .

If you look at South Carolina State University, the one thing that is very, very positive about it is that the graduation rate has been fairly high. And that is because of support services that are in place. And we should

They understand, I understand, you understand that when they come, they are not the persons you want them to be. They come with the rough edges and we try to hone them into becoming productive adults.
Q. Thank you very much.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY REPRESENTATIVE INABINETT:
Q. The same question as it relates to funding --
THE CHAIRMAN: Mr. Inabinett.
Q. -- in light of proposed decreases?
A. I think I understand your question. I have to take the outsider's view, but I would explore all the -- and come up with some creative solutions to this pressing problem, individual funding, corporate funding. The list is -- the list is unknown. We haven't been very successful because we have not explored these avenues on a continuous basis over the years, so I would be a part of that group of people who would want to explore the avenues to see how far we can go because how far we can go to complement the state dollars.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions? Senator Glover.
SENATOR GLOVER: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY SENATOR GLOVER:
Q. Mr. Allen, why do you want to serve on South Carolina State's board, and how important are the affirmative action goals for the university to you?
A. May I answer the affirmative action first? I should hope that all of our institutions would become standard bearers among -- all of our institutions of higher learning will become standard bearers and get this thing behind us once and for all. I'm particularly interested that South Carolina State would be the foremost standard bearer in doing this with enough style and enough class that others would want to copy how we do it.

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